Yamcha was the brains for the majority of Dragon Ball, leading the team and making the plans. I believe it was him who came up with the strategy for Puar and Upa to beat the vampire dude at Baba's palace, which is pretty spectacular considering said vampire dude humiliated Krillin, who was hundreds of times stronger and faster than Puar and Upa put together. And his Spirit Ball technique took a ton of ingenuity to develop and master.Noah wrote:nickzambuto wrote:So in conclusion, Vegeta takes Piccolo out. He gets inside his head, uses his weaknesses against him, and as soon as the Prince of all Saiyans gets his opening, Piccolo will become ashes. Tactically a better opponent for Vegeta would actually be Krillin, or maybe even Yamcha. I would say that Vegeta's only weakness is his ki attacks aren't very creative, but I forgive him for that since they're some of the most powerful out of any character in the series, and he puts them to excellent use
Good analysis, dude... But what make you think that Yamcha or Krillin would be better opponents for Vegeta than Piccolo?
Meanwhile Krillin is consistently one of the most clever and pragmatic tacticians around. Check out his fight with Goku at the 22nd Budokai.
You're generalizing things pretty heavily. Vegeta is the Prince of all Saiyans, leader of a warrior race and an elite member of Freeza's army. His strategic talents were on full display since the very beginning. He was the one leading Nappa and Raditz, it was his plan to use the Dragon Balls to wish for immortality as a way to combat Freeza, and he regularly ordered Nappa around during the battle. For instance, he realized killing Piccolo would make the Dragon Balls disappear, and stopped Nappa just in the nick of time. Likewise when Nappa was confident in taking Krillin's Destructo Disk, Vegeta immediately saw through the ruse that Krillin was playing and ordered Nappa to dodge. Refresh yourself on the arc, Vegeta was consistently leading and making plans. Against Goku when Vegeta was overpowered, he wasn't yet defeated because he was able to manipulate Goku into taking the Galick Gun by using the Earth against him, meaning he already knew Goku's mental weaknesses just after interacting with him for a few moments, and later on he predicted Krillin's entire plan to remove his tail just as soon as he saw Gohan fly over.Kamiccolo9 wrote:I'm curious as to where the perception of Vegeta's "strategical insight" comes from. It certainly wasn't on display in the Saiyan Arc when his whole plan was to kill all the things, somehow find the Dragon Balls, and profit. In the Freeza Arc, he just either ran away from people stronger than him, or got his ass kicked by people stronger than him, because he's too full of himself to bother sensing the guy in front of him. In the Cell Arc, he was a fucking idiot (he "psychologically manipulated" Cell? What? If anything, Cell's the one who made a full out of Vegeta!), and in the Buu Arc, he turned a foolproof curbstomp by Gohan into a risky plan involving himself, Goku, and Buu risking their lives on a plan that could have been easily replaced by letting Gohan break wind in the general direction of the guy they were fighting, and kickstarted the whole arc by being an impatient ass who couldn't bother with wrapping the stuff on Babidi's ship up quickly.
Vegeta's "strategical prowess" isn't "underappreciated." It's nonexistent.
The Namek arc was a constant display of strategic prowess on Vegeta's part by biding his time, playing his cards right, and gradually whittling down superior forces. He used every advantage he had to brilliant effect, including Freeza's inability to detect ki. It was a four-way struggle for the Dragon Balls between Freeza's army, the Namekians, the Dragon Team, and Vegeta all on his own, and in the end, Vegeta was the winner and nearly got his immortality, if only the the Guru didn't suddenly die.
Against the Androids, Vegeta was smart enough to psychologically manipulate Dr. Gero into running away, when in reality Gero had the power to crush Vegeta easily. This is Gero, the man smart enough to build androids who surpass Freeza in power. Outsmarted by the militaristic strategist supreme that is Vegeta. It was Vegeta who initially conceived the idea to reach a level beyond Super Saiyan, and like back against Goku, he knew Cell's mental weaknesses and successfully manipulated him into taking his strongest attack head-on, after being overpowered.
The Boo arc is my favorite. Vegeta had been looking forward to his rematch with Goku this whole time, and on Babidi's ship, as soon as he realized he was still inferior, he began concocting a plan to surpass his rival. Unbeknownst to everyone, he somehow knew the correct mental buttons to push on Dabura with only his mere words, so that Dabura would go back to Babidi and say the exact right things to make Babidi decide to take control of Vegeta and empower him. All the while nobody even knew what Vegeta was doing. That's brilliant.
Yes not wishing for Gohan was stupid, but not on Vegeta's part, it's called PIS. For the sake of the plot Vegeta had to work with what he had, and he worked phenomenally well.
