"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Exline]

I am curious about how Kale's personality will be worked into the manga, so far so good with making her more of a character who is a stoic watchdog and servant to Caulifla but apathetic to everyone else around her as opposed to being just insecure (with no backstory basis). It being under Caulifla's own nose makes a lot of room for development if their relationship wasn't already established from the start like it is in the anime, but progressively as things get in between them in order to get Kale angry. What will trigger her Berserk transformation? I don't like the scenario of Goku just "training" Caulifla and yelling at her to leave, because its a battle royal, she is supposed to gang up on whomever she wants. That was just another dumb thing from the anime.

Yeah that scene did feel really awkward. I didn't mind it tho. Her reason for turning Berserk was stupid, but it was so stupid that I liked it, same with Broly's reasoning lmao. It's odd and questionable and different from the typical rivalry set ups.

I really hope it's set up that Kale already knows about the form and even hints it to her opponent, as if she were a female version of Bruce Banner: "You won't like me when I'm angry..", then she gets that trigger when shes backed against the wall with no one to help. It'd be interesting to see her lose control as well like the anime did.

The quote explains the same thing that has always been happening in the manga. It has differences but nothing big enough to actually change the scope of the story.
The elimination order is the same but looks like who they get eliminated by might be slightly different.

It's speculated that it's the same tbh. We really shouldn't be lowering our expectations that low, especially for the manga.

The quote states that there was an original draft, hinting that a new draft was made afterwards. Herm's translation even states Caulifla and Kale were not even in the original draft either. Things are subject to change.

Dude, people do this every month expecting major changes when it's never been that. Toyotaro still has to tell the same story, he's not making wild changes, just enough that makes it interesting without ruining a summary. The big major moments are always the same

Pretty sure it will all lead to another U7 vs U11 round, I'm not saying that won't happen. All i'm saying is that the Elimination Order is subject to change. You don't have to assume that when the outline never stated "THE ELIMINATION ORDER IS SET". You're pretty much basing this on the fact that just cause we saw Krillin get out first, and Tien second, that the order is set in stone. Same thing with that ending where everyone believe Vegeta was gonna get out.

And if you read what the outline states, it claims there was an original draft and that certain characters weren't even on that draft. Meaning.. revisions have been and could still be made.

Frost eliminating Krillin and Tien changes the story completely. It forces Goku to save Roshi from Frost rather than the goons from U4 and him being the one to attack U9 instead of Goku and Vegeta. Any change by Toyotaro should be considered major at this point. The scope of the story isn't who gets eliminated throughout the tournament. It's things like Kefla appearing, Ultra Instinct transformation, Jiren vs. Goku, etc. The elimination order for the lesser 5 of Team Universe 7 may not even matter. You can't claim it's going to remain the same if the outline never downright says it is.

[OLKv3]

Yeah that scene did feel really awkward. I didn't mind it tho. Her reason for turning Berserk was stupid, but it was so stupid that I liked it, same with Broly's reasoning lmao. It's odd and questionable and different from the typical rivalry set ups.

I really hope it's set up that Kale already knows about the form and even hints it to her opponent, as if she were a female version of Bruce Banner: "You won't like me when I'm angry..", then she gets that trigger when shes backed against the wall with no one to help. It'd be interesting to see her lose control as well like the anime did.



It's speculated that it's the same tbh. We really shouldn't be lowering our expectations that low, especially for the manga.

The quote states that there was an original draft, hinting that a new draft was made afterwards. Herm's translation even states Caulifla and Kale were not even in the original draft either. Things are subject to change.

Dude, people do this every month expecting major changes when it's never been that. Toyotaro still has to tell the same story, he's not making wild changes, just enough that makes it interesting without ruining a summary. The big major moments are always the same

Pretty sure it will all lead to another U7 vs U11 round, I'm not saying that won't happen. All i'm saying is that the Elimination Order is subject to change. You don't have to assume that when the outline never stated "THE ELIMINATION ORDER IS SET". You're pretty much basing this on the fact that just cause we saw Krillin get out first, and Tien second, that the order is set in stone. Same thing with that ending where everyone believe Vegeta was gonna get out.

And if you read what the outline states, it claims there was an original draft and that certain characters weren't even on that draft. Meaning.. revisions have been and could still be made.

Frost eliminating Krillin and Tien changes the story completely. It forces Goku to save Roshi from Frost rather than the goons from U4 and him being the one to attack U9 instead of Goku and Vegeta. Any change by Toyotaro should be considered major at this point. The scope of the story isn't who gets eliminated throughout the tournament. It's things like Kefla appearing, Ultra Instinct transformation, Jiren vs. Goku, etc. The elimination order for the lesser 5 of Team Universe 7 may not even matter. You can't claim it's going to remain the same if the outline never downright says it is.

Actually it was confirmed that the outline has the order of the eliminations. Toei revealed that in their most recent interview when they explained Toriyama's contributions. The elimination order was all in the outline.

[WittyUsername]

It might be too early to say, but is it weird that I kind of think the manga version of the ToP is having the opposite problem that the arc in the anime had? The problem with the ToP in the anime was that it ended up dragging on for too long that it began to feel tedious. The manga, on the other hand, has so far been breezing through the eliminations, to the point where some of the fighters have already been eliminated offscreen. I don’t know if I’d really consider that to be a good thing, even if it means that the arc will most likely end up feeling like less of a chore to get through when compared to its anime counterpart.

[ToshioWrites]

It might be too early to say, but is it weird that I kind of think the manga version of the ToP is having the opposite problem that the arc in the anime had? The problem with the ToP in the anime was that it ended up dragging on for too long that it began to feel tedious. The manga, on the other hand, has so far been breezing through the eliminations, to the point where some of the fighters have already been eliminated offscreen. I don’t know if I’d really consider that to be a good thing, even if it means that the arc will most likely end up feeling like less of a chore to get through when compared to its anime counterpart.

I like that as long as he spends full chapters on the really big fights, ex. Goku vs kefla, goku vs jiren, vegeta vs toppo. I hated having to watch episodes around goku fighting weaklings or even the trio de baldies in the anime among many others.

[Miracles]

It might be too early to say, but is it weird that I kind of think the manga version of the ToP is having the opposite problem that the arc in the anime had? The problem with the ToP in the anime was that it ended up dragging on for too long that it began to feel tedious. The manga, on the other hand, has so far been breezing through the eliminations, to the point where some of the fighters have already been eliminated offscreen. I don’t know if I’d really consider that to be a good thing, even if it means that the arc will most likely end up feeling like less of a chore to get through when compared to its anime counterpart.

The manga only off-screened the fodder that the anime gave time to.

[prince212]

We have a chapter and a half since the tournament began and 5 minutes have run ?
Not sure about the central pillar measure but 1 drop down out of 10?

[Exline]

It might be too early to say, but is it weird that I kind of think the manga version of the ToP is having the opposite problem that the arc in the anime had? The problem with the ToP in the anime was that it ended up dragging on for too long that it began to feel tedious. The manga, on the other hand, has so far been breezing through the eliminations, to the point where some of the fighters have already been eliminated offscreen. I don’t know if I’d really consider that to be a good thing, even if it means that the arc will most likely end up feeling like less of a chore to get through when compared to its anime counterpart.

I feel they both lack proper pacing. Toei's version is pretty slow paced while Toyotaro's is pretty fast. However Toyotaro's version feels like a true Battle Royale imo.

I don't like the idea of everyone being fodderized. Almost each participant should do something interesting rather than just be immmediately eliminated, similar to anime, but done right. I'm probably in the minority of people who enjoyed Toei's pacing somewhat. It only got bad for me after Episode 122, where it just took ages for someone to get eliminated or have a proper fight.

However, if the big fights like ToshioWrites stated become chapter long battles, I'm alright with it. I wonder what the fights will be. If anything we might be getting two big fights in one chapter, so no one feels like their standing around doing nothing.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I don't like the idea of everyone being fodderized. Almost each participant should do something interesting rather than just be immmediately eliminated, similar to anime, but done right. I'm probably in the minority of people who enjoyed Toei's pacing somewhat. It only got bad for me after Episode 122, where it just took ages for someone to get eliminated or have a proper fight. However, if the big fights like ToshioWrites stated become chapter long battles, I'm alright with it. I wonder what the fights will be. If anything we might be getting two big fights in one chapter, so no one feels like their standing around doing nothing.

The fodder can be fodder if its clear they have nothing going for them. One thing I might be in the minority on is not wanting to see drawn out fodder vs. fodder fights. What they should be doing is just devoting chapters to the fights between characters people expect or want to see the most look cool. Then if two top tier characters fight, that is when you slow it down. Like how the movies did it. Henchmen made the Z team look cool but the boss was whom they actually struggle with.

[Exline]

I don't like the idea of everyone being fodderized. Almost each participant should do something interesting rather than just be immmediately eliminated, similar to anime, but done right. I'm probably in the minority of people who enjoyed Toei's pacing somewhat. It only got bad for me after Episode 122, where it just took ages for someone to get eliminated or have a proper fight. However, if the big fights like ToshioWrites stated become chapter long battles, I'm alright with it. I wonder what the fights will be. If anything we might be getting two big fights in one chapter, so no one feels like their standing around doing nothing.

The fodder can be fodder if its clear they have nothing going for them. One thing I might be in the minority on is not wanting to see drawn out fodder vs. fodder fights. What they should be doing is just devoting chapters to the fights between characters people expect or want to see the most look cool. Then if two top tier characters fight, that is when you slow it down. Like how the movies did it. Henchmen made the Z team look cool but the boss was whom they actually struggle with.

Yeah thats the problem the anime had. But I'm talking like proper send offs. Like I'm gonna get bored if every minor character goes down to 1 hit. Thats make the other participants incredibly useless. Show a unique power or some teamwork, build the tension, then eliminate them. What would be the point of having other participants if their not gonna do anything interesting or apply to the story.

A great example would be Kakunsa and Vikal imo. Their fight imo was well paced, especially to show that other Participants are not as weak as we thought. Kakunsa pushed 17 to use more power and he ended up eliminating Kakunsa and Vikal in such a well executed manner. It doesn't have to be with every character but at least make use of these characters.

I also agree with hyping up the main characters. We should see some Jiren hype next chapter. Toyotaro needs to build some tension for these universes at least.

[CriticalThinker]

I'll be fine with the fodder being taken out so quickly if this does mean we get more focus of the major characters that didn't get much such as Toppo, Dyspo, Hit, etc. But it wont surprise me if Goku and Jiren get most of that focus while the others get some. I know Jiren is the main antagonist and all but I just didn't really care for his fight with Goku in the anime, due mostly to how dragged out their fight was in the final act. So I doubt I'll care much for the fight in this version and I hope that it doesn't get as much focus here as it did in the anime.

[Marlowe89]

It might be too early to say, but is it weird that I kind of think the manga version of the ToP is having the opposite problem that the arc in the anime had? The problem with the ToP in the anime was that it ended up dragging on for too long that it began to feel tedious. The manga, on the other hand, has so far been breezing through the eliminations, to the point where some of the fighters have already been eliminated offscreen. I don’t know if I’d really consider that to be a good thing, even if it means that the arc will most likely end up feeling like less of a chore to get through when compared to its anime counterpart.

As I see it, the point of the Tournament of Power is largely to present a new kind of challenge to the protagonists (a frantic battle royale) while developing the characters with the most significant roles to play. Showing off some of the unimportant fighters is by no means a bad thing, and it suits the anime's format, although I hardly think it's necessary in the manga's case. I don't believe I would have eliminated Krillin and Tien as quickly as Toyotaro did, but the manga's pacing is nothing short of excellent.

[TKA]

I know Jiren is the main antagonist and all but I just didn't really care for his fight with Goku in the anime, due mostly to how dragged out their fight was in the final act. So I doubt I'll care much for the fight in this version and I hope that it doesn't get as much focus here as it did in the anime.

Okay, first of all, what Jiren vs Goku needs is MORE focus. Let's just make that clear.

The problem with the anime is it was drawn out in pieces over so many episodes, over the course of 1 year that it became fucking boring. Also, the focus was always on how Jiren's power is maximum, rather than focusing on his character or his relationship to Goku. The manga has already started being different, so there's little to worry about.

[JazzMazz]

I know Jiren is the main antagonist and all but I just didn't really care for his fight with Goku in the anime, due mostly to how dragged out their fight was in the final act. So I doubt I'll care much for the fight in this version and I hope that it doesn't get as much focus here as it did in the anime.

Okay, first of all, what Jiren vs Goku needs is MORE focus. Let's just make that clear.

The problem with the anime is it was drawn out in pieces over so many episodes, over the course of 1 year that it became fucking boring. Also, the focus was always on how Jiren's power is maximum, rather than focusing on his character or his relationship to Goku. The manga has already started being different, so there's little to worry about.

Yeah, 123-129 is a real mess generally, in terms of direction, in terms of characterization, thematically etc. They only really focused on the Goku/Jiren dynamic in 130 and 131, and that was arguably a little to late for that kind of stuff to happen.

Also, I hope that with each major encounter with Jiren, we progressively get hints about who he is. For example, in his first encounter with Goku, Toyo could reveal a hint about Jiren's character, maybe in something as simple as a throwaway line. In his (almost sure to happen) fight against Hit, we should learn something else and it should get more and more hints about Jiren's true motives and character as he continues to fight. However, the reveal shouldn't happen to late in the fight, so that there is still enough time to develop Jiren.

[Omniboy]

In his (almost sure to happen) fight against Hit,

Actually I'm not so sure if that will happen at this point. Earlier in the story we learned that Jiren doesn't want to eliminate people. I don't see him doing that to Hit unless he actually poses a threat to him. Which I find highly unlikely.

Honestly considering how close the events occur in the anime, with Goku becoming exhausted, and Hit being eliminated, (that's if Goku becoming tired is a plot Toriyama created) I was thinking that he will likely fight Goku once again, putting up a much better fight, which is honestly what I hope will happen. TBH when it came to Hit in the first tournament in the manga, I was fine with his showing not being all that great because I figured that he was going to have a better showing the second time he came around. But now, I am a little worried, because as we know, Toriyama likes to make previous antagonists look very weak in the next arc to set up the next big bad. And Toyo did not make him all that menacing the first time around.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I know Jiren is the main antagonist and all but I just didn't really care for his fight with Goku in the anime, due mostly to how dragged out their fight was in the final act. So I doubt I'll care much for the fight in this version and I hope that it doesn't get as much focus here as it did in the anime.

Okay, first of all, what Jiren vs Goku needs is MORE focus. Let's just make that clear.

The problem with the anime is it was drawn out in pieces over so many episodes, over the course of 1 year that it became fucking boring. Also, the focus was always on how Jiren's power is maximum, rather than focusing on his character or his relationship to Goku. The manga has already started being different, so there's little to worry about.

Yeah, 123-129 is a real mess generally, in terms of direction, in terms of characterization, thematically etc. They only really focused on the Goku/Jiren dynamic in 130 and 131, and that was arguably a little to late for that kind of stuff to happen.

Also, I hope that with each major encounter with Jiren, we progressively get hints about who he is. For example, in his first encounter with Goku, Toyo could reveal a hint about Jiren's character, maybe in something as simple as a throwaway line. In his (almost sure to happen) fight against Hit, we should learn something else and it should get more and more hints about Jiren's true motives and character as he continues to fight. However, the reveal shouldn't happen to late in the fight, so that there is still enough time to develop Jiren.

The only personality trait i see jiren showcasing in his upcoming fight with hit is that hit is the opposite of what jiren represents. Hit is an assassin, jiren hates killing. So i see the manga version of this fight being the same as the anime. With jiren talking a bit more.

[ToshioWrites]

I have a feeling Hit is gonna get absolutely humiliated by Jiren, he won't even trap Hit in the time cage imo.

[Exline]

I have a feeling Hit is gonna get absolutely humiliated by Jiren, he won't even trap Hit in the time cage imo.

He claimed he was getting stronger. I'm hopeful he'll do surprisingly well in the manga version of the fight, rather then getting bodied like in the anime.

[Vegeta_Sama]

I have a feeling Hit is gonna get absolutely humiliated by Jiren, he won't even trap Hit in the time cage imo.

If this happens, he'll definitely become the worst character to ever exist in the Dragon Ball Manga

[ToshioWrites]

I have a feeling Hit is gonna get absolutely humiliated by Jiren, he won't even trap Hit in the time cage imo.

He claimed he was getting stronger. I'm hopeful he'll do surprisingly well in the manga version of the fight, rather then getting bodied like in the anime.

I mean he was about equal to ssg goku if not a bit stronger last time so even if he improved, i could see him being about on par with ssb goku which isn't gonna work and toyo unlike the anime has one sided fights, he doesn't care about making someone look good for example piccolo vs frost or vegito vs m zamasu both which were much more one sided in the manga

[Raphael_Z]

It might be too early to say, but is it weird that I kind of think the manga version of the ToP is having the opposite problem that the arc in the anime had? The problem with the ToP in the anime was that it ended up dragging on for too long that it began to feel tedious. The manga, on the other hand, has so far been breezing through the eliminations, to the point where some of the fighters have already been eliminated offscreen. I don’t know if I’d really consider that to be a good thing, even if it means that the arc will most likely end up feeling like less of a chore to get through when compared to its anime counterpart.

I like that as long as he spends full chapters on the really big fights, ex. Goku vs kefla, goku vs jiren, vegeta vs toppo. I hated having to watch episodes around goku fighting weaklings or even the trio de baldies in the anime among many others.

Other than Goku vs Jiren, there is 0 guarantee that those other fights will happen. For all we know, Vegeta is the one to take down Kefla and UGohan, Frieza and A17 will handle Toppo.

Remember that Kale, Kefla, SSBE Vegeta and G.o.D Toppo were Anime inventions and weren't created by Toriyama.