Daizenshuu EX DB wiki...again

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:34 am

Well, TFS has been on the podcast. And this is a Daizex-sponsored wiki.

Lame defense, but why not? I'd like to see a section on them.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:26 am

This is just a tiny tiny tiny thing about special characters that don't exist, and I like the way Wikipedia and other sites do it...

Rather than writing money out like 9000 zennie we should use tiny tiny icons and do it like

9001.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:07 pm

What about fan and dub terms? Like are we going to mention that Freeza has been referred to as a Changeling by some fans? Are there going to be mentionings of "Tuffles" and other dub names?

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:16 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:What about fan and dub terms? Like are we going to mention that Freeza has been referred to as a Changeling by some fans?

Yes, I think that would help set fans straight who don't know otherwise.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:16 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:What about fan and dub terms? Like are we going to mention that Freeza has been referred to as a Changeling by some fans? Are there going to be mentionings of "Tuffles" and other dub names?

Which dub? Wouldn't it only be fair to mention every single last dub's version of "Tsufuru-jin" if we include the FUNimation one? And then how do you logically and efficiently include all of that neatly on a page?

I think we already went over this a little bit way earlier in the thread...

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:19 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Innagadadavida wrote:What about fan and dub terms? Like are we going to mention that Freeza has been referred to as a Changeling by some fans? Are there going to be mentionings of "Tuffles" and other dub names?
Which dub? Wouldn't it only be fair to mention every single last dub's version of "Tsufuru-jin" if we include the FUNimation one? And then how do you logically and efficiently include all of that neatly on a page?

I think we already went over this a little bit way earlier in the thread...

The most popular English dub. Y'know since this is an English wiki. It's not unreasonable. There are going to be many noobies checking it out only to find that they can't find what they're looking for because they're only using the information that they know.

It's for wider appeal, I guess. Not to lend respect to that terrible rancid horrible abomination.

jk

EDIT: And I actually think it would be kind of cool to list some of the other major and/or weirdest name changes in various dubs. We just have to mention Harmony Gold's Bongo, Xero, and Wiskers the Wonder Cat.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:30 pm

I'm still having trouble grasping how you walk the fine line of:

The point of this new wiki is that other ones are plagued with inaccurate information, mostly stemming from one specific English dub of the series and its loyalist fans

... and then try to incorporate their own information into it in a logical, reasonable, and helpful way.

Yes, this new wiki will be "in English". Why does that have to mean it ends up getting plagued with FUNimation-only nonsense? We've already established that it's going to end up being entirely self-serving and making little impact as a whole on the rest of fandom, so why pander to them?

I'm not saying I don't agree and that some of this information sprinkled around might be helpful; don't misunderstand. Am I explaining where I'm coming from well enough, though? I don't think I am

.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:32 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:
Innagadadavida wrote:What about fan and dub terms? Like are we going to mention that Freeza has been referred to as a Changeling by some fans? Are there going to be mentionings of "Tuffles" and other dub names?
Which dub? Wouldn't it only be fair to mention every single last dub's version of "Tsufuru-jin" if we include the FUNimation one? And then how do you logically and efficiently include all of that neatly on a page?

I think we already went over this a little bit way earlier in the thread...
The most popular English dub. Y'know since this is an English wiki. It's not unreasonable. There are going to be many noobies checking it out only to find that they can't find what they're looking for because they're only using the information that they know.

It's for wider appeal, I guess. Not to lend respect to that terrible rancid horrible abomination. jk

EDIT: And I actually think it would be kind of cool to list some of the other major and/or weirdest name changes in various dubs. We just have to mention Harmony Gold's Bongo, Xero, and Wiskers the Wonder Cat.

Well, then. To solve that problem, there's always redirects. Some newbie with only dub knowledge comes along and types "Tuffles" into the Wiki search, it redirects to "Tsurufu-jin" and has that little message that's along the lines of "Redirected from "Tuffles.""

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:36 pm

I'm not suggesting that the information be in the meat of the article or even the article itself. I am saying that this type of stuff might be important to include somewhere, if only in passing; maybe as part of a list.

I'm sure it'll be rare, but what happens if somebody who's new to the series, only has information that came from the dub, but wants to learn more about the original version. Say this person types in the search "Tora," y'know to learn more about the development and back story of Toma. But his search yields no results. What's the point in having a Wiki that's meant to provide accurate information and fix the damage the Dragon Ball Wikia has caused, but without so much as a note of what was fixed?

Kendamu wrote:Well, then. To solve that problem, there's always redirects. Some newbie with only dub knowledge comes along and types "Tuffles" into the Wiki search, it redirects to "Tsurufu-jin" and has that little message that's along the lines of "Redirected from "Tuffles.""

Yeah, this would work perfectly.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:41 pm

Pfft, I'm totally fine with little re-directs like that. It's wonderfully passive-aggressive, almost, in getting them over to the "correct" information... just like the word filters, here!

I'd say a search for "Changeling" brings someone over to the "Uncited Fan-Created Terminology" page, or something.

I was thinking more along the lines of stuff actually integrated into the article(s). Which... uhh... I'd prefer to stay clear of whenever/however we can.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:41 pm

Kendamu wrote:
Innagadadavida wrote:
VegettoEX wrote: Which dub? Wouldn't it only be fair to mention every single last dub's version of "Tsufuru-jin" if we include the FUNimation one? And then how do you logically and efficiently include all of that neatly on a page?

I think we already went over this a little bit way earlier in the thread...
The most popular English dub. Y'know since this is an English wiki. It's not unreasonable. There are going to be many noobies checking it out only to find that they can't find what they're looking for because they're only using the information that they know.

It's for wider appeal, I guess. Not to lend respect to that terrible rancid horrible abomination. jk

EDIT: And I actually think it would be kind of cool to list some of the other major and/or weirdest name changes in various dubs. We just have to mention Harmony Gold's Bongo, Xero, and Wiskers the Wonder Cat.
Well, then. To solve that problem, there's always redirects. Some newbie with only dub knowledge comes along and types "Tuffles" into the Wiki search, it redirects to "Tsurufu-jin" and has that little message that's along the lines of "Redirected from "Tuffles.""

Actually, since Daimao uses Tsufruians and not Tsufru-jins, shouldn't we use that?

We aren't seriously going to use Saiya-jins, are we?

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:44 pm

Who's Daimao?

Redirects would work perfectly, it be our way of saying "You're wrong stop using that" *cough*Hercule*cough*

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:46 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Kendamu wrote:
Innagadadavida wrote: The most popular English dub. Y'know since this is an English wiki. It's not unreasonable. There are going to be many noobies checking it out only to find that they can't find what they're looking for because they're only using the information that they know.

It's for wider appeal, I guess. Not to lend respect to that terrible rancid horrible abomination. jk

EDIT: And I actually think it would be kind of cool to list some of the other major and/or weirdest name changes in various dubs. We just have to mention Harmony Gold's Bongo, Xero, and Wiskers the Wonder Cat.
Well, then. To solve that problem, there's always redirects. Some newbie with only dub knowledge comes along and types "Tuffles" into the Wiki search, it redirects to "Tsurufu-jin" and has that little message that's along the lines of "Redirected from "Tuffles.""
Actually, since Daimao uses Tsufruians and not Tsufru-jins, shouldn't we use that?

We aren't seriously going to use Saiya-jins, are we?

I hope not. I always feel like a pompous ass when I say it out-loud. There is nothing wrong with turning "jin" into "an". It is like America-jin to American.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:46 pm

Rod wrote:Who's Daimao?

Redirects would work perfectly, it be our way of saying "You're wrong stop using that" *cough*Hercule*cough*

Steven J. Simmons, he translated the subtitles for FUNimation Entertainment's DVD release of DBZ, GT, and some of DB.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:50 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of stuff actually integrated into the article(s). Which... uhh... I'd prefer to stay clear of whenever/however we can.

Yes I agree. But where I disagree is the whole "self-service" you mentioned earlier:

VegettoEX wrote:Yes, this new wiki will be "in English". Why does that have to mean it ends up getting plagued with FUNimation-only nonsense? We've already established that it's going to end up being entirely self-serving and making little impact as a whole on the rest of fandom, so why pander to them?

I think we should try to make the information about the original version of the series, in it's purist form, accessible to those who know little to nothing about it. It's like I said earlier in the thread:

Innagadadavida wrote: I don't think the goal is to cater exclusively to the Daizex community. I think the goal should be to provide an accurate Dragon Ball centered Wiki that focuses only on the original version to prevent any confusion and misconceptions regarding various dubs and translations. It should be open to everybody who's interested in learning more about the series in its most pure form . Afterall, that's a hell of a lot of work to only be regularly used by a couple dozen people.

Also, I just realized that I already answered my own question:

Innagadadavida wrote:Well the way I see it, a Daizenshuu EX Wiki would be only for the original. It can be the answer to the dub-based DBWikia, providing only the facts and no convoluted "this dub does this but that dub does that." Perhaps on the side there can be an "Also known as:" very small inconspicuous mention of dub names. Like Piccolo is also known as Satan in the French dub, Chi-Chi is also known as Milk in the Mexican dub, and Tenshinhan is also known as Tien in the FUNimation English dub.

But the articles themselves should be absent of dub terms.

But yeah, I still feel the same way.

. It's surprising how much I forget sometimes.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:54 pm

Well, considering this Wiki is 'solely for' those who frequent this forum it's not likely that anyone of those of us here are likely to not know who Hildegarn is over Hirudegarn, or Kaiôshin over Supreme Kai.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:59 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Well, considering this Wiki is 'solely for' those who frequent this forum it's not likely that anyone of those of us here are likely to not know who Hildegarn is over Hirudegarn, or Kaiôshin over Supreme Kai.

I wouldn't say that it's "solely for" us, but in all honesty with a heavy dose of reality on top, that's primarily who it's going to be for.

Like discussed in the past, the casual/everyday fan is just going to immediately jump to standard ol' Wikipedia for a tiny bit of information they need. We don't even exist to them. It would be awesome if they eventually happen upon it, but it's not likely.

Chrono Trigger · Post by **Chrono Trigger** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:12 pm

If people do a good job of spreading the word then it should catch on eventually. I'd say there are more people who know about Daizex now then a year ago. This could be the same way.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:41 pm

Perhaps a "common misinformation" subsection for articles could be interesting? Example, I recently corrected the DB wiki on the fact that in the traffic safety video there's a girl - they claimed it was Lunch . It's not. Maybe a tiny section could mention that mistake?

Or, perhaps common mistake of power levels *groans*. I hope you understand my point.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:22 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:Well, considering this Wiki is 'solely for' those who frequent this forum it's not likely that anyone of those of us here are likely to not know who Hildegarn is over Hirudegarn, or Kaiôshin over Supreme Kai.
I wouldn't say that it's "solely for" us, but in all honesty with a heavy dose of reality on top, that's primarily who it's going to be for.

Like discussed in the past, the casual/everyday fan is just going to immediately jump to standard ol' Wikipedia for a tiny bit of information they need. We don't even exist to them. It would be awesome if they eventually happen upon it, but it's not likely.

Poor phrasing on my part, but essentially that's what I meant by "we're pretty much going to be the only ones using it."