Dragon Box vs Original Broadcast - The Audio

[Ajay]

3) This one is contingent on the previous one happening, but I'd like to see this 5.1 remix that keeps getting thrown around here. I can't remember what the limits to doing it were but it was something like having CD-quality BGM in the L + R channels and broadcast-quality voices in the center channel. I'm a bit of an audiophile so I enjoy the thought of having this available.

Just... no. Not going to happen. The fact delusional people keep saying it could happen doesn't equate to any sort of reality.

Actually, that one came about through Chris Sabat, not any delusional fan. Though I agree, it's unlikely given the size of such a project, I don't think it's exactly fair to start badmouthing people for being moderately optimistic.

Outside of that, sure, you're not wrong. You're being needlessly confrontational and rude, but you're not wrong.

[MarcFBR]

Actually, that one came about through Chris Sabat, not any delusional fan. Though I agree, it's unlikely given the size of such a project, I don't think it's exactly fair to start badmouthing people for being moderately optimistic.

Outside of that, sure, you're not wrong. You're being needlessly confrontational and rude, but you're not wrong.

Sabat saying something is possible doesn't necessarily mean it's realistic, should be done or most importantly, will be done. (And of course, the conversation was about what Toei would do, not Funimation and Sabat.)

How many years into people bringing up the same points that aren't really realistic should politeness be considered?

I haven't yet begun to mock people for looking at ancient NTSC tapes for color accuracy when NTSC itself has been mocked for a very long time about issues in dealing with color accuracy (there are articles from nearly 30 years ago alone talking about how with HDTV we will finally get accurate colors.)

Slightly confrontational? Sure. Rude? Ehh... I'm being realistic. Whether people can accept it or not is on them. If I wanted to be rude I would have used bad language, called people stupid, etc. I gave facts based on how he presented them (him pointing out how logical he's being, etc.)

[Ajay]

Sabat saying something is possible doesn't necessarily mean it's realistic, should be done or most importantly, will be done. (And of course, the conversation was about what Toei would do, not Funimation and Sabat.)

How many years into people bringing up the same points that aren't really realistic should politeness be considered?

At all times. They're not a hivemind, and bypassing the need for politeness doesn't exactly align itself with what I understand Kanzenshuu's forums to be about. As a moderator, I'm surprised that's not something you value.

Someone lacking an understanding on a subject and bringing up points you're tired off shouldn't result in them being called delusional, among other things. Surely it's better to be polite and informative rather than resorting to mocking them for their ignorance. Being informed shouldn't mean you have the right to belittle others less aware. I've been very guilty of it in the past, but my most successful attempts at enlightenment have always been from being polite. There's much less push-back from a kind post than one that goes out of its way to insult.

If they're unresponsive following that, then I can understand your default post style being far more acceptable.

I haven't yet begun to mock people for looking at ancient NTSC tapes for color accuracy when NTSC itself has been mocked for a very long time about issues in dealing with color accuracy (there are articles from nearly 30 years ago alone talking about how with HDTV we will finally get accurate colors.)

You have no need to mock them. You're seemingly assuming the worst of these people. I don't know of anyone who's strictly using those tapes as sole points of reference. If you're referring to me (I did recently post in a colour-topic using them to back up an argument), I'm certainly not ignorant to the flaws of those tapes, and I highly doubt anyone is genuinely going to consider VHS to be a perfect point of reference.

Let's not dismiss them entirely though. They are a helpful reference point to put up against official promo material from Toei, not to mention the use when cross-referencing cels. In my case, they were exceptionally great for determining the correct sky colour for those significantly shifted episodes in the Saiyan arc. Where's the harm in that? Either way, please don't assume the worst for those who dare to post a VHS shot.

99% of the time, I always agree with what you post, but I do feel you can be a realist without coming across like a bit of a douche in the process. I'm well aware of how annoying it is to constantly read ignorant, entitled posts regarding home releases, but I really don't think this is the best way of going about solving it.

[kei17]

Try these links:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-jGA3 ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-jGA3 ... sp=sharing

DB episode 1 seems to be from a rerun on a local channel, but the other one surely is the original broadcast. Sadly, the recordings are not in good condition, though.

[MarcFBR]

At all times. They're not a hivemind, and bypassing the need for politeness doesn't exactly align itself with what I understand Kanzenshuu's forums to be about. As a moderator, I'm surprised that's not something you value.

Well first, I appreciate the roundabout passive aggressiveness. And second, do you see a tag under my name suggesting I'm a mod? So... swing and a miss I guess.

Someone lacking an understanding on a subject and bringing up points you're tired off shouldn't result in them being called delusional, among other things. Surely it's better to be polite and informative rather than resorting to mocking them for their ignorance. Being informed shouldn't mean you have the right to belittle others less aware. I've been very guilty of it in the past, but my most successful attempts at enlightenment have always been from being polite. There's much less push-back from a kind post than one that goes out of its way to insult.

Except the person I was talking to was expressing their thoughts presented in a way that wasn't "well I'm not sure, but here is what I expect to happen." Going through their list piece by piece isn't rude. And I wasn't calling him delusional. I was referring to others who have brought up in the past how it would not only be reasonable to expect it, but that it wouldn't even be that hard to do (multiple people on multiple websites have even thrown up mockups going "I did this at home in 5 minutes, they should be expected to do it" ignoring the actual quality of what they did.

If they're unresponsive following that, then I can understand your default post style being far more acceptable.

Again, his information was presented in a manner suggesting thought, effort, research, etc.

You have no need to mock them. You're seemingly assuming the worst of these people. I don't know of anyone who's strictly using those tapes as sole points of reference. If you're referring to me (I did recently post in a colour-topic using them to back up an argument), I'm certainly not ignorant to the flaws of those tapes, and I highly doubt anyone is genuinely going to consider VHS to be a perfect point of reference.

Bad wordage on my part. You said badmouthing, not mocking. I was more pointing out if I was really going to be rude, I easily could have. And yes, many people certainly are looking at ancient tapes as references for colors. A good chunk of the color correction thread and discussion about color correction on the board is based on the assumption that tapes between 20 and 30 years old are accurate guides of what color should be.

Let's not dismiss them entirely though. They are a helpful reference point to put up against official promo material from Toei, not to mention the use when cross-referencing cels. In my case, they were exceptionally great for determining the correct sky colour for those significantly shifted episodes in the Saiyan arc. Where's the harm in that? Either way, please don't assume the worst for those who dare to post a VHS shot.

When people post the shot and then start to analyze the color in comparison to screenshots from DVDs, BDs, etc. then it's quite easy to assume the worst. The tapes are at best a tool. Plenty of people look at them as an actual guide of what should be looked at for color correcting the show. When you take into account that simply changing a channel often through off NTSC color like no one's business, and that these color settings generally had to be repeated on a VHS player (and often had to be redone each time you watched a tape to some degree since the colors would shift) I find using them for color correction purposes to be more than a bit strange. NTSC literally has THREE nicknames used by professionals for many years to describe just how poor dealing with NTSC and color is (No True Skin Colors, Never The Same Color, Never Twice the Same Color.)

99% of the time, I always agree with what you post, but I do feel you can be a realist without coming across like a bit of a douche in the process. I'm well aware of how annoying it is to constantly read ignorant, entitled posts regarding home releases, but I really don't think this is the best way of going about solving it.

Again, I didn't actually say anything rude. If they don't like it, they are free to find information to prove me wrong and I will admit my mistake and move on. Otherwise, it's effectively whining that they don't like how the information was presented (not that he complained, you did. I'm sure if he has a problem with what I said to him he can comment to me himself. I have no issue listening and taking feedback, in this case I believe it to be unwarranted.)

[Bardo117]

Dude chill you kinda are being rude

[clutchins]

Well, shoot. I didn't mean to cause the Trojan War here.

Anyway, I know some of those points were pipe dreams but I still hold by my prediction that some kind of HD remaster for Blu-ray will happen within the next five years.

[Ajay]

Well first, I appreciate the roundabout passive aggressiveness. And second, do you see a tag under my name suggesting I'm a mod? So... swing and a miss I guess.

Passive aggression was not my intention. I'm pretty assertive when I'm annoyed.

I've seen you described as a 'quasi-admin' by staff and have occasionally seen you exercise that title. If I'm wrong then that's a poor assumption on my part and I can only apologise.

But look, I don't disagree with anything you've said, really. And that's usually the case, as previously mentioned. At the core of my ramblings, I'm simply asking whether you could perhaps be a little less abrasive on the whole. A tad hypocritical coming from me, but hey, I'm working on it! If I'm misinterpreting your posts, and by the sounds it, perhaps I am, then I'll shut up and move on. I'm just not a fan of omnislashing to throw out short, blunt remarks in response to people. It doesn't really come across well. Especially when I feel like it's littered with some rather unfair generalisations.

I picked up on this example mostly because I felt lumped in with your 'delusional' category for simply believing Sabat might actually push to use the audio. Given what was relayed to me by those who actually handled presenting him with it, I didn't feel my optimism was unfounded nor anywhere close to delusional. I'm not ignorant of the fact that there's a tiny market for it, but I'd like to believe that Sabat's promising words can at least let me be the tiniest bit optimistic given his presence in the industry. He may not be the one deciding on home releases, but he's more than willing to exercise his sway should the opportunity arise.

I still hold by my prediction that some kind of HD remaster for Blu-ray will happen within the next five years.

From speaking to someone with a Toei contact, I've been lead to believe that Kai is what Toei considers their HD Dragon Ball product. That was the case at the end of Kai's initial run and that's likely where their focus still is; given the new Boo boxes and Saiyan-Cell releases.

They had zero interest in the audio, and given their recent lack of budget with Kai, I can't imagine they have much interest in spending money on Z any time soon. But hey, who knows what might happen further down the line? I never expected to get an Evangelion Blu-ray box, but look what's coming this summer!

[MarcFBR]

I've seen you described as a 'quasi-admin' by staff and have occasionally seen you exercise that title. If I'm wrong then that's a poor assumption on my part and I can only apologise.

Quasi-admin would not be an overly wrong statement. But I'm not a mod, nor do I moderate even as a 'quasi-admin.' I jump into conversations feet first, which would lead to it being odd if I was moderating myself or people I was arguing with.

I'm just not a fan of omnislashing to throw out short, blunt remarks in response to people. It doesn't really come across well. Especially when I feel like it's littered with some rather unfair generalisations.

When responding to often long posts with multiple points, it comes across better than just a wall of text, especially when I'm trying to respond to multiple points they've made.

I picked up on this example mostly because I felt lumped in with your 'delusional' category for simply believing Sabat might actually push to use the audio. Given what was relayed to me by those who actually handled presenting him with it, I didn't feel my optimism was unfounded nor anywhere close to delusional. I'm not ignorant of the fact that there's a tiny market for it, but I'd like to believe that Sabat's promising words can at least let me be the tiniest bit optimistic given his presence in the industry. He may not be the one deciding on home releases, but he's more than willing to exercise his sway should the opportunity arise.

I feel like there is a misunderstanding of what he was suggesting versus what you want. Unless I misunderstood his post, he was talking about remixing the Japanese audio with CD BGM to create a 5.1 Japanese mix. You are talking about using old recordings based on previously existing masters that sound better than the current masters. I see that as slightly crazy, but certainly not impossible, especially since Sabat has seemed amicable to at least seeing what could be done.

I never expected to get an Evangelion Blu-ray box, but look what's coming this summer!

Honestly, getting one at some point seemed sort of obvious to me, but I always figured they'd wait until after the new movies were done.

[Attitudefan]

How many years into people bringing up the same points that aren't really realistic should politeness be considered?

The forum rules would like to say hello, my good sir! Being polite is the whole thing about this forum.

[MarcFBR]

How many years into people bringing up the same points that aren't really realistic should politeness be considered?

The forum rules would like to say hello, my good sir! Being polite is the whole thing about this forum.

Politeness has it's limits.

Especially since if the rules were to be taken hyper literally a good number of signatures would be removed, along with multiple members based on bootleg conversations, or making posts in various threads that are just baiting other members for reactions.

Of course, rule 7 also says to leave moderation (aka dealing of the rules) to the staff and that the rules are not meant to be taken literally so before you quote them you might want to give them a quick once over.

[Attitudefan]

How many years into people bringing up the same points that aren't really realistic should politeness be considered?

The forum rules would like to say hello, my good sir! Being polite is the whole thing about this forum.

Politeness has it's limits.

Especially since if the rules were to be taken hyper literally a good number of signatures would be removed, along with multiple members based on bootleg conversations, or making posts in various threads that are just baiting other members for reactions.

Of course, rule 7 also says to leave moderation (aka dealing of the rules) to the staff and that the rules are not meant to be taken literally so before you quote them you might want to give them a quick once over.

Haha, I'm just teasing!

Actually, on the signature thing, when I first joined, my signature had got edited because it was too big; but I see signatures now that are more than the max line count (I think it was 7, I'm too lazy to double check haha)

[Kojiro Sasaki]

Due to the fact that my ideas and methods do not generate much interest here, I didn't want to participate in this kind of discussions, but as an author of those 5.1 samples, I'm probably considered to be a high representative of the delusional group, therefore I feel like I just got a personal invitation.

Let's start from the beginning:

1. I never claimed 5.1 mix to be practically possible. I said that it's theoretically possible.
2. I never said that my mixes are “quality samples”. They are 5-minute cuts made with basic software. I didn't even use my center/rear amplifiers, so I have no idea how they sound (to this day). If somebody knows something about surround mixing, they understand that stereo or mono source material is not something you would like to use for a “quality” 5.1 mix and that placing mono mix on the center channel does not represent the idea of surround sound.
3. If somebody shares his dreams about something, clearly states that they are kind of wishful and does not press his opinions on others - I don't see any reason to make snarky or sarcastic comments.
4. If something does not interest me, I'm not involved and I do not support it - I do not participate in the discussion nor make any comments, because not being involved makes me uninformed and when I don't know what's actually going on, I cannot make any sensible commentary.
5. I do not consider people uneducated, ignorant or delusional after reading a couple of their posts, only because they didn't write everything they know there.
6. I do not consider my interpretation of other people's words to be better than what the actual person wanted to say, which makes me avoid calling people with names or judge their motives.
7. I do not treat my disputant as a potential idiot. I always try to figure out what they meant with “them having a point” in mind.

As I said million times before: Convincing Toei is not my purpose. My purpose is to do the best job a fan can do. I decided to do it because it's challenging and entertaining.
If you want me to be honest: I'm more skeptical than the most skeptical people on this forum.

How many years into people bringing up the same points that aren't really realistic should politeness be considered?

They should be ignored in the name of your health and our pleasure. Also, it's good to fully understand what those people actually want to say before bashing them.

I guess that this topic is dedicated to the fans who are interested in the “audio campaign”. Fans who believe that it can happen (while being crazy or not) and want to make their own contribution. I don't think that opinions of people who aren't interested or are extremely pessimistic* are needed here. If I wouldn't be interested, I would just ignore it.

* - judging by this campaign: realism = pessimism.

[MarcFBR]

Lots of stuff

Theoretically possible, but you don't even have a mockup to prove that. By your own claim, you don't have the setup to actually properly test that the audio is even coming out correctly with what you are doing. Nor do you actually claim you have the audio background or technical skills to do it.

I do enjoy the large post without much in the way of solid information though.

Maybe you can start an email campaign to get them to do it as you've suggested in the past. I'm sure you could get tens of letters written and sent.

The rest of the post I'm not responding to because much of it is passive aggressive nonsense that either misses the point or just isn't worth responding to.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

Theoretically possible, but you don't even have a mockup to prove that. By your own claim, you don't have the setup to actually properly test that the audio is even coming out correctly with what you are doing. Nor do you actually claim you have the audio background or technical skills to do it.

Despite what I would do or write, you can always say: “you cannot prove that”. You just proved that you don't know how to properly describe what I already did. Get some basic knowledge about audio and formulate some meritorical accusations. Then we can talk about it.

Note that you always want people to prove everything with a ton of arguments, while not presenting any single evidence that would back up your accusations. The only thing you do is calling people delusional and saying that they write nonsense. Make some real contribution to the discussion yourself and then complain about others. Make your own 5.1 mix and destroy us with its quality!

Maybe you can start an email campaign to get them to do it as you've suggested in the past. I'm sure you could get tens of letters written and sent.

That's exactly the point! I'm sure that they will do exactly as I say and spend billions of yens to satisfy me.

Do you think that your intentions are invisible?

The rest of the post I'm not responding to because much of it is passive aggressive nonsense that either misses the point or just isn't worth responding to.

I do enjoy the large post without much in the way of solid information though.

I'm trying to communicate, so I need to use similar language. I still think that I'm more diplomatic and polite. I fully understand that accusing me of being aggressive is the easiest way of defense.
Don't forget who started it. This is actually the first time when I encounter this level of hypocrisy on this forum.
If you don't like dealing with passive or active aggression - stop looking down on people and stop making snarky and rude comments and I guarantee you that you will not need to deal with it.

Again: It's not about the content of your post. It's about the way you express it. Get off your high horse and I'm sure that we can carry on an awesome conversation.

[MarcFBR]

Despite what I would do or write, you can always say: “you cannot prove that”. You just proved that you don't know how to properly describe what I already did. Get some basic knowledge about audio and formulate some meritorical accusations. Then we can talk about it.

This whole statement sort of just feels like you are making yourself feel self important. Alright then. I have plenty of knowledge of audio so let's start there. You claim to have made a 5.1 audio test of DBZ.

Putting lots of work into it it is possible to make mono into 5.1. But the various methods described in the thread are relatively worthless. One of the primary methods mentioned is (roughly, a few versions of this have been described) to put the mono audio in the center channel and to use CD releases to get BGM and insert songs and put them in the surround channels. This is rather silly and in fact stupid. DBZ is an action series, if the action elements aren't going to be in the surround channels, the entire job is a waste of time. It also elevates the music to a level of importance in the show that seems a bit off. Everything is shoved into the center channel and then the other 4 channels have synced music playing clean and loud? Utter waste of time.

I'll skip describing other 5.1 methods as this strange weird mock 5.1 seems to be what people are discussing.

But by your own admission, haven't listened to what you've mocked up in 5.1 (it's possible that's changed since your initial posts on the matter, but I don't recall.)

For people who do technical work, especially with video, images, audio, that makes your work utterly worthless. If you can't review what you've done, the work itself is worthless, because you don't even know if you've done it correctly or not.

I don't care to properly describe your work on what you've done because I literally dismiss it's very existence as anything relevant. And it's kind of hard for you to argue with me about it when you haven't heard it yourself.

If it makes you feel better, why not post some Dolby Digital audio and talk about how it's DTS HD Master Audio. You've done it before. It certainly shows off your audio skills.

Note that you always want people to prove everything with a ton of arguments, while not presenting any single evidence that would back up your accusations. The only thing you do is calling people delusional and saying that they write nonsense. Make some real contribution to the discussion yourself and then complain about others. Make your own 5.1 mix and destroy us with its quality!

I like people to make their arguments with evidence and fact. I've called people delusional and say they write nonsense when the same argument has been brought up many times and it's clear they either aren't listening or just refuse to pay attention.

Although I appreciate you calling yourself delusional a few posts above. I was tired while posting last night and missed that. It saves me the trouble and time of doing it.

Maybe you can start an email campaign to get them to do it as you've suggested in the past. I'm sure you could get tens of letters written and sent.

That's exactly the point! I'm sure that they will do exactly as I say and spend billions of yens to satisfy me.

Considering the very first thing I remember you doing at this forum was trying to convince people to email Funimation fraudulently it appears having companies spend money to satisfy what you personally want when their business decisions are working well is actually a goal of yours. (I don't recall if you were on the forum prior to this, it's just the first thing I recall seeing.)

Do you think that your intentions are invisible?

No, I think my intentions are quite obvious. I don't suffer fools gladly.

I still think that I'm more diplomatic and polite.

Like the post you made earlier dismissing the question of what you were actually posting because your description was wrong? That was less diplomatic and polite and more "I'm a pompous ass." That was an issue created purely because instead of making a proper post, you posted something in a strange weird way, and then acted like a jerk when I was trying to ask what you actually were posting, because it didn't seem to make sense. Not really diplomatic or polite (not to mention your reaction to someone else asking you to explain yourself, which as I recall was to be a smart ass and claim you had a DeLorean and went to the future.)

I fully understand that accusing me of being aggressive is the easiest way of defense.

Aggressive isn't quite the word I'd use.

Don't forget who started it.

You seem less upset that there's an actual argument, and more upset that it involves the quality of your work (which is odd because as mentioned above... you haven't listened to your own work.)

This is actually the first time when I encounter this level of hypocrisy on this forum.
If you don't like dealing with passive or active aggression - stop looking down on people and stop making snarky and rude comments and I guarantee you that you will not need to deal with it.

I'm not sure it's hypocrisy... as I'm certainly not being passive aggressive. I don't look down on anyone who wants to actually learn and improve what they are doing. Multiple people PM me for video or audio help, here and elsewhere. They get treated with the respect they deserve for asking a question. People just popping in with THIS WILL WORK, IT'S AWESOME RAHRAHHHHHHH when they don't know what they are talking about, and moreso, when they ignore information that's been given them have shown a specific level of respect to me and others on the forum who have tried to help by ignoring information available to them, so they receive they same amount of respect in return. And your post appears to end with a vague threat (or it's just a poor translation... I'm honestly not sure.)

Again: It's not about the content of your post. It's about the way you express it. Get off your high horse and I'm sure that we can handle an awesome conversation.

I express myself just fine. I do enjoy how you just did an entire post talking about how I don't know anything, bla bla bla and so forth (while also extolling your level of diplomacy and politeness) but are telling me to get off my high horse.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

This whole statement sort of just feels like you are making yourself feel self important.

Provocation? I chose this way to make you write something. It seems that it finally worked.

Putting lots of work into it it is possible to make mono into 5.1.

You can argue here. Everything depends on the source material, but in most cases it's impossible to make a true surround representation of what's going on the screen with just mono source. Of course you can make some enhancements that will make the sound seem three-dimensional (?)(lack of a proper English word for the Polish “przestrzenność”) but it will never work as it should.

I learned from Polish books therefore I have serious problems with a lack of proper English words for many things I would like to describe there. I really feel like a blind guy in a labyrinth sometimes...

But the various methods described in the thread are relatively worthless. One of the primary methods mentioned is (roughly, a few versions of this have been described) to put the mono audio in the center channel and to use CD releases to get BGM and insert songs and put them in the surround channels. This is rather silly and in fact stupid. DBZ is an action series, if the action elements aren't going to be in the surround channels, the entire job is a waste of time. It also elevates the music to a level of importance in the show that seems a bit off.

Somebody mentioned about mono track on center channel + BGM on front channels (not only surround ones). While being inspired by this, I just took my crappy software and did a quick 5.1 mix with the use of BGM and mono track. Do you really think that I wouldn't mention about placing the sound effects on other channels if I would only have a sound effects-only masters? (It still would be far from perfect without character's voices coming from the proper direction) That's exactly what I'm talking about: You sound like you are the only one here who have knowledge and everybody else are just idiots who cannot think. Maybe I read your intentions wrong, but I feel like you're trying to prove that you know what I think better than I do.

Everything is shoved into the center channel and then the other 4 channels have synced music playing clean and loud? Utter waste of time.

Clean and properly balanced, not loud. Despite full understanding of how unprofessional this would be, I would still like it, especially after listening to FUNI's 5.1 mixes. But when we speak about official release, not my own samples with limited resources, I would of course want the sound effects to be properly placed.

I'll skip describing other 5.1 methods as this strange weird mock 5.1 seems to be what people are discussing.

Give us better sample, or give me the voice-only and sfx-only masters. I promise that I can make better sample with this kind of resources.

But by your own admission, haven't listened to what you've mocked up in 5.1 (it's possible that's changed since your initial posts on the matter, but I don't recall.)

With your knowledge, you should know how to make a basic check with two speakers. I was too lazy to go to basement for my rear amplifier and speakers and I just didn't do a final check.
(Actually, I borrowed one of the amplifiers to my friend)

For people who do technical work, especially with video, images, audio, that makes your work utterly worthless. If you can't review what you've done, the work itself is worthless, because you don't even know if you've done it correctly or not.

Of course that it's worthless for people who do technical work! It's just a basic example edited in 5 minutes to show people that it can work. I wanted to show how mono track on center channel and music on fronts and rears sounds and I did it.

I don't care to properly describe your work on what you've done because I literally dismiss it's very existence as anything relevant. And it's kind of hard for you to argue with me about it when you haven't heard it yourself.

It's hard to discuss about it then.

If it makes you feel better, why not post some Dolby Digital audio and talk about how it's DTS HD Master Audio. You've done it before. It certainly shows off your audio skills.

Thanks for another argument that proves one of my points described in the previous post: A mean and disrespectful manipulation. Do not expect polite response if you do things like this. I just didn't want to get into trouble of going to the studio and using DTS HD Master authoring software. It was obvious that the description was referring to the potential release from the future. Yes - I was rude with my response. I cannot explain this different than that I was mad at the time and I didn't want to get into discussion after my previous experience with you.

I like people to make their arguments with evidence and fact.

I'm glad that you applied this rule to yourself this time.

I've called people delusional and say they write nonsense when the same argument has been brought up many times and it's clear they either aren't listening or just refuse to pay attention.

People do not read entire forum. I do not have any problems with people who aren't listening. That's their business. I just ignore them after I tell everything I have to say. Also, some people are new.

Although I appreciate you calling yourself delusional a few posts above.

Irony? It's strange that a master of sarcasm like you didn't get it.

Considering the very first thing I remember you doing at this forum was trying to convince people to email Funimation fraudulently it appears having companies spend money to satisfy what you personally want when their business decisions are working well is actually a goal of yours. (I don't recall if you were on the forum prior to this, it's just the first thing I recall seeing.)

Your memory doesn't serve you well. First thing I did here was trying to gather up an army of people who would help me doing anything that's possible to get a complete BGM release. I was new, I had no idea about the fanbase at the time. I got my experience.

No, I think my intentions are quite obvious. I don't suffer fools gladly.

That's good to know.

Like the post you made earlier dismissing the question of what you were actually posting because your description was wrong? That was less diplomatic and polite and more "I'm a pompous ass." That was an issue created purely because instead of making a proper post, you posted something in a strange weird way, and then acted like a jerk when I was trying to ask what you actually were posting, because it didn't seem to make sense. Not really diplomatic or polite (not to mention your reaction to someone else asking you to explain yourself, which as I recall was to be a smart ass and claim you had a DeLorean and went to the future.)

(I'm not sure if I understand the first sentence properly) If you're describing my quick response about the 5.1 mix sample - you're actually right. That wasn't polite at all. I was referring more to my last post.
I still think that this post was possible to understand - it just needed a little bit of good will. Don't tell me that you asked your question in a polite way just because you were confused. It's easy to deduce that you just thought that you found a nice reason to jump into the discussion to bash me using your well-known style.

If you don't get the DeLorean post - I get it as intentional misinterpretation to generate a reason to bash me. I don't se any other reason behind not understanding something of that simplicity.
The DeLorean post explains everything exactly as I thought back when I did those samples. I didn't have 4:3 1080p source and DTS HD Master authoring software at hand, so I used random materials and codecs. That's the truth. The rest is just your imagination which is responsible for some part of this entire conflict.

You seem less upset that there's an actual argument, and more upset that it involves the quality of your work (which is odd because as mentioned above... you haven't listened to your own work.)

If you aren't intentionally manipulating, I will respond seriously: No. You misinterpreted what I said. I actually admitted a couple of times that it's a five-minutes work, not a quality sample.

I'm not sure it's hypocrisy... as I'm certainly not being passive aggressive. I don't look down on anyone who wants to actually learn and improve what they are doing. Multiple people PM me for video or audio help, here and elsewhere. They get treated with the respect they deserve for asking a question. People just popping in with THIS WILL WORK, IT'S AWESOME RAHRAHHHHHHH when they don't know what they are talking about, and moreso, when they ignore information that's been given them have shown a specific level of respect to me and others on the forum who have tried to help by ignoring information available to them, so they receive they same amount of respect in return. And your post appears to end with a vague threat (or it's just a poor translation... I'm honestly not sure.)

When did I say that my sample is AWESOMEEEEE? When did I say that what I did is PERFECT and that I don't want to improve it? Do not determine that people do not know what they are talking about so easily. That's what makes me think that you look down on people. It looks like intentional interpretation to generate a reason to bash your disputant.

I am still happy that I can communicate (maybe not as I would like to...) using the language I never studied. You don't even imagine how stupid you feel when you have no idea how you sound when you say something in another language. I hope that you read my posts while keeping this in mind. If I really sound like an arrogant asshole (excluding the intentional irony, sarcasm, provocations and stuff like this written for the sake of discussion) I cannot do more than just apologize for this.

I express myself just fine. I do enjoy how you just did an entire post talking about how I don't know anything, bla bla bla and so forth (while also extolling your level of diplomacy and politeness) but are telling me to get off my high horse.

I guess that this provocation was already explained. As you see - it worked fine. If you would start the discussion with what you wrote about the 5.1 mix here, my response would look completely different. Do not start the conversation with snarky comments, telling people than they know shit and looking down on them and I can assure you that it will look completely different. And really - have more faith in people. They aren't as dumb as you try to make them.

Still - I do not look down on you nor consider you uneducated while feeling that you treat me opposite. When I wrote “Get some basic knowledge”, I was sure that you will get what I mean and it seems that it worked as I wanted it to work. I would never allow myself to use a cheap manipulation like the one with DTS HD Master against you in a serious sentence. From my part, the entire problem comes out of the feeling of being treated like an idiot. I also feel extremely big amount of hostility targeted at me from the very beginning. Maybe defending myself with the use of the same hostility is not a good way of defense... Maybe I just read the tone incorrectly? Seriously... hell knows.

[MarcFBR]

This whole statement sort of just feels like you are making yourself feel self important.

Provocation? I chose this way to make you write something. It seems that it finally worked.

This is one of the stupidest things I've read in a long time. Anyone who talks to me knows that trying to bait me to talk is unnecessary. I reply whenever necessary based on what was said. Most of the time you just say nonsense, so it doesn't need much in the way of response. The fact your idea of baiting someone is to actually EXPLAIN things shows just how poor you are at conversation.

With your knowledge, you should know how to make a basic check with two speakers. I was too lazy to go to basement for my rear amplifier and speakers and I just didn't do a final check.

Which still makes any mockup utterly worthless. If you've done a mockup or test and can't be damned to test it properly yourself, why should anyone take it seriously? You've made 5.1 audio and only tested it on 2.0. You've wasted your own time making it without testing it and everyone else's time in having to read about it. It's like cooking, you have to TASTE the food.

Of course that it's worthless for people who do technical work! It's just a basic example edited in 5 minutes to show people that it can work. I wanted to show how mono track on center channel and music on fronts and rears sounds and I did it.

Same as above

Thanks for another argument that proves one of my points described in the previous post: A mean and disrespectful manipulation. Do not expect polite response if you do things like this. I just didn't want to get into trouble of going to the studio and using DTS HD Master authoring software. It was obvious that the description was referring to the potential release from the future. Yes - I was rude with my response. I cannot explain this different than that I was mad at the time and I didn't want to get into discussion after my previous experience with you.

This was your ENTIRE post about that

Yeah, it's hard to mix/master 5.1 audio without 5.1 speakers

An audio sample taken from the Dragon Box: The Movies Blu-ray Box Set (4:3, 1080p, ~28Mbps AVC, 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio)

激突!!100億パワーの戦士たち (Japanese, 5.1 Dolby Digital)
(do not downmix to stereo!)

That's complete nonsense as far as a discussion goes, and the fact that someone else told you to explain it effectively proves the point that it was poorly written and badly explained. If you want to have a discussion you have to DISCUSS. You didn't explain 'this is the type of release I would like to have, and here is a mockup of the audio', you just posted a bunch of nonsense and then linked to a file.

People do not read entire forum. I do not have any problems with people who aren't listening. That's their business. I just ignore them after I tell everything I have to say. Also, some people are new.

Except we aren't talking about new people. We are talking about people being stubborn and/or stupid and just reiterating things 100 times after being informed.

Considering the very first thing I remember you doing at this forum was trying to convince people to email Funimation fraudulently it appears having companies spend money to satisfy what you personally want when their business decisions are working well is actually a goal of yours. (I don't recall if you were on the forum prior to this, it's just the first thing I recall seeing.)

Your memory doesn't serve you well. First thing I did here was trying to gather up an army of people who would help me doing anything that's possible to get a complete BGM release. I was new, I had no idea about the fanbase at the time. I got my experience.

Your ability to read doesn't serve you well, which is part of the issue. I didn't say it was the first thing you did on the forum (and in fact my statement makes it pretty clear I don't know if you were around before then or not, I was simply stating the first thing I remember you doing.)

If you don't get the DeLorean post - I get it as intentional misinterpretation to generate a reason to bash me. I don't se any other reason behind not understanding something of that simplicity.
The DeLorean post explains everything exactly as I thought back when I did those samples. I didn't have 4:3 1080p source and DTS HD Master authoring software at hand, so I used random materials and codecs. That's the truth. The rest is just your imagination which is responsible for some part of this entire conflict.

Again, missing the point and not quite reading everything. You made the snarky DeLorean post to someone ELSE, not to me, when someone else asked for clarification on what the hell you were talking about with your post that didn't explain anything.

If you aren't intentionally manipulating, I will respond seriously: No. You misinterpreted what I said. I actually admitted a couple of times that it's a five-minutes work, not a quality sample.

I never said it was a 'quality' sample. I actually assume it's rather terrible. As I've said, if you can't be damned to listen to your own work 'properly' why should anyone else?

When did I say that my sample is AWESOMEEEEE? When did I say that what I did is PERFECT and that I don't want to improve it? Do not determine that people do not know what they are talking about so easily. That's what makes me think that you look down on people. It looks like intentional interpretation to generate a reason to bash your disputant.

You imagine comments are talking about you when they were clearly meant to be generic.

If I really sound like an arrogant asshole (excluding the intentional irony, sarcasm, provocations and stuff like this written for the sake of discussion) I cannot do more than just apologize for this.

Your posts and how you act in them suggest it isn't accidental but on purpose and that you fall back on language issues when you go to far. (Like being a smart ass with the DeLorean when someone else asked you about the post. That was clearly uncalled for when someone else pointed out they weren't sure if it was a language issue or you being a jerk, and you retorted that way.)

And really - have more faith in people. They aren't as dumb as you try to make them.

I have plenty of faith in people, they tend to prove me wrong though.

Still - I do not look down on you nor consider you uneducated while feeling that you treat me opposite.

I treat anyone I don't really know on a post by post basis. As for what you think of me... that's good I guess? I have a range of friends and family whose opinion I value. Anyone else is welcome to whatever they want to think, it doesn't really affect me. Most of the people at Kanzenshuu, friend or not, knows I'm direct and that's how I speak and knows they are welcome to ask me whatever they want for help, public or private. Anyone who doesn't and takes it as rudeness... good for them, means it's likely a stubborn and wrong person I don't have to deal with.

[Bardo117]

Yall sound like females

[Kojiro Sasaki]

This is one of the stupidest things I've read in a long time. Anyone who talks to me knows that trying to bait me to talk is unnecessary. I reply whenever necessary based on what was said. Most of the time you just say nonsense, so it doesn't need much in the way of response. The fact your idea of baiting someone is to actually EXPLAIN things shows just how poor you are at conversation.

And yet, you only arrogantly whined instead of making a meritorical commentary like you did in your latest post. I have completely different experience with you and my way of handling this conversation is designed especially for you. I never talk like this with anyone else. Due to this fact, you're right: I'm poor at mean conversations.

That's what I'm talking about from the very beginning. You just cannot carry on a discussion without the use of words like: nonsense, stupid, worthless, etc. Do not expect a nice conversation when you make comments like this. Maybe I was wrong when I presumed your intentions when I wrote my rude “problem” response, but I surely had reasons to believe that they weren't clean.

Which still makes any mockup utterly worthless. If you've done a mockup or test and can't be damned to test it properly yourself, why should anyone take it seriously? You've made 5.1 audio and only tested it on 2.0. You've wasted your own time making it without testing it and everyone else's time in having to read about it. It's like cooking, you have to TASTE the food.

5.1 audio can be tested on 2.0 to some extent. Depends on your creativity. It is a crappy example, but it shows a bit of what I wanted to show.

That's complete nonsense as far as a discussion goes, and the fact that someone else told you to explain it effectively proves the point that it was poorly written and badly explained. If you want to have a discussion you have to DISCUSS. You didn't explain 'this is the type of release I would like to have, and here is a mockup of the audio', you just posted a bunch of nonsense and then linked to a file.

Maybe it was poorly written, but a little bit of good will would allow you to understand what it was about. Don't tell me that your intentions were good when you posted your comment. You could write: “The description does not meet the sample you posted. What do you mean?”. But no, you needed to use your arrogant style of commenting, because how would MarcFBR feel if he wouldn't use a couple of nonsense, stupid, worthless words per sentence?

Learn how to make polite comments and you will not need to deal with rudeness of any kind. Definitely not from my part.

Your ability to read doesn't serve you well, which is part of the issue. I didn't say it was the first thing you did on the forum (and in fact my statement makes it pretty clear I don't know if you were around before then or not, I was simply stating the first thing I remember you doing.)

Maybe it does not serve me well. Still - I didn't do what you said back then.

You made the snarky DeLorean post to someone ELSE, not to me, when someone else asked for clarification on what the hell you were talking about with your post that didn't explain anything.

I don't see anything snarky about it. I just explained myself and said what I thought was obvious.

I never said it was a 'quality' sample. I actually assume it's rather terrible. As I've said, if you can't be damned to listen to your own work 'properly' why should anyone else?

That's very good. You could have expressed it without using disrespectful language and it would be 100% fine. I explained why I had no possibility to listen to it.

You imagine comments are talking about you when they were clearly meant to be generic.

Why do you comment what I say with comments not targeted at me?

Your posts and how you act in them suggest it isn't accidental but on purpose and that you fall back on language issues when you go to far. (Like being a smart ass with the DeLorean when someone else asked you about the post. That was clearly uncalled for when someone else pointed out they weren't sure if it was a language issue or you being a jerk, and you retorted that way.)

Some of what I write is on purpose, some is not. You cannot imagine how does it look when you use a different language you learned on your own. You need to notice that when I sound sharp, it's always a reaction to something I consider to be a hostile aggression. I really have a serious problem with determining if some of your comments are constructive criticism or just plain hate.

I treat anyone I don't really know on a post by post basis. As for what you think of me... that's good I guess? I have a range of friends and family whose opinion I value. Anyone else is welcome to whatever they want to think, it doesn't really affect me. Most of the people at Kanzenshuu, friend or not, knows I'm direct and that's how I speak and knows they are welcome to ask me whatever they want for help, public or private. Anyone who doesn't and takes it as rudeness... good for them, means it's likely a stubborn and wrong person I don't have to deal with.

Does it mean that you consider your way of commenting to be PERFECT and you don't accept any criticism? Do you consider misunderstanding to be possible?

My previous experience with you and a little research I did about you gave me an image of an arrogant and disrespectful person. Maybe I was wrong to follow this stereotype of you.