Did FUNimation overstep their bounds?

[Thanos]

Why should Nozawa being handpicked by Toriyama have anything to do with it? If Toriyama said in an interview with Weekly Jump or in a video interview that he enjoyed how FUNimation handled the Dragon Ball series, would that change the opinion of fans who absolutely hate the English dub? Of course, not. So why should it have any bearing on whether Nozawa's portrayal should be universally revered?

That's... not really the point.

Nozawa, having been picked by Toriyama, shows that the voice is true to his original vision of the series. I don't see how whether he enjoys the FUNimation dub (a silly premise to start with, considering FUNimation is a drop in the bucket of the many worldwide dubs) has anything to do with it.

I happen to disagree with the implication that the changes made by FUNimation improved its success. Honestly, do any of you really think that something as trivial as changing the music or altering a few of the lines would have any significance whatsoever on its success? As others have mentioned, it has received popularity worldwide to such a degree without these major changes, so it this is a fallacy. The world does not revolve around the United States.

The fact of the matter is, FUNimation's job was to dub a Japanese cartoon into English. They had absolutely no business skipping a huge chunk and splicing episodes of Dragon Ball GT. It was also irresponsible of them to spend the first wave of TV releases of DBZ on edited VHS tapes.

[Innagadadavida]

The fact of the matter is, FUNimation's job was to dub a Japanese cartoon into English. They had absolutely no business skipping a huge chunk and splicing episodes of Dragon Ball GT. It was also irresponsible of them to spend the first wave of TV releases of DBZ on edited VHS tapes.

They had quite a bit of business doing that. They payed for the license, and as such, they were then given the discretion to market it however they wanted to. We don't have to like it, but they were perfectly within their rights to do what they did. Their intention was to guarantee the success of the show, which is a very good thing. And where we are now with FUNimation is a fantastic place that many fandoms don't get to enjoy. I think it's important to remember this.

[jjgp1112]

How was it irresponsible of them? It's not like there was any other version of English Dragon Ball Z lying around when they released the VHS Tapes, and the Japanese version...really didn't matter to Funimation at that point. They weren't going to create confusion by making a completely separate version of Z on VHS, not to mention the fact that they were dirt poor at this point and probably didn't want to spend the money to produce a separate uncut version.

And as Inna said, they can do whatever they want, really, as long as Toei doesn't object to it.

[kemuri07]

So you prefer an inaccurate English dub simply because it's in English?

Well, yeah. Granted there's more specific reasons, but I generally prefer anime to be spoken in my language.

"Accuracy" has nothing to do with it. It's all about what entertains me more, and it's the English dub--especially in regards to Kai.

[OutlawTorn]

Why should Nozawa being handpicked by Toriyama have anything to do with it? If Toriyama said in an interview with Weekly Jump or in a video interview that he enjoyed how FUNimation handled the Dragon Ball series, would that change the opinion of fans who absolutely hate the English dub? Of course, not. So why should it have any bearing on whether Nozawa's portrayal should be universally revered?

That's... not really the point.

Then why even mention it.

Nozawa, having been picked by Toriyama, shows that the voice is true to his original vision of the series. I don't see how whether he enjoys the FUNimation dub (a silly premise to start with, considering FUNimation is a drop in the bucket of the many worldwide dubs) has anything to do with it.

Well, you obviously put a lot of stock in Toriyama's opinions, otherwise you wouldn't have gone out of your way to mention he handpicked Nozawa to voice Goku. I was pointing out how silly it is to think that would make any difference to people who aren't fond of Nozawa any more than it would make for people who hate the FUNimation dub change their opinion if Toriyama (hypothetically) stated he enjoyed it.

I happen to disagree with the implication that the changes made by FUNimation improved its success. Honestly, do any of you really think that something as trivial as changing the music or altering a few of the lines would have any significance whatsoever on its success? As others have mentioned, it has received popularity worldwide to such a degree without these major changes, so it this is a fallacy. The world does not revolve around the United States.

I never implied any of this, but I happen to agree. The only market which would have been influenced would be the English-speaking market FUNimation has rights to distribute within.

The fact of the matter is, FUNimation's job was to dub a Japanese cartoon into English. They had absolutely no business skipping a huge chunk and splicing episodes of Dragon Ball GT. It was also irresponsible of them to spend the first wave of TV releases of DBZ on edited VHS tapes.

You mean, like how a Japanese dubbing company took Beast Wars and dumbed it down, changed a female heroic character into a male, thus creating a homosexual relationship where none originally existed? Yeah, FUNimation really screwed over the Dragon Ball franchise.

[VegettoEX]

Can you folks turn down the snark? If you're unable to have a polite conversation -- while still bringing in great examples and personal justifications -- this ain't the place for you.

[TripleRach]

You mean, like how a Japanese dubbing company took Beast Wars and dumbed it down, changed a female heroic character into a male, thus creating a homosexual relationship where none originally existed? Yeah, FUNimation really screwed over the Dragon Ball franchise.

That's like saying, "It's okay for me to kick you because another guy stabbed someone." Sure, it could be considered a worse crime, but it's nothing but a distraction from the original issue.

[Super Sonic]

The fact of the matter is, FUNimation's job was to dub a Japanese cartoon into English. They had absolutely no business skipping a huge chunk and splicing episodes of Dragon Ball GT. It was also irresponsible of them to spend the first wave of TV releases of DBZ on edited VHS tapes.

You have to remember, before GT premiered here, there was a big "GT sucks!" mindset. So Funimation tried to change that opinion, as well as be able to make money by ensuring guys would want to buy the missing episodes.

On another note, I have to ask, in theory, if DBZ had become more popular here than it was in Japan, similar to how Voltron and Saber Rider were, would we be wondering about overstepping boundaries? Or would it be a different matter due to anime series from the 80s being looked at differently?

[Saiga]

The fact of the matter is, FUNimation's job was to dub a Japanese cartoon into English. They had absolutely no business skipping a huge chunk and splicing episodes of Dragon Ball GT. It was also irresponsible of them to spend the first wave of TV releases of DBZ on edited VHS tapes.

You have to remember, before GT premiered here, there was a big "GT sucks!" mindset. So Funimation tried to change that opinion, as well as be able to make money by ensuring guys would want to buy the missing episodes.

On another note, I have to ask, in theory, if DBZ had become more popular here than it was in Japan, similar to how Voltron and Saber Rider were, would we be wondering about overstepping boundaries? Or would it be a different matter due to anime series from the 80s being looked at differently?

If DBZ became more popular in the US than Japan, that would just give the fans of the Japanese Audio even more reason to complain.

[TripleRach]

On another note, I have to ask, in theory, if DBZ had become more popular here than it was in Japan, similar to how Voltron and Saber Rider were, would we be wondering about overstepping boundaries? Or would it be a different matter due to anime series from the 80s being looked at differently?

If FUNimation still made a lot of changes, and sites like DBZ Uncensored still documented those changes, then I still would have been very interested in seeing an unedited and unaltered version of the show. It just might have been harder to track down.

If DBZ became more popular in the US than Japan, that would just give the fans of the Japanese Audio even more reason to complain.

Why, exactly? Because the English version would be more prominent than the Japanese version? That's already the case anyway, at least in the English fandom.

[Saiga]

If DBZ became more popular in the US than Japan, that would just give the fans of the Japanese Audio even more reason to complain.

Why, exactly? Because the English version would be more prominent than the Japanese version? That's already the case anyway, at least in the English fandom.

Yeah, but it would be an even worse case of it being more prominent.

[Kendamu]

It can't really get much more prominent. Have you seen the trailers for DBZ in the US? Even the products aimed at Japanese language fans are narrated by the dub actors in character.

[dprez]

It actually is a good argument to make for the Japanese version being superior, whether you prefer it or not, IT IS MUCH MUCH BETTER.

But that's not a good argument to make because you're basing it under the assumption that Akira Toriyama is perfect and any choice he makes is a reflection of that. Besides, just because the creator (and that goes for any show) makes a certain choice about the direction he/she wants for a show doesn't automatically make it the right one.

On Nozawa and the original voice work: I tolerate it. I have no objections to watching my anime in Japanese if I have no other choice, and I've watch plenty of episodes in Japanese. The problem is I just cannot connect to Nozawa's performance as Goku. I'll admit that a lot of it has to do with the fact that I'm an American, and I generally prefer hearing a animated show in English. But it's also that I personally find that there's something specifically "alien" about her performance that turns me off from the character.

It's better than the english dub. Most people would agree with this, and even if you prefer the english dub, you must still understand that the original is superior in just about every way.

And as far as I'm concerned, I'd take the authors intent over some amateur english speaking americans trying to dub the show for 9 year old's, while completely ignoring the original dialogue.

This comes down to you simply preferring to hear a show in your own language. Nothing wrong with that, but I feel like people like you are missing out on the "true" DBZ. Although since you seam to truly prefer the dub over the original, in you're mind you're really not missing out.

Alien. Yes. This is why I love her performance. The entire series is alien, and so is Goku Seriously though, this is the exact reason I prefer the original. These characters, the world they live in, the alien warriors they meet and fight, hearing it all in a language I do not understand does it for me. It gives it a realistic feel. Hearing it spoken by derp de derp white people, talking like I do, just feels...awkward.

[thedarkuniter]

It's better than the english dub. Most people would agree with this, and even if you prefer the english dub, you must still understand that the original is superior in just about every way

I have to disagree with that logic. Sure, the original is what originally aired in Japan during the late '80's through the mid '90's but if a person still prefer the English version over the original, I don't see why he or she really have to acknowledge that the Japanese version is superior. However, I do think they have to acknowledge that Dragon Ball the franchise was originally created by Akira Toriyama.

[dprez]

It's better than the english dub. Most people would agree with this, and even if you prefer the english dub, you must still understand that the original is superior in just about every way

I have to disagree with that logic. Sure, the original is what originally aired in Japan during the late '80's through the mid '90's but if a person still prefer the English version over the original, I don't see why he or she really have to acknowledge that the Japanese version is superior. However, I do think they have to acknowledge that Dragon Ball the franchise was originally created by Akira Toriyama.

Look at the original manga, look at the original anime. Now look at the FUNi Dub. Voices aside, the dialogue is butchered. (Personally, I hate most of the english voices, especially Goku and Freeza. Kills that entire arc for me.)

Maybe superior isn't the right word, as in my mind the Japanese version is superior, but more like "being honest to the original work".

The Japanese dub is on an entire different level when it comes to following the authors intent. More than just his intent, but how he wrote the manga, and how the original dub captures the feel of it all. I mean, when reading the Freeza arc, do you really her that female voice when the tyrant of the universe speaks. And yes, Gokus voice may sound female to some (Not to me, it just sounds like Goku ), but it captures that characters personality.

Saying it's superior may not be fair for those who love the english version over the japanese, but the original dub is much closer to how I feel the author portrays these characters and their personalities.

[VegettoEX]

Yeah, perhaps "superior" isn't the right word to use (well, maybe it is to some folks, and I'd even agree with that, but it's not really the point). "Honest" is perhaps a better word to toss into the mix?

[dprez]

Yeah, perhaps "superior" isn't the right word to use (well, maybe it is to some folks, and I'd even agree with that, but it's not really the point). "Honest" is perhaps a better word to toss into the mix?

Yea, as I thought about it while typing, superior isn't really fair for everyone. Maybe for folks like us who "know" it really is superior, It's still not fair to state it like a fact.

Honest is better, and no one can argue that the original dub isn't more honest to the original story than the english dub.


EDIT: I don't want it to sound like people who prefer the english version are ignorant or w/e because they prefer a version that may not be so honest to the original story. To each his own. I respect that.

[VegettoEX]

Well, you could certainly argue that things like extraneous filler and some contradictory moments / plot-points that Toei introduces aren't really "honest" to the original story, but that's just the name of the game with shonen anime adaptations. The characters themselves are, overall, completely honest and true to what Toriyama wrote on paper, and sometimes even more so when you pull his casting choices and opinions about the rest of the production (such as the music) into the mix.

If that's what he hears in his head and enjoys for his own work, I don't know how many of us can really argue with him about that.

And that's not to say that Toriyama's word is gospel, because I think there are story elements and such that EVERY fan could take issue with...

But yeah?

[thedarkuniter]

It's better than the english dub. Most people would agree with this, and even if you prefer the english dub, you must still understand that the original is superior in just about every way

I have to disagree with that logic. Sure, the original is what originally aired in Japan during the late '80's through the mid '90's but if a person still prefer the English version over the original, I don't see why he or she really have to acknowledge that the Japanese version is superior. However, I do think they have to acknowledge that Dragon Ball the franchise was originally created by Akira Toriyama.

Look at the original manga, look at the original anime. Now look at the FUNi Dub. Voices aside, the dialogue is butchered. (Personally, I hate most of the english voices, especially Goku and Freeza. Kills that entire arc for me.)

Maybe superior isn't the right word, as in my mind the Japanese version is superior, but more like "being honest to the original work".

The Japanese dub is on an entire different level when it comes to following the authors intent. More than just his intent, but how he wrote the manga, and how the original dub captures the feel of it all. I mean, when reading the Freeza arc, do you really her that female voice when the tyrant of the universe speaks. And yes, Gokus voice may sound female to some (Not to me, it just sounds like Goku ), but it captures that characters personality.

Saying it's superior may not be fair for those who love the english version over the japanese, but the original dub is much closer to how I feel the author portrays these characters and their personalities.

I do agree 100 percent about that. I like both versions equally, but again like Mr.EX mentioned, it comes down to how you word stuff, especially since this forum features both dubbies and subbies or hybrids like me. Without appropriate wording, it can lend to misunderstanding. I do though pretend that that the Z dub doesn't exist and watch just watch the Kai dub.

[Fionordequester]

Hmm, thanks for acknowledging that guys. To me, the accuracy of any dub to me isn't anywhere near as big of an issue as it probably is to many. The only thing I really look at when it comes to any change is "is it an improvement, does it make sense, and is it contradicted later"? If those three criteria are met, then I don't mind the change one bit, so I'm probably a lot more lenient about the dub than many.