Schemmel: "The Ocean Group is doing their own dub"

[penguintruth]

Ocean has dubbed a lot of Gundam, in fact. But they usually do a fair job of it. It's when they let their Blue Water branch do it, that's when I have trouble with them.

On the subject of English Gokus for Ocean, I've always been partial to Peter Kelamis, myself. I think Kirby Morrow is the better VA, but his Goku is just a little too smooth.

[Velasa]

It will be interesting to see who voices Goku on Ocean's Kai dub, what do people think are the chances that Ian Corlett will return? Ian is still voice acting and I think he's still in Vancouver.

If we got a new accurate dub with Scott, Brian, Ted and Ian I would cry tears of joy. Not even the lovley first three Pioneer movies had Ian- I mean Peter amuses me and all with his Surfer Goku but Ian's just my boy when it comes to English Goku. Oi, this thread is just taunting me thinking about and wanting this, but knowing how little possibility there is of it ever happening...

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I see. Well, Dragon Ball GT was moved to Blue Water to save production costs. But whats interesting is that Blue Water licensed the original Japanese DBGT soundtrack (which presumably is more expensive than producing one yourself) and kept the script accurate and close to the original Japanese script, 2 things which both Ocean and Funimation didnt do.

But have you actually heard the voices for the Blue Water dub of GT? They're fricking horrible. It sounds like the dubbing was done with people off the street.


I'd take FUNi's dub of GT with the techno score over the shit Blue Water dub anyday.

[penguintruth]

Peter amuses me and all with his Surfer Goku but Ian's just my boy when it comes to English Goku.

What? Peter Kelamis' Goku never sounded like a surfer.

But have you actually heard the voices for the Blue Water dub of GT? They're fricking horrible. It sounds like the dubbing was done with people off the street.

So a lot like Funimation's dub of DBZ, you're saying.

[dagame10k]

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the Ocean dub of Dragon Ball Z.

Due to fan outrage at the Funimation dub resulting in falling ratings, the Ocean Group were brought back to continue with DBZ. As well as that, AB Groupe are the license holders of the Dragon Ball franchise, they saw how great DBZ was doing on TV in the UK and Holland, they wanted their own English dub, and who better to dub DBZ than the Ocean Group, AB Groupe gave Ocean the job of dubbing DBZ and AB Groupe supplied the episodes for broadcast in UK, Europe, Canada and other countries.

As far as I know, the Ocean dub didnt have anything to do with Canada's cancon law. For starters, Canada didnt even get the Ocean dub until mid Cell Games, when Ocean had started all the way back to the latter half of the Trunks saga. I heard that Funimation weren't treating YTV well, and of course a superior dub produced in Canada must've been an attraction as well, so YTV purchased the Ocean dub.

And you seem to be creating more confusion, Westwood saw there was a niche market for them to produce a TV dub with the Canadian Cast, ABGroupe only had their name slapped on at the at the end of some episodes at the beginning ONLY in European Broadcasts,then it disappeared, but yes ABgroupe has the European rights, but they had little to do with the dub.

YTV simplely cut ties with FUNimation because they weren't getting new episodes as fast as Cartoon Network, FUNimation kept delaying the Delivery, and it wasn't until Full Metal Alchemist appeared on YTV that the past was put behind them before YTV gave up on Anime unfortunately. The Westwood dub was never superior to the FUNimatin dub, only a fanboy believes that, it's just as flawed, if not more than the FUNimation dub.

As for an Ocean Group dub of Dragon Ball Kai, that is brilliant news and I'd say undoubtedly the Ocean Group will blow Funimation out of the water as they did with DBZ..

I don't know what went on in Schemmel's head, an actor who has never worked with Ocean group, not once, went on a bashing tangent over music changes on a dub that doesn't exist to begin with. It's not 1999, whatever Ocean Dragon Ball fan base there is these days, doesn't matter, TV Companies tend to aim for the current Younger generations when it comes to Cartoons and Anime, there's a new target audience for them to go after, and said audience likely never heard of of the Ocean Group, there isn't a need for an Ocean Dub of kai. There are a few things I don't like the FUNimation dub of kai, but it's the most accurate English dub of the Second half of Dragon Ball that you could ever hope for these days, though not quite as good as Pioneer Uncut Movies 1-3. There is not a single reason that an Ocean Dub Kai should ever need to exist. Likely doesn't exist, and likely never will.

And Again, The Westwood dub was never superior to the FUNimatin dub, only a fanboy believes that.

The Ocean Group is an A list studio(s)

I'd rate the dubs as:

Dragon Ball (Blue Water Studios) A list (Higher than BLT though)
Dragon Ball (BLT productions) A list
Dragon Ball Z (Ocean Group; episodes 1-53 and 108-276) A* list
Dragon Ball GT (Blue Water Studios) B+ list

I havent seen much of the other stuff Blue Water has done, their GT dub was pretty decent and their DB dub was excellent, even better than the BLT DB dub (which used the same Vancouver voice cast Ocean's DBZ dub uses) Blue Water used Nyoibo throughout the series instead of that ridiculous power pole, among other things (Mafuba, Master Crane, Tao Pai Pai etc, Blue Water trounced Funimation, the latter going on a script and name change frenzy) So at least Blue Water's DB dub is A list and by far the most accurate and true to the original English dub of Dragon Ball there is

Dub Ratings

Dragon Ball (Blue Water Studios) C-
Dragon Ball (BLT productions) C
Dragon Ball Z (FUNimation/Ocean 1-53) C
Dragon Ball Z (Pioneer/Ocean/FUNimation Movies 1-3) A
Dragon Ball Z (Westwood 108-139) C
Dragon Ball Z (Westwood 140-276) C
Dragon Ball GT (Blue Water Studios) D

Accurate Scripts and Orginal score mean nothing when the voice acting is terrible. Good voice acting means nothing when the score is replaced, and the scripts are beyond messed up.

But Westood studios uses the Ocean cast, so it'll be the same as if it were recorded at Ocean Studios. Blue Water is different because it uses a completely different cast to Ocean Studios, Westwood Studios and Airwaves Studios. I think it was Wing that was on Cartoon Network, which means that some Gundam series got moved over to Blue Water, like GT & DB, but Blue Water did a good to excellent job with GT & DB...

Westwood is part of the Ocean Group....... Blue Water Studios was created by Ken Morrison to bypass the British Columbia(Province) Acting union, wanted to save money, so he set up Blue Water in Calgary which is in another province(Alberta). The Core Ocean Cast were prepared to dub Dragon Ball Gt, but the rug was pulled from under them.

[Dayspring]

So what's with the rumor that Ocean handled the video editing for the TV broadcast versions? Were they indeed credited for this (on the TV broadcast version; please don't check your DVD's credits)?

[Velasa]

Peter amuses me and all with his Surfer Goku but Ian's just my boy when it comes to English Goku.

What? Peter Kelamis' Goku never sounded like a surfer.

Well you see, there's this kid in the Denver the Last Dinosaur movie who kinda sounds like Peter's Son in Dead Zone, and my little brother and I like to joke about this a lot. He doesn't actually sound like a surfer, it's an affectionate term I use in reference to some of his deliveries (Particurally while on Kintoun in Dead Zone- "they've summoned the dragon!" makes me crack up). I didn't mean at all like the horrible memories "Surfer Yamcha" brings up.

[RazorX]

Ocean has dubbed a lot of Gundam, in fact. But they usually do a fair job of it. It's when they let their Blue Water branch do it, that's when I have trouble with them.

Just out of interest, did Blue Water keep the original Japanese music for the Gundam shows they dubbed and did they use an accurate script? Did Ocean change the music for Gundam?

On the subject of English Gokus for Ocean, I've always been partial to Peter Kelamis, myself. I think Kirby Morrow is the better VA, but his Goku is just a little too smooth.

It would be funny if Ian, Peter and Kirby reprised their roles in the same areas they did for DBZ.

It will be interesting to see who voices Goku on Ocean's Kai dub, what do people think are the chances that Ian Corlett will return? Ian is still voice acting and I think he's still in Vancouver.

If we got a new accurate dub with Scott, Brian, Ted and Ian I would cry tears of joy. Not even the lovley first three Pioneer movies had Ian- I mean Peter amuses me and all with his Surfer Goku but Ian's just my boy when it comes to English Goku. Oi, this thread is just taunting me thinking about and wanting this, but knowing how little possibility there is of it ever happening...

The edited version of DBZ Movie 3; Tree of Might had Ian voicing Goku, so if you want to see how Ian would've handled the movies, edited movie 3 is your best bet.

I have a preference towards Ian for the role of Goku and it would indeed be cool if Ian returned.

But have you actually heard the voices for the Blue Water dub of GT? They're fricking horrible. It sounds like the dubbing was done with people off the street.

Funny you should say that, thats how a lot of people describe the Funimation dub.

For the most part I thought the voices in Blue Water GT were better than Funimation GT. That boring monotone Menza techno killed Funi GT. The Japanese soundtrack is so much better and puts life into the show which is unattainable using the Menza score.

I'd take FUNi's dub of GT with the techno score over the shit Blue Water dub anyday.

You'd take an inaccurate dub with a dull bgm over a dub which has the original Japanese bgm and a more accurate script?

And you seem to be creating more confusion,

How am I creating more confusion?

Westwood saw there was a niche market for them to produce a TV dub with the Canadian Cast, ABGroupe only had their name slapped on at the at the end of some episodes at the beginning ONLY in European Broadcasts,then it disappeared, but yes ABgroupe has the European rights, but they had little to do with the dub.

Sorry, but a niche market would not have worked with the Westwood Studios/Ocean version of DBZ. With a niche market, you target a small segment of the market with a product seen to add higher value than others and charge a high price, usually a lot higher than competitors. I dont think The Ocean dub was THAT much more expensive to purchase for broadcast than the Funimation dub, and there's no indication the Ocean dub was targeted to a niche market. On the other hand, there is indication that the Ocean dub was targeted for the mass market. If it was for a niche market, they would've milked it a lot more to ensure maximum profitability, and that means releasing the dub on home video and DVD. The Ocean dub was broadcast in more countries than the Funimation dub, it was intended for the mass audience, that is how they'd make their money off it.

As far as ABGroupe is concerned, when the Westwood Studios/Ocean dub first hit the airwaves, there was a lot of talk about the return of the old voices, everyone knew how angry fans were with the Funimation voices because of the discussions, so someone contacted Cartoon Network about it and received a reply, the reply stated that ABGroupe produced the dub and distributed it to them, that was before any AB Group credits or title cards were seen at the end of the episodes, so when the ABGroup Distribution logo came along, it simply reinforced the information that was given.

There's no indication that Westwood Media licensed DBZ themselves, which means they were given the job by either AB Group or Toei Animation.

YTV simplely cut ties with FUNimation because they weren't getting new episodes as fast as Cartoon Network, FUNimation kept delaying the Delivery, and it wasn't until Full Metal Alchemist appeared on YTV that the past was put behind them before YTV gave up on Anime unfortunately. The Westwood dub was never superior to the FUNimatin dub, only a fanboy believes that, it's just as flawed, if not more than the FUNimation dub.

But the issue brought up here was whether YTV produced the dub to satisfy this Cancon law in Canada, since your location says Canada, perhaps can gives your opinions on this. I know that YTV did not produce the dub, and it was going round that YTV were unhappy with the way Funimation were treating them, but they also need to consider the audience, they dont want to drive away people to the extent that not many would watch it, they had to take that into consideration. The fact that YTV kept the Ocean dub right to the end of the series suggests that it did well on YTV.

I don't know what went on in Schemmel's head, an actor who has never worked with Ocean group, not once, went on a bashing tangent over music changes on a dub that doesn't exist to begin with. It's not 1999, whatever Ocean Dragon Ball fan base there is these days, doesn't matter, TV Companies tend to aim for the current Younger generations when it comes to Cartoons and Anime, there's a new target audience for them to go after, and said audience likely never heard of of the Ocean Group, there isn't a need for an Ocean Dub of kai. There are a few things I don't like the FUNimation dub of kai, but it's the most accurate English dub of the Second half of Dragon Ball that you could ever hope for these days, though not quite as good as Pioneer Uncut Movies 1-3.

Its a bit difficult for someone who's worked on DBZ to not only say another dub is being produced but also describe some elements of it unless it exists, or he's lying.

Dragon Ball Kai is aimed at the DBZ fans as well as a new generation. That may explain the sloppy editing on the first few episodes, but that improved later on.

The Pioneer/Ocean dub of the first 3 movies is the best release DBZ has got in English, and unless an Ocean dub of Kai gets released on DVD/Blu ray with an accurate script and the Japanese score, its likely to remain the best. From what I've seen, the Pioneer movies blows Funi's Kai dub away.

There is not a single reason that an Ocean Dub Kai should ever need to exist.

Why not? because you prefer the Funimation dub?

The Westwood dub was never superior to the FUNimatin dub, only a fanboy believes that.

So is it not fanboyish to suggest that the Funimation dub is superior to the Westwood dub?

The fact that the Westwood Studios/Ocean dub contains the voices of quality actors and seasoned veterans such as Scott McNeil, Don Brown, Maggie Blue O'Hara, Brian Drummond, the Dobson brothers, Doc Harris, Ted Cole, Terry Klassan etc etc makes it superior, at least in my eyes (and ears) instead of using newcomers.

Dub Ratings

Dragon Ball (Blue Water Studios) C-
Dragon Ball (BLT productions) C
Dragon Ball Z (FUNimation/Ocean 1-53) C
Dragon Ball Z (Pioneer/Ocean/FUNimation Movies 1-3) A
Dragon Ball Z (Westwood 108-139) C
Dragon Ball Z (Westwood 140-276) C
Dragon Ball GT (Blue Water Studios) D

I find it hard to believe that the Ocean and Blue Water dubs would've continued if they received those ratings. Even though ABGroup and/or Toei Animation did a great fanservice by bringing back the Ocean cast, they, as well as Funimation, are in it for the money. If the Ocean and Blue Water dubs didnt bring in high ratings, they may have cancelled them because they're not going to throw money away. That was made more significant by the fact that the companies behind the Ocean and Blue Water Studios dubs relied solely on TV airings. (At least for now)

Accurate Scripts and Orginal score mean nothing when the voice acting is terrible.

I dont see how that has anything to do with the Ocean/Blue Water Studios dubs.

Good voice acting means nothing when the score is replaced, and the scripts are beyond messed up.

I disagree. But, I'd say that in some cases, a better voice cast isnt enough to make the dub better.

Case in point with Dragon Ball. The BLT productions dub has the better cast, but I find the Blue Water dub to be better, why? Because the Blue Water dub uses the original Japanese score and has an accurate script. The Blue water voices are also decent in their own right.

However with regards to Ocean's DBZ dub, I disagree with your view. The scripts were not the best, and at times they were messed up, and it didnt use the original Japanese score, but the voice performances made the dub incredibly good, and I found the Westwood music to be less annoying and grating than Faulconer music. So any way I look at it, the Westood Studios/Ocean dub of DBZ is better than the Funimation dub. I assume you like the Funimation dub.

Why is it that most people (at least from what I've seen/come across) prefer the heavily edited and censored Saban produced Ocean dub of DBZ seasons 1 and 2(collaborated with Funimation) over the uncut Funimation dub? It seems Ocean dub's better voice acting overrides a Funimation dub which is uncut and has a slightly more accurate script.

Westwood is part of the Ocean Group....... Blue Water Studios was created by Ken Morrison to bypass the British Columbia(Province) Acting union, wanted to save money, so he set up Blue Water in Calgary which is in another province(Alberta). The Core Ocean Cast were prepared to dub Dragon Ball Gt, but the rug was pulled from under them.

IIRC, it was one of the Dobson brothers who said that castings were under way for DBGT before it got moved over to Blue Water Studios.

So what's with the rumor that Ocean handled the video editing for the TV broadcast versions? Were they indeed credited for this (on the TV broadcast version; please don't check your DVD's credits)?

Its interesting that Funimation are still working with Ocean if that is the case, it may also explain how Sean has seen the Ocean Kai dub.

[jjgp1112]

I've never been a fan of the Ocean Dub. The Ocean Dub was the first thing I saw from DBZ, and then when I started regularly watching in 2001, the first episodes I saw were only 184-194, and then it switched over to the Ocean dub and I disliked it. They always sounded like they were struggling to speak and always unnecessarily drew out/elongated words. And Peter Kelamis sounds like a cheesy Saturday morning cartoon hero. Every time I watch the first 3 movies I'm waiting for him to bust out the cheesy speech about friendship and giving it 110%. Gah, thank God for Funi's dubs of the first three movies. Same script (for the most part, although Movie 3 used the edited script, unfortunately), but much better voice acting.

[Greenman]

I'd take FUNi's dub of GT with the techno score over the shit Blue Water dub anyday.

You'd take an inaccurate dub with a dull bgm over a dub which has the original Japanese bgm and a more accurate script?

I was under the impression that the Ocean dub basically used the FUNimation scripts with some alterations. Is this not true for the Blue Water dub of GT? Did they make a new translation?

[jjgp1112]

I'd take FUNi's dub of GT with the techno score over the shit Blue Water dub anyday.

You'd take an inaccurate dub with a dull bgm over a dub which has the original Japanese bgm and a more accurate script?

I was under the impression that the Ocean dub basically used the FUNimation scripts with some alterations. Is this not true for the Blue Water dub of GT? Did they make a new translation?

I believe the Blue Water dub of GT was done long before Funi's dub. It was the Westwood dub for episodes DBZ 104-291 that used Funi's scripts.

[Greenman]

I was under the impression that the Ocean dub basically used the FUNimation scripts with some alterations. Is this not true for the Blue Water dub of GT? Did they make a new translation?

I believe the Blue Water dub of GT was done long before Funi's dub. It was the Westwood dub for episodes DBZ 104-291 that used Funi's scripts.

Ah. That makes sense. I guess you can't use scripts that don't exist yet.

I guess my question should be "How accurate is the Blue Water dub's translation?"

[RazorX]

I'd take FUNi's dub of GT with the techno score over the shit Blue Water dub anyday.

You'd take an inaccurate dub with a dull bgm over a dub which has the original Japanese bgm and a more accurate script?

I was under the impression that the Ocean dub basically used the FUNimation scripts with some alterations. Is this not true for the Blue Water dub of GT? Did they make a new translation?

Blue Water created their own scripts for Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball. They were far more accurate to the original Japanese than Funi's DBGT and DB scripts as well as both Ocean and Funi's DBZ scripts. It was only for DBZ where the scripts for the Funi and Ocean dubs were virtually the same, with some changes here and there.

I believe the Blue Water dub of GT was done long before Funi's dub. It was the Westwood dub for episodes DBZ 104-291 that used Funi's scripts.

Yeah, IIRC Blue Water were well into DBGT broadcasts before Funi had even finished their DBZ broadcasts.

I guess my question should be "How accurate is the Blue Water dub's translation?"

It ranges from accurate to very accurate. There were some minor dialogue changes but nowhere near the extent of the DBZ scripts. Blue Water also kept the original names for the Evil dragons and for Dragon Ball, they kept original terms such as Nyoibo and Mafuba. Some of the dialogue is exactly the same as the Japanese, for example Chaozu talking about how this is the first time he's seen Tenshinhan try and he wants to see it to the end (In the tournament match against Goku where Hermit Crane is trying to force Chaozu to use his telekinesis to freeze both Tenshinhan and Goku)

[Puto]

Somewhat more accurate than FUNimation's dub for the most part, but in some parts it gets awkward. Also they renamed General Rild to "General Locke", yet on the other hand they kept the evil dragons' names, and they used "Tsufuls" instead of FUNimation's "Tuffles" and even kept the word "Oozaru" (though they mispronounced it as "Uuzaru" instead of "Ohzaru"). Mostly it's more accurate than FUNimation's dub, but there are a few episodes where they screwed up.

[RazorX]

Blue Water did keep Oozaru, but I dont remember them pronouncing it as Uuzaro (you za ru) they pronouced it like OoZaru. (as in oou za ru)

Blue Water also kept smaller details accurate, such as Chois sui water (sacred water in the Funimation dub)

[Velasa]

Did Ocean change the music for Gundam?

If we're talking Wing, I very distinctly remember hearing Japanese music playing on my tv for the first time completely un-fucked with during the run of the series. It was a beautiful experience.

The edited version of DBZ Movie 3; Tree of Might had Ian voicing Goku, so if you want to see how Ian would've handled the movies, edited movie 3 is your best bet.

I've actually been looking for this for a little while now *grins* Edited or not, I loved me some Ian.

[penguintruth]

Just out of interest, did Blue Water keep the original Japanese music for the Gundam shows they dubbed and did they use an accurate script? Did Ocean change the music for Gundam.

Of course they didn't change the music and had accurate scripts. But surely that's not your only standards for a dub, right?

Peter Kelamis sounds like a cheesy Saturday morning cartoon hero.

This is coming from a person who thinks Sean Schemmel is a good Goku? Oh god, my sides hurt from laughing.

Kelamis NAILS Goku at times. Sean Schemmel's is the generic male Saturday morning cartoon hero voice.

Those Ocean dubs of the first three DBZ movies are the best English dubs DBZ has ever had.

[jjgp1112]

Just out of interest, did Blue Water keep the original Japanese music for the Gundam shows they dubbed and did they use an accurate script? Did Ocean change the music for Gundam.

Of course they didn't change the music and had accurate scripts. But surely that's not your only standards for a dub, right?

Peter Kelamis sounds like a cheesy Saturday morning cartoon hero.

This is coming from a person who thinks Sean Schemmel is a good Goku? Oh god, my sides hurt from laughing.

Kelamis NAILS Goku at times. Sean Schemmel's is the generic male Saturday morning cartoon hero voice.

Those Ocean dubs of the first three DBZ movies are the best English dubs DBZ has ever had.

If you're gonna insult me for my opinion, the least you could do is actually explain why you think I'm wrong instead of saying, "You're wrong. Kelamis is awesome.. Unfortunately, the Ocean dub of Movie 1 was taken down, but here's a clip from the Funi dub:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS5WVWqg ... re=related

At around the 5 or 6 minute mark. I find it hard to believe that anyone could think Peter Kelamis did a good job in this scene. He overdelivered every line and made every line sound incredibly cheesy, whereas Sean Schemmel just does it normally. That's my main problem with kelamis. he sounds way too forced. Ian Corlett and Sean Schemmel were both a great deal better.

[penguintruth]

Surely you jest. Schemmel and Corlett were the stiff, growly, forced-sounding ones, and never captured Goku's spirit.

Listen to Kelamis in this clip. His voice, his delivery, this is more Goku than Corlett or Schemmel ever were:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5_TduZka-Y

[Mewzard]

That clip definitely reminds me how much more natural, and Goku like Schemmel sounds (especially now, with him having improved his work).

So, would they end up returning to Kirby Morrow as Goku? Or try for one of the old guard? *or, if not what they would do, what you would prefer*