Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

What's even the point then? If you're just going to say "He can use this amount of Super Saiyan power in just base", why even bother with a list? You're basically giving yourself an excuse to throw out all of the power scaling of the series, therefore just destroying all precedents you'd have with which to make a list.

Anyway, another question on your list: gaps. Like I said:

I just don't like gap inconsistency. I kind of wonder what the point of making these in the first place is if the numbers don't really mean anything, since gaps just fluctuate. I mean you have 100% Freeza holding his own (or the very least, not getting steam rolled) with an 80% gap, but then you have Goku completely unable to land a single hit with a 90% gap (against Paikuhan) or even LESS (against Tullece)? And you have Garlic Jr destroying Goku with not even a 95% gap? Come on...

And LSS Broly dominating SS2 Gohan with just a 97% gap? That's just weird. I could probably find other examples.

[TheMightyOzaru]

What's even the point then? If you're just going to say "He can use this amount of Super Saiyan power in just base", why even bother with a list? You're basically giving yourself an excuse to throw out all of the power scaling of the series, therefore just destroying all precedents you'd have with which to make a list.

Anyway, another question on your list: gaps. Like I said:

I just don't like gap inconsistency. I kind of wonder what the point of making these in the first place is if the numbers don't really mean anything, since gaps just fluctuate. I mean you have 100% Freeza holding his own (or the very least, not getting steam rolled) with an 80% gap, but then you have Goku completely unable to land a single hit with a 90% gap (against Paikuhan) or even LESS (against Tullece)? And you have Garlic Jr destroying Goku with not even a 95% gap? Come on...

And LSS Broly dominating SS2 Gohan with just a 97% gap? That's just weird. I could probably find other examples.

How does my list throw away all the power scaling? You don't seem to realize why people make BP lists. People make them to get a numerical value of someone's power. It also helps power scaling. My list doesn't deny anything said or shown in GT. My list is also just a prototype, it's far from finished. As I said prior the gaps in power levels don't matter much. As long as someone is stronger, he will pull the victory. You also have to take into account other factors such as strength, speed, and skill. Broly's Physical strength is enough to beat Gohan down without too much effort. As to why Freeza fared so well for so long against Goku, his physical strength and durability were much greater than Goku's, at least that's how I view it. As for Paikuhan, his speed and skill gave him the edge. Tullece's everything gave him the edge. If you notice, All of Tullece's traits were increased upon eating that fruit. I don't think I have to say anything about Garlic Jr but strength.

[Kamiccolo9]

You just said that it became smaller or became unnoticeable.

And two things: one, I'm not necessarily saying that base Goku has to be stronger than Freeza, and two, this is a movie, why would it care about the Daizenshuu?

Again, if he assumed that Goku was a weakling that only could beat Freeza with a sneak attack, then first of all, he's still an idiot, and secondly, why was he impressed by Goku's performance in a fight? How would he gauge that Goku is good at ambushes from a fist fight?

The Daizenshuu's apply to everything Dragon Ball.

Fun fact: Daizenshuu is already plural. No need to add an "s" on the end
The Daizenshuu, at least individually, don't apply to everything in Dragonball. Daizenshuu 2, for instance, deals with the manga, while 3 and 5 deal with the anime. Daizenshuu 6 is the one that deals with the movies and TV specials. So depending on which of the Daizenshuu the comment about the zenkais is from, it may not apply to the movies.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It either comes from the Daizenshuu 2 or 4.

[Kamiccolo9]

It either comes from the Daizenshuu 2 or 4.

Then there's really no need to apply it to the movies then. They do their own thing.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It either comes from the Daizenshuu 2 or 4.

Then there's really no need to apply it to the movies then. They do their own thing.

Why wouldn't the movies follow suit? The only one seen breaking the Zenkai rule is Broly and even then he is a special case.

[Kamiccolo9]

It either comes from the Daizenshuu 2 or 4.

Then there's really no need to apply it to the movies then. They do their own thing.

Why wouldn't the movies follow suit? The only one seen breaking the Zenkai rule is Broly and even then he is a special case.

Goku possibly got one in movie 5.
The movies do what they want. Gohan has a tail in movie 5, Dende was God of Earth in movie 6, before he was in either the anime or the manga, movie 7 violates the statement that all of Gero's androids before 16 were failures and shut down, Gohan is weaker than Goku in movie 8, despite both being FPSSJ, Tien can put up a fight against base Trunks in movie 9, Broly gets a zenkai between movies 8 and 10, dunno about 11, base Gohan beats Freeza with a punch in movie 12, Goku>everyone in 13, etc.
The anime is somewhat bound by the storyline of the manga, since it has to follow it, but the movies aren't. They don't have to follow the established rules of the series because they don't fit into the main continuity. They do what they want.

[TheMightyOzaru]

That is all timeline stuff. The Zenkai rule should be universal. I do think Goku got one in Movie 5 but it was small. Less than a 1.2x increase.

[Kamiccolo9]

That is all timeline stuff. The Zenkai rule should be universal. I do think Goku got one in Movie 5 but it was small. Less than a 1.2x increase.

Why should it? If it's in the book that was written for the manga, why should it have any bearing on the movies?

[TheMightyOzaru]

The anime also follows it from what I can tell.

[Mjb1985]

It looks like Goku got a Zenkai.

[dbzfan7]

Here is what I have for GT so far:

Dragon Ball GT Power Levels

Black Star Dragon Ball Saga

Vegeta: 1,300,000,000
---SSJ: 65,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 130,000,000,000
Goku: 3,800,000,000
---RSSJ: 37,900,000,000
---SSJ: 190,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 380,000,000,000
---SSJ3: 1,520,000,000,000
Uub: 36,000,000,000

Baby Saga

Goku: 4,000,000,000
---SSJ: 200,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 400,000,000,000
---SSJ3: 1,600,000,000,000-
---Golden Oozaru: 2,000,000,000,000
---SSJ4: 16,000,000,000,000
Vegeta: 1,500,000,000
---SSJ: 75,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 150,000,000,000
---Baby: 1,500,000,000,000
---Super Baby: 1,660,000,000,000
---Super Baby 2: 1,800,000,000,000
---Golden Oozaru: 18,000,000,000,000
Uub: 38,000,000,000
---Super: 1,732,800,000,000

Super 17 Saga

Goku: 4,000,000,000
---RSSJ: 39,900,000,000
---SSJ: 200,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 400,000,000,000
---SSJ3: 1,600,000,000,000
---SSJ4: 16,000,000,000,000
Vegeta: 1,600,000,000
---SSJ: 80,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 160,000,000,000
Super Uub: 1,750,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 20,000,000,000
Freeza: 400,000,000
Hell Figher 17: 1,600,000,000
---Super: 5,760,000,000,000
---Super(Energy Absorbed): 37,760,000,000,000

Shadow Dragon Saga

Goku: 4,000,000,000
---SSJ: 200,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 400,000,000,000
---SSJ3: 1,600,000,000,000
---SSJ4: 16,000,000,000,000
Vegeta: 1,800,000,000
---SSJ: 90,000,000,000
---SSJ2: 180,000,000,000
---Oozaru: 18,000,000,000
---Golden Oozaru: 900,000,000,000
---SSJ4: 7,200,000,000,000
Gogeta: 360,000,000,000
---SSJ4: 1,440,000,000,000,000
Er Xing Long: 1,000,000
Wu Xing Long: 50,000
---Electric Slime: 5,000,000,000,000
Liu Xing Long: 700,000,000
Qi Xing Long: 6,000
---Mole Absorbed: 600,000,000
---Pan Absorbed: 6,000,000,000,000
Si Xing Long: 4,000,000,000,000
---Super: 16,000,000,000,000
San Xing Long: 13,000,000,000,000
Yi Xing Long: 18,000,000,000,000
---Super: 180,000,000,000,000

Disgraceful list...............You forgot the Bon Para Para brotha's

[TheMightyOzaru]

Umm... here:
Each have a power level of about 100,000,000,000,000,000. They are secretly the strongest in the series. In all seriousness though I would say they all have power levels lower than 1,000.

[Rocketman]

Could I make a suggestion for everybody? Can we all use the words "million/billion/trillion" instead of zeros? I dunno about anyone else, but my eyes just glaze over the huge lists of
000,000,000
000,000,000
000,000,000
000,000,000.

[RandomGuy96]

I can see how that would be annoying, but I prefer actually putting my numbers in... numbers. Just looks better to me is all. I only ever get annoyed by such lists when they go beyond the billions. See CatouttaHell's insanely, ridiculously bloated list.

[Mjb1985]

Yea COH's list is probably one of the more bloated lists I've seen. And even then, it'a possible that could be the case. One look at the Freeza Saga and you can see how severely bloated sagas can potentially be. Vegeta was the last major villian and he comes into the saga with a whopping 24,000 power level. By the end of the saga we are seeing power levels well above 100 million! That is quite an absurd gap and I doubt that this was the only time we've seen such absurd gaps suggested, maybe not quite as big, but I don't think AT tries to do any anti bloating.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I can see how that would be annoying, but I prefer actually putting my numbers in... numbers. Just looks better to me is all. I only ever get annoyed by such lists when they go beyond the billions. See CatouttaHell's insanely, ridiculously bloated list.

Fuck! His GT levels are ridiculous! His Dragon Ball levels are also laughable. Cyborg Tao > Bardock? Hell no.

[Kamiccolo9]

I can see how that would be annoying, but I prefer actually putting my numbers in... numbers. Just looks better to me is all. I only ever get annoyed by such lists when they go beyond the billions. See CatouttaHell's insanely, ridiculously bloated list.

Fuck! His GT levels are ridiculous! His Dragon Ball levels are also laughable. Cyborg Tao > Bardock? Hell no.

What? How does he figure that?

[TheMightyOzaru]

I can see how that would be annoying, but I prefer actually putting my numbers in... numbers. Just looks better to me is all. I only ever get annoyed by such lists when they go beyond the billions. See CatouttaHell's insanely, ridiculously bloated list.

Fuck! His GT levels are ridiculous! His Dragon Ball levels are also laughable. Cyborg Tao > Bardock? Hell no.

What? How does he figure that?

He seems to think Goku and everyone got a lot weaker after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai so he made everyone at the Budokai needlessly strong. It's complete bull.

[Kamiccolo9]

He seems to think Goku and everyone got a lot weaker after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai so he made everyone at the Budokai needlessly strong. It's complete bull.

He has Tao around 10,000? What did he have Goku and Piccolo at in the Budokai? Or can you give me a link to this list?