So who or what is Black?

[HeroR]

Posted this on watchdragonballsuper -

Theory of mine for Goku Black, might be close to the truth, as it’s the only thing I can think of which actually makes “sense” in DB terms that is. Despite Trunks significantly changing history for the current timeline, his world when going back remained the same. (Goku, Gohan etc still Dead). So time travel in DB, simply creates alternative timelines. It’s a paradox I guess. Both events happened one just earlier and the other went into another direction.
In my theory God King Zamasu (likely an evil green supreme kai/Makaiōshin) used the time-ring to kidnap baby Goku at some point pre him falling on his head on earth and becoming “pure” after seeing his insane potential during a later saga. Knowing that there was no way to change his purehearted good character in any other way, he travelled back in time with the time-ring and took him under his wing.

Then he basically trained him in Darkness and unleashed all his dark potential. Making him eventually reach God mode Black (I believe he will have his own SSJG transformation). In contrast to mystic Gohan (good) transformation the elderly supreme Kai did to Gohan during the Buu saga.
I’m sure it’s Goku though, from the same universe 7. Just a different/alternative timeline altogether, training and upbringing. Much like Trunks is future Trunks, just from an alternative timeline, Black Goku thus created by time-travel by this evil green supreme Kai.
Black Goku thus has a totally different character and is basically how Goku would have been and worse (extra unscrupulously evil/black intensified training) and all powerful, had he not landed on earth and hit his head.

He doesn’t feel as a Saiyan as he was raised by a God and simply/practically became one through sheer power eventually as well. His base black form looks a lot like the standard SSJ God mode as well, just without the red hair.

Actually, creating a new timeline when changing the past prevents a paradox not create one since the androids wrecking Trunks' time is what makes him go into the past. If the androids never happened, then Trunks would have never time traveled in the first place.

Goku being raised by an evil Kai is interesting, but it runs into a fatal flaw. Goku wouldn't be called Goku since that is the name Gohan Sr gave him. If he was kidnapped as a toddler he would go by his Saiyan name or Zamasu would give him a new one. According to Trunks, Black calls himself Son Goku.

[KayDash]

Posted this on watchdragonballsuper -
Goku being raised by an evil Kai is interesting, but it runs into a fatal flaw. Goku wouldn't be called Goku since that is the name Gohan Sr gave him. If he was kidnapped as a toddler he would go by his Saiyan name or Zamasu would give him a new one. According to Trunks, Black calls himself Son Goku.

Zamasu can know about his Son Goku name, and can name him like that. But we still don't know why he is hunting Trunks, and destroying his timeline. (evil is not really an explanation, Freeza wanted immortality, Cell wanted to fight stronger enemies, but unlike Goku he was without empathy, Buu wanted to torture people and eat sweets. it was always more then just someone being evil)
From the strong focus on Whis explaining why timetravel is bad in the last EP, it might hint that Goku Black's mission/existence is releated to Trunks' law breaking.

[Lord Beerus]

According to Ajay in the main Super thread, it seems as though the earring that Goku Black wears, is a Potara earring.

So it would seem as though Goku Black is the result of Goku in Future Trunks' timeline fusing with another being. But who could it be?

[ryou766]

I would assume that Black is a fused being hadn't it been for the fact he's only wearing ONE earring.

What happened to the other? Does he have it? Is he planning on combining with someone?

[Chuquita]

I still like the theory that he's been going around fuse-absorbing Gokûs from other timelines.

I also like the theory that he's looking for a Vegeta to force-fuse with to make a Vegetto Black.

[HeroR]

I still like the theory that he's been going around fuse-absorbing Gokûs from other timelines.

I also like the theory that he's looking for a Vegeta to force-fuse with to make a Vegetto Black.

The problem I have with this theory is that fusion with other Gokus, especially good Gokus, should make him less evil and he should give some love or at least pride for his Saiyan heritage. Also, from a pure technical point-of-view, why would you merge with yourself? Wouldn't it be better to merge with someone who can give you new knowledge and a skill set like Buu absorbing Piccolo, Gotenks, and Gohan.

[Hellspawn28]

Going by the new episode, Black knows who Vegeta and Beerus is. Even he mention using a body to fight Goku. Some people are believing the theory that he may use the body of Goku's body from Future Trunks timeline may be true now.

[Grimlock]

Going by the new episode, Black knows who Vegeta and Beerus is. Even he mention using a body to fight Goku. Some people are believing the theory that he may use the body of Goku's body from Future Trunks timeline may be true now.

As I said earlier, Future Goku doesn't know Beerus... It is a plausible theory, but it has this flaw.

[ArchedThunder]

Going by the new episode, Black knows who Vegeta and Beerus is. Even he mention using a body to fight Goku. Some people are believing the theory that he may use the body of Goku's body from Future Trunks timeline may be true now.

As I said earlier, Future Goku doesn't know Beerus... It is a plausible theory, but it has this flaw.

Huh? The theory is that Black isn't Goku, he's just using Goku's body. Who Goku knows is irrelevant when someone else is in control.

[HeroR]

Huh? The theory is that Black isn't Goku, he's just using Goku's body. Who Goku knows is irrelevant when someone else is in control.

The problem with that is that Black clearly knows Goku's move set, or at least some of it. We have seen body swapping before and Ginyu kept none of Goku's memories or knew how to do his techniques.

[Marco Polo]

Huh? The theory is that Black isn't Goku, he's just using Goku's body. Who Goku knows is irrelevant when someone else is in control.

The problem with that is that Black clearly knows Goku's move set, or at least some of it. We have seen body swapping before and Ginyu kept none of Goku's memories or knew how to do his techniques.

Because Ginyu swapped not just bodies but also minds. This Black dude is presumably possessing Future Goku's body, but I'm not sure Future Goku's mind got transferred to Black's original body.

[Chuquita]

I'm now leaning towards the "zombie body" theory. That's a dead Gokû body that someone else is piloting and he only knows stuff that Gokû would know because it's still in the dead body's brain's memories.

[ryou766]

He only knows stuff that Gokû would know because it's still in the dead body's brain's memories.

How would you know of Beerus, though? Mirai Goku died before having had met Beerus and Whis.

[ArchedThunder]

He only knows stuff that Gokû would know because it's still in the dead body's brain's memories.

How would you know of Beerus, though? Mirai Goku died before having had met Beerus and Whis.

Black himself probably knows who Beerus is, not Goku.

[ryou766]

That's possible. It ties into the whole "Black being affiliated with a Supreme Kaioshin" theory. He's either Zamasu, who knows of Beerus, or was told about the existence of Beerus BY Zamasu.

[ArchedThunder]

That's possible. It ties into the whole "Black being affiliated with a Supreme Kaioshin" theory. He's either Zamasu, who knows of Beerus, or was told about the existence of Beerus BY Zamasu.

Or he's a Makaioshin and just knows of all the other gods.

[HeroR]

Because Ginyu swapped not just bodies but also minds. This Black dude is presumably possessing Future Goku's body, but I'm not sure Future Goku's mind got transferred to Black's original body.

If is just a body possessing, he still shouldn't know Goku techniques or have his memories since Future Goku would just be a corpse and his soul is elsewhere.

I'm now leaning towards the "zombie body" theory. That's a dead Gokû body that someone else is piloting and he only knows stuff that Gokû would know because it's still in the dead body's brain's memories.

I doubt it. Given how the body rots, the brain is one of the first to go. Goku's memories would be tied to his soul, not his decayed brain.

[Hellspawn28]

Going by the new episode, Black knows who Vegeta and Beerus is. Even he mention using a body to fight Goku. Some people are believing the theory that he may use the body of Goku's body from Future Trunks timeline may be true now.

As I said earlier, Future Goku doesn't know Beerus... It is a plausible theory, but it has this flaw.

He could have meet him in the After Life in Trunks timeline.

[GodKaio-Ken]

That's possible. It ties into the whole "Black being affiliated with a Supreme Kaioshin" theory. He's either Zamasu, who knows of Beerus, or was told about the existence of Beerus BY Zamasu.

Or he's a Makaioshin and just knows of all the other gods.

So you think Beerus doesn't know what a Makaioshin is? I ask because based on his reaction and Herms translation the Ki of Black felt a little different than Goku but similar. I would imagine a God would know what the Ki of other entities feels like. Especially why coupled with the Kaioshin time ring.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

While I would like the Makaioshin to become a thing in the franchise beyond Toriyama tidbits, I don't have much hope...

Ignoring that for a moment and assuming he is one though, Black's ki not feeling like Goku's could be a result of whatever he is. Like, if Zamasu took over a Goku corpse for example, Black's ki could be a strange mix of the ki Goku' and Zamasu possess, making it unfamiliar.