eledoremassis02 wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:42 pm
I think it's also a good portion of "TOEI Goku" or "filler Goku". That Goku is practically a parody of all, or most of, Goku's faults and has existed before TFS. But TFS made filler Goku the main defining character trait. That's 100% fine but I do think that caused people to think that's who Goku is as a character and it is backed by some of the decisions TOEI has made didn't help either (why they exist pretty much in the first place)
I think my biggest gripe with Toriyama's Goku (outside the ending) was giving Cell the Sensu. But he did pretty much believe in Gohan's power and even sacrificed himself when he got Gohan caught up against the wall (ala Piccolo vs the Nappa) so I think a lot of it has just got blown out of proportion.
It's like how Toriyama's Krillin is a competent fighter but Toei's Krillining is the pwn counter (then to be replaced now by Yamcha).
Well, he's more a parody in that they changed the character in subtle ways between mediums. Discounting the filler & movies, they made minor changes to make Goku more of a hero than in the manga in the adapted scenes. They're subtle & I haven't read the entire manga or read it closely enough to be sure outside of a few examples, but they are there. I'm sure the DB Wiki or other people here have a list of them. Super, however, flanderized him the other way & increased his selfishness as well as his naiveté to hyper levels that they never were originally.
See, that's a moment I don't agree with either & Goku has a few more moments like that in the Buu Saga (only there to force the plot along rather than Goku just being stupid). I get that Goku wanted Gohan to have aa good fight with a Cell that wasn't worn out, but that's straight-up idiotic. Like, why? Why would he do that?
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:13 pm
Toriyama outright said that Goku sees his family as companions and that even Vegeta is a better family man than he is.
True, but that doesn't mean Goku doesn't love them in his own way. He just sees them differently than other people would see them in his position. He regularly hangs out with them, has personally trained Gohan, lives with some of them, encourages them to be their best, & other things. Though, he's not a typical parent &, I'd argue, that he's never aspired to be. Not to say he doesn't have fatherly tendencies, but it's clear in their relationship that Chichi wanted the kids, not Goku. I don't think he's a bad parent either, he's just not a great one.
Vegeta is clearly trying to be a family man. He's just doing it in his own way. I don't disagree that Vegeta looks better by comparison, but I feel it's a bit unfair to compare them, since they're 2 different people with different relationships with their kids.
