Yes that is generally the list I created my basis around. Of course, I had to make improvements upon that list, but that is my starting point, at least for the most part. The starting point allows me to have a general look at where the fighters should stand. Then with statements in the manga, and their implications, I adjusted those numbers to suit their manga counterparts, and statements.
Either way, that is definitley where you want to start out, and any power level guy should definitley be aware of that list and incorporate it into their logic. That being said, it is not perfect, and it's intended use, as a guide, should be it's realistic use. It's not the end all be all, my numbers for example, are leaps and bounds beyond those. Yet at the end of the day, my numbers as well , should only be looked at as a guide. There will never be perfection, our only hope is to provide a good general range of power for the manga.
Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I've noticed that this list implies that Goku didn't gain any power within the 7 year gap between Cell and Boo (Aside from his transformations, of course). Can anyone explain the logic behind this? Surely he trained rigorously in the Other World.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
That's from people taking MSSJ too seriously. People assume Goku said he hit his limit in the Cell Games, and since nothing is stated about him improving his SSJ in the Buu Saga, it must be the same.
The implications in the Buu Saga imply that all forms correlate. And this logic, would supercede the logic presented at the Cell games.
So logically
Goku ( Buu ) > Kid Gohan > Goku ( Cell )
Is the only logical POV on the matter. No need to specify form, as all forms should correlate. AT does not sit there with a calculator and figure out varying multipliers for each character. The simplest POV and the statements all imply in complete correlation between all forms.
The implications in the Buu Saga imply that all forms correlate. And this logic, would supercede the logic presented at the Cell games.
So logically
Goku ( Buu ) > Kid Gohan > Goku ( Cell )
Is the only logical POV on the matter. No need to specify form, as all forms should correlate. AT does not sit there with a calculator and figure out varying multipliers for each character. The simplest POV and the statements all imply in complete correlation between all forms.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I understand. So then, the picture of Goku that's listed at 3,000,000,000 should actually be Boo saga Goku?
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
It's definitley drawn as Cell Games Goku.
But man, I didn't even look at the Cell to Buu Saga numbers. And you know what, these numbers are highly highly accurate. They are nearly an exact duplicate of mine.
Wow...
Anyway back on topic...
They took the 800 Kiri as 800 million, a POV I think is a good approach, and might have to rework my entire number sheet to fit. But then when I look back at their earlier work, it shows they are almost always off by just a bit. But highly highly accurate work here.
If you notice, they even use the proper SEG multipliers.
SSJ Goku 3 billion
SSJ3 Goku 24 billion
Wow this guide is definitley great stuff man.
If you check mine they will have a similar range.
I have Goku/Gohan at 5/6 billion they have it at 2.5/3 billion
They are using Kiri method if you look
Yakon 800
SSJ Goku 3000
Very good stuff. Couple of issues, but very good nonetheless. This, should be spread to everyone. Thanks for posting it.
But man, I didn't even look at the Cell to Buu Saga numbers. And you know what, these numbers are highly highly accurate. They are nearly an exact duplicate of mine.
Wow...
Anyway back on topic...
They took the 800 Kiri as 800 million, a POV I think is a good approach, and might have to rework my entire number sheet to fit. But then when I look back at their earlier work, it shows they are almost always off by just a bit. But highly highly accurate work here.
If you notice, they even use the proper SEG multipliers.
SSJ Goku 3 billion
SSJ3 Goku 24 billion
Wow this guide is definitley great stuff man.
If you check mine they will have a similar range.
I have Goku/Gohan at 5/6 billion they have it at 2.5/3 billion
They are using Kiri method if you look
Yakon 800
SSJ Goku 3000
Very good stuff. Couple of issues, but very good nonetheless. This, should be spread to everyone. Thanks for posting it.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Not a problem, I'm actually trying to make a list based on this one at the moment. However, the biggest problem I'm facing is what I discussed earlier, Goku's power not increasing during the 7 year gap. Furthermore, although Goku surrendered his fight with Cell to Gohan, he proved to be a much better match than Gohan was (despite his not wanting to fight), and so, I think that 3,000,000,000 and 2,500,000,000 fit them just fine. Therefore, I think it's safe to assume that Goku was only relying on Gohan's transforming capabilities and not his SSJ1 power alone.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
That's no accurate though... Manga > VJump list. Which is what I meant. They are not perfect. But they are in the general range of where the powers should be. They make many mistakes , but that's not the point, their mistakes aren't too far off, is the point.
Honestly, your better off using my list as the true guide. My list would immediately replace this one, in any guidebook, if I could ever get in contact with them. Is there anyway to get in touch with these guys?
You would have to use...
Goku ( Cell ) 2 billion
Gohan 2.5
Goku ( buu ) 3 billion
No other way around it. Gohan is flat out superior to Goku at the Cell games.
You do see what they are doing right? They are trying to make kiri 800 = 800 billion.
Which confirms the SSJ multiplier did decrease, at least in Vjumps mind.
Honestly, your better off using my list as the true guide. My list would immediately replace this one, in any guidebook, if I could ever get in contact with them. Is there anyway to get in touch with these guys?
You would have to use...
Goku ( Cell ) 2 billion
Gohan 2.5
Goku ( buu ) 3 billion
No other way around it. Gohan is flat out superior to Goku at the Cell games.
You do see what they are doing right? They are trying to make kiri 800 = 800 billion.
Which confirms the SSJ multiplier did decrease, at least in Vjumps mind.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
And what exactly, from the first half of Cell and Gohan's fight, proved that Gohan was absolutely superior to Goku in power? (Besides the comments that were made at the beginning of the fight) Gohan was completely tossed around like a ragdoll while Goku managed to fight evenly, somewhat. (I have also taken into consideration Gohan's lack of will to fight)
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Cmon man, have you not read the manga?
Cell didn't use his real speed against Goku. Goku flat out states Gohan > Goku. Gohan didn't even think his dad was going all out against Cell. He was not impressed by Goku vs Cell. He was not impressed by 50% Goku. He's just flat out not impressed with Goku's power. Cell confirms Gohan > Goku.
Ah, you guys miss the point again. The guides are just that, they are helpful resources, when I have to start explaining the mistakes with the guides, that you guys argue are true, just because it's a guide, is when I hate them.
Manga >>>>>>>>>>>> Any Guide
When a guide trumps something in the manga, it is flat out wrong. The point is the general range they are wrong by, is usually not that much.
Cell didn't use his real speed against Goku. Goku flat out states Gohan > Goku. Gohan didn't even think his dad was going all out against Cell. He was not impressed by Goku vs Cell. He was not impressed by 50% Goku. He's just flat out not impressed with Goku's power. Cell confirms Gohan > Goku.
Ah, you guys miss the point again. The guides are just that, they are helpful resources, when I have to start explaining the mistakes with the guides, that you guys argue are true, just because it's a guide, is when I hate them.
Manga >>>>>>>>>>>> Any Guide
When a guide trumps something in the manga, it is flat out wrong. The point is the general range they are wrong by, is usually not that much.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Ahhh ok, ok, now I'm convinced. Looks like I'll have to read that part over again. Also, it looks like I'll have to revise most of my Android saga power levels to match Goku's 2 bill. 
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Don't do it! Realize what they are doing first, before you do anything crazy.
They set up their numbers to match the kiri readings on yakon /SSJ Goku. They want to make 800 kiri = 800 million. It's a great idea, it really is. But to factually show everything it's just not going to work...
I have both kiri and scouter charts.
800 kiri = 1 billion in my charts. It's close to the Vjump numbers as you can see.
If I were you, study the VJump numbers and study mine.
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t158 ... wer-chart/
All the answers are there. You just gotta find them. Check the youtube videos as well, I explain nearly every issue needed to be explained.
They set up their numbers to match the kiri readings on yakon /SSJ Goku. They want to make 800 kiri = 800 million. It's a great idea, it really is. But to factually show everything it's just not going to work...
I have both kiri and scouter charts.
800 kiri = 1 billion in my charts. It's close to the Vjump numbers as you can see.
If I were you, study the VJump numbers and study mine.
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t158 ... wer-chart/
All the answers are there. You just gotta find them. Check the youtube videos as well, I explain nearly every issue needed to be explained.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Looks like a strong list. I'll be posting mine shortly. I didn't make the gap quite as large as 500,000,000 between Goku and Gohan...nonetheless, the gap is there. I'll be posting BP's for only the last two arcs as they are the hardest to calculate.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Vegeta IMO is implied to be above Goku Cell and less than Kid Gohan. So there should be ample space between Kid Gohan > Vegeta > Goku Cell.
Hey can you help me get in contact with VJump? Do you know of anyone? I think I want to write my own book, or have a Vjump special regarding the information I can present. I think I know Dragonball better than anyone power wise, and I am 100% confident I can convince VJump to fix their inaccuricies. Hell I might do my own book, I would definitley like to make money off of this stuff.
Who can help me? Does anyone know if any of AT's editors speak English?
Hey can you help me get in contact with VJump? Do you know of anyone? I think I want to write my own book, or have a Vjump special regarding the information I can present. I think I know Dragonball better than anyone power wise, and I am 100% confident I can convince VJump to fix their inaccuricies. Hell I might do my own book, I would definitley like to make money off of this stuff.
Who can help me? Does anyone know if any of AT's editors speak English?
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Alright, I'm gonna start my list from the Trunks Arc. The reason I've chosen to do so is because I find the BP's for the first half of DBZ are far easier to calculate, as majority of the powers are already stated in the manga, daizenshuu, etc. I'll be stopping this list at the end of the Cell Games, since I'm still working on my Boo Arc list. Also, I'd like to note this list as the basis for my numbers. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... epower.JPG
Anyway, here's my list:
End of Namek:
SSJ Son Goku: 150,000,000
Freeza, 100%: 120,000,000
Trunks Arc:
Trunks: 3,500,000
SSJ Trunks: 175,000,000
Mecha Freeza: 135,000,000
King Cold: 90,000,000
Son Goku: 4,000,000
SSJ Goku: 200,000,000
Android Arc:
Goku: 5,000,000
Piccolo (suppressed): 50,000,000 (let himself be "beaten" by #20 on purpose)
Tenshinhan: 150,000
Kuririn: 125,000
Yamcha: 100,000
Android 19: 50,000,000 (his power increases with each absorption)
SSJ Goku: 250,000,000 (his power slowly decreases because of his heart condition)
Vegeta: 5,500,000
SSJ Vegeta: 275,000,000
Android 20: 75,000,000 (his power increases with each absorption)
Piccolo: 120,000,000
Gohan: 500,000
Trunks: 4,500,000
Android 18: 275,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 225,000,000
Android 17: 360,000,000
Cell Arc:
Piccolo (fused with Kami): 360,000,000
Cell: 237,500,000
Android 17: 360,000,000
Cell (after absorbing many humans): 475,000,000
Android 16: 475,000,000
Imperfect Cell: 835,000,000
Vegeta: 13,500,000
SSJ Vegeta: 675,000,000
Super Vegeta: 1,012,500,000
Trunks: 13,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 650,000,000
Super Trunks: 975,000,000
Perfect Cell (suppressed): 1,110,000,000
Ultra Trunks: 1,300,000,000
Cell Games:
SSJ Goku (half power): 1,125,000,000
SSJ Goku: 2,250,000,000
Perfect Cell: 4,000,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 2,500,000,000
Cell Jr: 1,150,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 1,350,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 1,300,000,000
Piccolo: 720,000,000
Tenshinhan: 300,000
Kuririn: 250,000
Yamcha: 200,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 5,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 6,000,000,000
Well, what do you think?
Anyway, here's my list:
End of Namek:
SSJ Son Goku: 150,000,000
Freeza, 100%: 120,000,000
Trunks Arc:
Trunks: 3,500,000
SSJ Trunks: 175,000,000
Mecha Freeza: 135,000,000
King Cold: 90,000,000
Son Goku: 4,000,000
SSJ Goku: 200,000,000
Android Arc:
Goku: 5,000,000
Piccolo (suppressed): 50,000,000 (let himself be "beaten" by #20 on purpose)
Tenshinhan: 150,000
Kuririn: 125,000
Yamcha: 100,000
Android 19: 50,000,000 (his power increases with each absorption)
SSJ Goku: 250,000,000 (his power slowly decreases because of his heart condition)
Vegeta: 5,500,000
SSJ Vegeta: 275,000,000
Android 20: 75,000,000 (his power increases with each absorption)
Piccolo: 120,000,000
Gohan: 500,000
Trunks: 4,500,000
Android 18: 275,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 225,000,000
Android 17: 360,000,000
Cell Arc:
Piccolo (fused with Kami): 360,000,000
Cell: 237,500,000
Android 17: 360,000,000
Cell (after absorbing many humans): 475,000,000
Android 16: 475,000,000
Imperfect Cell: 835,000,000
Vegeta: 13,500,000
SSJ Vegeta: 675,000,000
Super Vegeta: 1,012,500,000
Trunks: 13,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 650,000,000
Super Trunks: 975,000,000
Perfect Cell (suppressed): 1,110,000,000
Ultra Trunks: 1,300,000,000
Cell Games:
SSJ Goku (half power): 1,125,000,000
SSJ Goku: 2,250,000,000
Perfect Cell: 4,000,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 2,500,000,000
Cell Jr: 1,150,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 1,350,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 1,300,000,000
Piccolo: 720,000,000
Tenshinhan: 300,000
Kuririn: 250,000
Yamcha: 200,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 5,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 6,000,000,000
Well, what do you think?
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
@uzuni & p123, as long, as you know, that scan of Fight/Battle Powers is fake, then I'm fine with it. V Jump didn't make it, some random fans, who doesn't know much japanese did.
@uzuni
Why are the earthlings so low?
I know it's a stretch, but I have all of them close to a million or higher, since Tenshinhan has too much reserve ki, if he isn't close to a million IMO(1000 multiplier or something at least, if we go by your example).
@uzuni
Why are the earthlings so low?
I know it's a stretch, but I have all of them close to a million or higher, since Tenshinhan has too much reserve ki, if he isn't close to a million IMO(1000 multiplier or something at least, if we go by your example).
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I dunno, I always thought that even beating the Ginyu force was a bit of a stretch for the earthlings. (Never mind the filler episode) Powers of over 1,000,000 is really pushing it if you ask me...even for Tenshinhan.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
He was able to dodge Gero's laser beam..uzuni wrote:I dunno, I always thought that even beating the Ginyu force was a bit of a stretch for the earthlings. (Never mind the filler episode) Powers of over 1,000,000 is really pushing it if you ask me...even for Tenshinhan.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I'm not too familiar with the anime...but I'm certain Gero never shot at Ten in the manga. Besides, a more impressive feat would be trapping Cell and distracting Boo...nevertheless, his power doesn't increase anywhere close to a million for me.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
He just dodged it for kicks then?uzuni wrote:I'm not too familiar with the anime...but I'm certain Gero never shot at Ten in the manga. Besides, a more impressive feat would be trapping Cell and distracting Boo...nevertheless, his power doesn't increase anywhere close to a million for me.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Oh come on, man. It's not like he aimed at him. He simply avoided it. I'm sure even Kame-Sen'nin would be able to do that. This proves nothing about his battle power.