Who is Stronger Questions

[Savage68]

It is the same process.

That doesn't make any sense. The initial process involved Buu running around and absorbing people, then changing his power/appearance in accordance to who he absorbed. The latter process involved Buu's absorbees being forcibly taken out of him, and his power/appearance changed in accordance to who was taken, except in reverse. Until he returned to normal.

Kid Buu absorbed Dai Kaioshin and South Kaioshin. Not Super Buu.

Indeed, but I wasn't talking about Kid Buu's power. I was talking about Super Buu's in comparison with Buff Buu's. And again, it didn't seem to be that big a gap between the two.

[Senzu_Bean]

... except in reverse.

Thus the Buff Buu we saw reverting to Kid Buu is the same Buu after Kid Buu absorbed South Kaioshin.

And again, it didn't seem to be that big a gap between the two.

Yes, it doesn't seem to be a big gap either.

[Savage68]

Thus the Buff Buu we saw reverting to Kid Buu is the same Buu after Kid Buu absorbed South Kaioshin.

If it's in reverse, the Dai Kaioshin is still inside of Buu when he's muscled-out. Since the Dai Kaioshin wasn't inside of Buu during the initial process, when he was muscled-out.

[Senzu_Bean]

Thus the Buff Buu we saw reverting to Kid Buu is the same Buu after Kid Buu absorbed South Kaioshin.

If it's in reverse, the Dai Kaioshin is still inside of Buu when he's muscled-out. Since the Dai Kaioshin wasn't inside of Buu during the initial process, when he was muscled-out.

Dai Kaioshin is inside of the original Buu, Fat Buu. Yep, don't ask me why Buff Buu appeared in that instance.

[Savage68]

So another Buu arc plothole.

[Senzu_Bean]

So another Buu arc plothole.

The only reason I can think is South Kaioshin went into Evil Buu when he separated from Fat Buu. But then he should be inside of Super Buu and he isn't.

[Kaboom]

Here's how I figure it works. Both the Kaioshin are now inside or a part of Fat Boo. He's essentially a combination of them in Boo-form. The South Kaioshin is providing power, while the Grand Kaioshin is holding it back. Super Boo has more power than Fat Boo or Kid Boo because since his evil side is stronger and in control, he's actually gained access to more of the South Kaioshin's power. But still not all of it since the Grand Kaioshin's influence is still there. Just lessened.

When Fat Boo and all his influence was removed, Super Boo simply just went through both the Kaioshin quickly in the process of reverting. First the Grand Kaioshin's effect faded, bumping his power all the way up to the full amount granted by South Kaioshin for just a moment. Then that influence also faded just as quickly as it appeared, and he reverted completely back, all the way down to Kid Boo.

Badabing. It's surprisingly uncomplicated.

[jjgp1112]

Here's how I figure it works. Both the Kaioshin are now inside or a part of Fat Boo. He's essentially a combination of them in Boo-form. The South Kaioshin is providing power, while the Grand Kaioshin is holding it back. Super Boo has more power than Fat Boo or Kid Boo because since his evil side is stronger and in control, he's actually gained access to more of the South Kaioshin's power. But still not all of it since the Grand Kaioshin's influence is still there. Just lessened.

When Fat Boo and all his influence was removed, Super Boo simply just went through both the Kaioshin quickly in the process of reverting. First the Grand Kaioshin's effect faded, bumping his power all the way up to the full amount granted by South Kaioshin for just a moment. Then that influence also faded just as quickly as it appeared, and he reverted completely back, all the way down to Kid Boo.

Badabing. It's surprisingly uncomplicated.

The thing that still confuses me, though, is how come (I'll put this in simple terms)...

Buu B (Mr. Buu) + Buu C (Evil Buu) = Buu D (Super Buu),

yet Buu D - Buu B = Buu A?!

Well, then again, like you said, the Evil half of Mr. Buu now took control and thus canceled outsome of the aspects of Mr. Boo, and then when he was removed, it completely canceled it out. Now it makes sense.

[Vegeta Jr]

Here is what everyone should have in mind.

When Gohan had become overwhelmed by Buu they were betting their lives on fusing Goku and Gohan.

Against Kid Buu they say without any fear whatsoever that they will fight ALONE, and they mean that 1v1 aswell not 2v1 (Goku + Vegeta vs Kid Buu). They mean Goku vs Kid Buu and Vegeta vs Kid Buu.

You see the difference?
Also last time I posted in this topic it was locked, why was it reopened?

Also to say why Super Buu became Kid Buu and not Fat Buu and Evil Buu again was discussed I believe in this very topic. Evil Buu simply ceased to exist after becoming Super Buu because he was only the physical embodiment of Fat Buu's (and so Kid Buu aswell) evil.

[Kaboom]

Also to say why Super Buu became Kid Buu and not Fat Buu and Evil Buu again was discussed I believe in this very topic. Evil Buu simply ceased to exist after becoming Super Buu because he was only the physical embodiment of Fat Buu's (and so Kid Buu aswell) evil.

Yep. The whole deal's similar to Kami and King Piccolo. Evil Boo was just an embodiment of evil, and not a complete being on his own. He regained that quality as a result of absorbing Mister Boo, and retained it even afterward when Mister Boo was ejected. Thus becoming Kid Boo again.

Fat Boo = "Boo-ness" + Good + Evil
Evil Boo = Evil
Mister Boo = "Boo-ness" + Good
Kid Boo = "Boo-ness" + Evil

[Godo]

I think it was mentioned once that due to Dai Kaioshin's good nature, Fat Buu's power was restricted. It was this good nature that worked on his mind and stopped him from using all his power.
Since Fat Buu is still fat after releasing Thin Buu, we can assume that he still holds Dai Kaioshin inside of him (we know that Buu takes the appearance of the one he absorbs).
Thus, when Thin Buu absorbs Mr. Buu, Dai Kaioshin's good nature doesn't have any effect on Super Buu, (since it's still only working on Mr. Buu) hence the restrictions are no more.
And since Thin + Fat = Normal, Super Buu's body became perfect.

[Xyex]

The thing that still confuses me, though, is how come (I'll put this in simple terms)...

Buu B (Mr. Buu) + Buu C (Evil Buu) = Buu D (Super Buu),

yet Buu D - Buu B = Buu A?!

Well, then again, like you said, the Evil half of Mr. Buu now took control and thus canceled outsome of the aspects of Mr. Boo, and then when he was removed, it completely canceled it out. Now it makes sense.

I think the problem is that people are looking at this as an "A goes into B, B turns into C, A gets pulled out of C, so why doesn't C become B again?" thing. And it's actually not.

Super Buu isn't just an evil Buu shell wrapped around a Fat Buu core. When Evil Buu absorbed Fat Buu (or rather, ate him, the only instance we see of this actually leading to the individual being stored inside a Buu-pod) he didn't just take Fat Buu, shove him in a pod, and store him away like he did with the others. He completely re-arranged the inner workings of him.

Evil Buu is not distinct being of his own, not really. Fat Buu didn't expel the actual Kid Buu from his make-up, he expelled the evil essence from himself and he gave it a body made from part of himself. (Oh geez, I just realized, he makes Buubie in practically the same way, just without forcing his evil into her. XD) So Evil Buu is a Fat Buu creation more than a distinct being. Fat Buu, now "Mr. Buu" still holds inside him everything he'd had before. He's still got Kid Buu, he's still got the South Kaioshin, and he's still got the Dai Kaioshin. The 'evil' is just inside the new body.

So then, when Evil Buu absorbs Mr. Buu the two merge completely. There is no Fat Buu inside a Buu-pod at first. But the evil wants to lock up the good in him, so he re-orders things. He leaves Kid Buu as fully merged with him and takes the two Kaioshin and shoves them into a small bit of himself, which becomes a new Mr. Buu that he shoves into a Buu-pod to draw power from. So now, we've not got an Evil Buu who has Mr. Buu in him but, rather, a Kid Buu who has Mr. Buu in him. Thus, removing Mr. Buu reverts him into Kid Buu.

[hleV]

• Kid Buu - the original Buu. Pure evil, pure stupidness.
• Buff Buu - Kid Buu with South Kaioshin absorbed (otherwise how would Buu became so "buffy" if it wasn't for South Kaioshin?). Buu becomes more intelligent and Kaioshin's strength is added to his.
• Fat Buu - Buff Buu with Dai Kaioshin absorbed. Due to Dai Kaioshin's abnormal peaceful-mindness and energy Buu becomes weaker and playful. Most of Kid Buu's evilness fades away and is replaced with Dai Kaioshin's goodness.
• Mr. Buu - the good side of Fat Buu.
• Evil Buu - the evil side of Fat Buu, which went out taking the bigger part of Fat Buu's strength. I believe that his mind contains some or all of Kid Buu and some or all of South and possibly Dai Kaioshin's mind, which makes him more intelligent.
• Super Buu - Evil Buu who ate Mr. Buu. Evil Buu managed and trapped Mr. Buu inside him, taking his strength and intelligence, thus transforming into Super Buu.

Any flaws for this explanation?

[rereboy]

• Kid Buu - the original Buu. Pure evil, pure stupidness.
• Buff Buu - Kid Buu with South Kaioshin absorbed (otherwise how would Buu became so "buffy" if it wasn't for South Kaioshin?). Buu becomes more intelligent and Kaioshin's strength is added to his.
• Fat Buu - Buff Buu with Dai Kaioshin absorbed. Due to Dai Kaioshin's abnormal peaceful-mindness and energy Buu becomes weaker and playful. Most of Kid Buu's evilness fades away and is replaced with Dai Kaioshin's goodness.
• Mr. Buu - the good side of Fat Buu.
• Evil Buu - the evil side of Fat Buu, which went out taking the bigger part of Fat Buu's strength. I believe that his mind contains some or all of Kid Buu and some or all of South and possibly Dai Kaioshin's mind, which makes him more intelligent.
• Super Buu - Evil Buu who ate Mr. Buu. Evil Buu managed and trapped Mr. Buu inside him, taking his strength and intelligence, thus transforming into Super Buu.

Any flaws for this explanation?

None.

The only problem is how to explain why Super Buu reverted back to Kid Buu and not Evil Buu.

[hleV]

The only problem is how to explain why Super Buu reverted back to Kid Buu and not Evil Buu.

This needs a good analysis o_O.

[rereboy]

Logically it doesn`t make any sense. He should have just reverted back to evil Buu.

My personal explanation is that by forcefully removing all the ones he had absorbed, they caused enough trauma to Buu`s inner workings and magic to have him revert back fully to his original state.

Like a computer, his system crashed and the only solution to deal with it was a reboot.

[Bussani]

The only problem is how to explain why Super Buu reverted back to Kid Buu and not Evil Buu.

This needs a good analysis o_O.

I think Kaboom already gave a good analysis, which I pretty much agree with. I don't really see Evil Buu as much of a real Buu at all. He's more like a manifestation of the evil that Fat Buu expelled--certainly not the original Buu. He was Buu's dark side, and his fight with Buu and how he devoured him seems almost symbolic, like the struggle could have taken place in Buu's mind, had Toriyama wished it to. It was one half of Buu taking control. Triggering the chain reaction that returned Buu to his original state was something completely different.

[Majin Buu]

The only problem is how to explain why Super Buu reverted back to Kid Buu and not Evil Buu.

This needs a good analysis o_O.

Several people, myself included have given a pretty good explanation (or variations of it).

The people that wonder why he turned into Kid Buu instead of Evil Buu seem to view Evil Buu as an individual form of Buu rather than an extention of Fat/Mr. Buu that effectively ceased to exist once he and Mr. Buu rejoined.

What it boils down to is what Kaboom and Xyex said: Evil Buu isn't a complete, distinct being of his own. He's just the physical manifestation of Buu's evil.

[Dayspring]

Logically it doesn`t make any sense. He should have just reverted back to evil Buu.

Not at all. Xyex hit the nail on the head in saying he reworked his body. The other assimilations aren't at all similar to the transformation we see when Skinny absorbs Fat. Under normal circumstances, one of the following would have occured:
1) Nothing. He ate Mr Boo, not assimilated Mr Boo. (Most likely)
2) Since Mr Boo is JUST goodness and Skinny just evil, absorbing him should have been like when Buff Boo absorbed Dai Kaioshin, only substancially weaker, since Skinny is much weaker than Buff.
3) Transformed into a hybrid of Mr+Skinny, but with strength equal to Fat Boo, since straight addition's how all non-Dai Kaioshin assimilations work. (least likely)

Since Skinny released a ton of Boo gas only for this assimilation, and since he ate, not assimilated Mr Boo, I see the Boo gas being released as being proof of what Xyex said: basically Skinny transformed himself into something capable of reverting Chocolate Boo into an assimilated Mr Boo. That finished product was Buff Boo. Buff Boo assimilating Mr Boo is not completely the same as absorbing Dai Kaioshin, so rather than rebecoming Fat Boo, he becomes Super. Super Boo - Mr Boo = Buff Boo, but because Mr Boo has the South Kaioshin in him, Buff Boo wasn't able to maintain the Buff stage and immediately reverted to Kid.



As for the argument that South Kaioshin shouldn't be that much stronger than (East or West, I always forget) Kaioshin, I don't see why that has to be. Just because they're the same race doesn't mean they should be close in strength. Tenshinhan managed to hold back Semi-Perfect Cell and is the same race as Bulma, but that doesn't mean Bulma could go toe-to-toe to with Imperfect Cell. I mean, hell, look at the beefcake Kid Boo became after assimilating the South Kaioshin. That means the dude's a friggin' beast, and it's not like Kaioshins would be nothing but muscle.

[rereboy]

No, the most logical answer to what would happen (if we were watching it for the first time) would be that he would revert to who he was before he absorbed Good Buu.

Since that didn`t happen and it was not explained at all in the series, we are forced to find theories on exactly why that was the case (I have my own, you have your own, etc).

It only starts to make sense after we come up with a personal theory that somehow explains it.

Thats why I stated that logically it didn`t make sense, but I have my theory to explain it and make it logical. Get it?