Dragon Ball: Evolution- Speculation and Discussion

[omegacwa]

It's mostly Jappo's fault people are so on edge to begin with. Because he started out with a minority opinion, he kept guilty tripping people and causing shit storms to twist people into agreeing with him. He even set up a forum that has a thread for "Negative" opinions, segregating them from all the other opinions. Now more and more people are being guilt tripped, frustrated or chased into either being silent or changing their opinion. It's bullying.

I know I've been damn harsh on the mods/admin here, but it really is in your best interest to stop this kind of nonsense before it gets out of hand. I can guarantee this WILL Destroy this board, and other boards, if it gets out of hand. The same thing happened with Transformers.

Look, I have had a mostly positive outlook on the movie from the beginning. I don't mind most of the changes, I really don't. Does that make me less of a fan than you. Certainly not. I am a huge fan, and DragonBall as a whole has helped shape my life.

Look here are my points on the movie.

Goku is older, in highschool, Grandpa Gohan is alive and well.
I don't mind any of these changes as long as they are portrayed effectively, which I probably won't be able to know until I see the movie.

Goku is smarter, and appears to be interested in girls
again I don't exactly mind because it makes sense given the context of him being older, raised properly, and going to school.

Mai is Piccolo's henchmen
Well, this is somewhat accurate to the show, but her role has been expanded upon. I don't mind this. They clearly wanted a decent female villain, and she is actually the only good female villain from Dragonball anyway, so makes sense.

Gohan is killed by Piccolo, not Oozaru Goku
Well, as long as he is dead, and it's somewhat Goku's fault. This time Goku isn't there to protect Grandpa, then it still works out the same. Plus it intensifies Piccolo as a villain considering Krillin will not be present.

Roshi is younger and not as perverted
Understandable. I don't mind. From what we have gathered he is still supposed to be humorous, so that's good. As for his perverseness being toned down, makes sense to me. Our culture is different from Japanese culture. Perverseness is not as hush hush in Japan and widely consider funny, but in america where everyone is so afraid of even looking at younger girls, and all the sexual harrasmant suits that happen, makes sense to me to change it.

Things that are the same or similar:

Roshi will still use the Ma Fu Ba.
Goku will still train under Roshi, and use the KameHameha.
Bulma is still a genius inventor.
Yamcha is still a desert bandit.
Goku and Chi Chi end up together.
Goku and Piccolo fight to the death.
Goku will transform into Oozaru.
The dragonballs still summon Shenlong.
Piccolo was trapped somehwere and has been released and wants revenge.
Piccolo is still Namekian, green, and evil.
Roshi and Piccolo have a past.
Grandpa Gohan was Roshi's student.
Goku still wears the turtle gi, although it is slightly altered.
There will be flying, energy blasts, and high flying kung fu action.
Nyiobo will still be used.
Goku is still a Saiyan who was raised in the Country by Gohan
Goku still has his appetite
Goku is supposedly a doofus (according to reports)
Piccolo will use the Dragonballs to regain his youth.
Roshi will die from using the Mafuba, or killed by Piccolo.

I am sure there is more, but that's all I can think of for now.

[Tweaker]

You want to feel better about yourself by putting me down. That's understandable. I don't feel bad because I did nothing wrong, but continue to bash me if it'll help your problems.

Wow. WOW.

Did anybody else just see this? Am I seriously being unreasonable here? How the hell would any of you guys feel if the validity of your words were being disregarded like this? This is ridiculous.

[Rena Rune]

I'll retract absolutely nothing. I'm not the one once again insulting people's intelligence over their opinions on a movie made out of a cartoon.

How very convenient you ignore when assholes like Jappo do this. I don't insult people's intelligence for liking a shitty movie. I insult their intelligence for being goddamn terrible at debating and practically rubbing their "right" to argue poorly in my face.

Apparently, your idea of what a "bastardization" of such a property is seems different from most people (and VERY confusing in light of your defense of the dub, hence the "hypocrite" label).

Goddamn it's a word and it has a definition. Bastardisation means to alter something to better appropriate it towards another culture, language, or to fit in with something in general. When you "Bastardise" something to fit in with your average hollywood movie, this is not a very good thing at all. But it's what they're doing. Dragonball didn't need to be bastardised as there's little in there that can't be understood by western culture.

You mean THIS reason?

You flat out ignored what I said, and are now rubbing in my face.

This movie makes me happy. How 'bout that?

I meant what I said entirely. DragonBall, as a whole franchise, is purely for entertainment. Yes, there's the occasional lesson to be learned, or the neat, quirky little detail to be found, or the interesting plot twist or character development. But every good series have that. Even compared to other titles in it's genre, DragonBall is relatively "shallow." As big a fan as I am, with the library of facts in my head, and the fanart and fanfiction I do, and spending a lot of time on the forum...

What I don't do is allow myself to be so deeply immersed in or obsessed with it that I blind myself to the truth: "DragonBall is a goofy comic/cartoon largely about super-powered monkey-people who know kung-fu." Hence, why I'm not "offended" by a movie adaptation, just because the lead super-powered monkey acts a little differently than his cartoon counterpart.

You, meanwhile, rant for pages upon pages about how people should be able to use the wholly incorrect dub name "Tien" if they want to because "people can like and use whatever name they prefer, and trying to force them not to is a violation of their rights." Yet you then turn completely around, and proclaim that since this movie is different than the original, that NOBODY should like it. Do you see why I called you a "hypocrite?" Are you aware of what that word implies?

Dragonball is a massively influential anime. It doesn't matter if it's "shallow", it was one of the first anime of it's type so it's not going to be Hurr EVA deep. An anime doesn't have to be "deep" to be important and have soul. The problem with your average hollywood movie is that it isn't deep, and doesn't have soul, but it tries to be deep.

Just because you decide one anime you like is ultimately "shallow" doesn't mean they should just cut it up and alter it for the sake of it. Try harder. "Just because" a character acts a little differently(completely differently, rather). You assign no importance to character whatsoever, so it's easy to see why the overall "character", personality of a movie would not bother you, no matter how poor.

WHY change it to begin with? Goku was a very special character that represented a kind of innocence that Hollywood seems to like to tear to pieces. Why did they need to change it?

If it's upsetting people, don't change it. Fans who "Like" the changes, if they were a fan of the original Dragonball, shouldn't mind either way. That's why none of this makes any fucking sense.

You, meanwhile, rant for pages upon pages about how people should be able to use the wholly incorrect dub name "Tien" if they want to because "people can like and use whatever name they prefer, and trying to force them not to is a violation of their rights." Yet you then turn completely around, and proclaim that since this movie is different than the original, that NOBODY should like it. Do you see why I called you a "hypocrite?" Are you aware of what that word implies?

This is not hypocrisy. I outwardly admitted the dub made a shambles of Dragonball Z in many aspects. It is very possible the movie could be "good" in it's own right, some things I enjoy are twists on older concepts - but it still doesn't make what they did to the original in some cases, and to the fans fair at all. The problem isn't hypocrisy, it's that you're unable to think outside of simple monoliths.

I can see why Dragonball needs to be "dumbed down" for you, maybe.

Offensive language IS a big matter when you expect someone to take you seriously

If you're "Intelligent" enough to extract the offensive language from my post like this, you should be able to ignore it.

If you're not going to go by the rules of debate, then don't post in a debate.

[JulieYBM]

This thread is solely about the supposed review meaning when I come in here I wish to only see posts about said review and NOT this crap. I'm no mod, but I am a concerned member who simply wishes to enter a topic and see and participate in discussion of that topic. Thank you and please let us continue with this topic.

I haven't been able to tell, but has this review officially been rebuked? I am at least hoping the use of the Makankô-sappô is true.

[JAPPO]

This thread is solely about the supposed review meaning when I come in here I wish to only see posts about said review and NOT this crap. I'm no mod, but I am a concerned member who simply wishes to enter a topic and see and participate in discussion of that topic. Thank you and please let us continue with this topic.

I haven't been able to tell, but has this review officially been rebuked? I am at least hoping the use of the Makankô-sappô is true.

It was completely fake, the poster on IMDB was a troll as stated numerous times.

[Chrono Trigger]

Even worse the faker was the owner of the French blog site.

[JAPPO]

Even worse the faker was the owner of the French blog site.

I don't think he's the owner of that blog (he lied about being someone I know too).

[Chrono Trigger]

I don't know anything about that other than he thought he was legit. I don't think he's the owner of that blog.

He said he was the owner of that French site and he lied because his page wasn't getting hits/attention. He posed as a bunch of other people on several forums to perpetuate his own made up rumors.

[Rena Rune]

Listing the similarities is stupid because in something based on something, you're always going to find some similarities. But there's at least as many differences, which is bad.

Roshi will still use the Ma Fu Ba.

And most likely Mutaito sama will get no mention; Tenshinhan will not appear and attempt to use it after Roshi, etc. etc.

Goku will still train under Roshi, and use the KameHameha.

Goku trains under his grandfather, as a young adult not a child, before training under Roshi. I also doubt Goku will use his "Rock Paper Scissors" attacks from early in the series that were his trademark before the Kamehameha.

Bulma is still a genius inventor.

Bulma is also now some kind of EXTREEEM leatherclad gunslinger. Her hair is wrong too.

Yamcha is still a desert bandit.

And has crappy bleached hair, doesn't wear anything that looks like any of Yamcha's outfits, doesn't hang around with any animal resembling Puar, doesn't really look anything like Yamcha and most likely won't act like him either.

Goku and Chi Chi end up together.

Except HE lusts after her, and not the other way around. The Gyumao doesn't seem to be in this either.

Goku and Piccolo fight to the death.

Piccolo doesn't have Tambourine kill Krillin before hand. Heck, Tambourine isn't even in this. Or Krillin.

Goku will transform into Oozaru.

Goku transforms. Whether he transforms into anything that resembles a Great Ape has yet to be seen.

The dragonballs still summon Shenlong.

On some crazy dragon altar by the looks of it, and it's likely Shenlong himself won't even appear.

Piccolo was trapped somehwere and has been released and wants revenge.

He was trapped by "Seven mystics" instead of Mutaito-sama.

Piccolo is still Namekian, green, and evil.

He lacks Piccolo's antannae, his costume looks nothing like any of Piccolo's, and his overall face design does not resemble the Aged Piccolo Daimo, the young Piccolo Daimo, or Piccolo Jr.

Roshi and Piccolo have a past.

Not the same past.

Grandpa Gohan was Roshi's student.

Grandpa Gohan was alive just before Goku meets Roshi... also Gohan doesn't get killed by Oozaru Goku.

Goku still wears the turtle gi, although it is slightly altered.

His hair is also complete ass in terms of emulating anime hair, when compared to most Visual Kei artists and the like. His pants are the wrong colour(though I don't mind black pants personally), and he's missing his tail.

There will be flying, energy blasts, and high flying kung fu action.

Most people didn't fly during the Piccolo Daimo arc. Plus, what you described could be true of any Dragonball knock off. Heck, some Rozen Maiden fights come close to that.

Nyiobo will still be used.

It probably doesn't extend like the original, at least near as far, and I doubt they'll use the Karin's tower backstory.

Goku is still a Saiyan who was raised in the Country by Gohan

And goes to highschool. And has little or none of the naiveity and innocence and charisma of the original character, he is now simply a bit dim.

Goku still has his appetite

We've seen him eating a chicken leg.

Goku is supposedly a doofus (according to reports)

Goku isn't meant to be a "doofus" (-_-)\ He's meant to be innocent and child like and naive, even as an adult.

Piccolo will use the Dragonballs to regain his youth.

Do we know this for sure? And will he resemble young Piccolo Daimao when he makes the wish? Heck he isn't even called Piccolo DAIMAO in this is he.

Roshi will die from using the Mafuba, or killed by Piccolo.

Again, Mutaito-sama, Tenshinhan, etc.

[SSJ2bardock]

I'm not going to let deviations from the source ruin my enjoyment of a potentially fun adventure/martial arts film that is a loose adaptation of a franchise I enjoy.

Probably one of the best posts I've ever seen in my time here.

Because you agree with it.

Typically people don't think things are very good when they don't agree with it.... what are you getting at?

If someone made a very coherent, excellently reasoned point you didn't quite agree with, you wouldn't say it's one of the best posts.

Why would I say it's one of the best if I didn't agree with what he's saying, that's not logical.

There is nothing well structured about SGK's comment, it's just a basic statement.

Actually it was very well structured, just because he didn't go off on a lengthy, profanity filled tirade like you've been doing doesn't disqualify his point. When Lincoln made the Gettysburg Address he only spoke for about 2 minutes and his speech was very simple. The people who spoke before Lincoln were professional orators and had 2 hour speeches. Does anybody remember those people? No, they remember Lincoln. So next time you decide to disqualify somebody else's post simply because it was only one sentence long, just remember Lincoln.

Now what have we learned?

[Innagadadavida]

I have never understood the purpose of faking. The people who read it and believe it never credit or think to credit you, and once they find out you are ridiculed.

I was skeptical about the whole thing to begin with, but the things that he mentioned got me a little excited about the possibilities. What an idiot.

PS: Carry the debate elsewhere. Create a thread for debating the movie.

[Chrono Trigger]

I have never understood the purpose of faking. The people who read it and believe it never credit or think to credit you, and once they find out you are ridiculed.

I was skeptical about the whole thing to begin with, but the things that he mentioned got me a little excited about the possibilities. What an idiot.

I don't understand it either. It's funny because the last thing the guy said in his "confession" was: "I regret nothing."

[Rena Rune]

Probably one of the best posts I've ever seen in my time here.

Because you agree with it.

Typically people don't think things are very good when they don't agree with it.... what are you getting at?

If someone made a very coherent, excellently reasoned point you didn't quite agree with, you wouldn't say it's one of the best posts.

Why would I say it's one of the best if I didn't agree with what he's saying, that's not logical.

There is nothing well structured about SGK's comment, it's just a basic statement.

Actually it was very well structured, just because he didn't go off on a lengthy, profanity filled tirade like you've been doing doesn't disqualify his point. When Lincoln made the Gettysburg Address he only spoke for about 2 minutes and his speech was very simple. The people who spoke before Lincoln were professional orators and had 2 hour speeches. Does anybody remember those people? No, they remember Lincoln. So next time you decide to disqualify somebody else's post simply because it was only one sentence long, just remember Lincoln.

Now what have we learned?

That's not the point. The point isn't that you need 3+ pages to make a point, it's that there simply is no point in that statement.

I'm not going to let deviations from the source ruin my enjoyment of a potentially fun adventure/martial arts film that is a loose adaptation of a franchise I enjoy.

It's just a statement. There's no "because" or "why", there's no reasoning. It's just a statement, a generic pointlessly positive fanboy that's probably disappointed inside but won't admit it sort of dealie.

This is what someone on /a/ said:

"It's not about good or bad for them. The choice they make is between any movie and no movie, so they choose movie, despite it being a steaming pile. So instead of ever hoping for anyone to do a decent movie, you get retards supporting shit."

And also this:

http://plover.net/~bonds/objects.html

Once a work passes a certain basic all-round level of competence, it doesn't need the defence of fandom. It's impossible to imagine a fan of Animal Farm, the Well-Tempered Clavier, or the theory of gravity. Such works can defend themselves. But badness, especially badness of an obvious, monumental variety, inspires devotion. The quality of the work, in the face of such glaring shortcomings, becomes a matter of faith -- and faith is a much stronger bond than mere appreciation. It drives fans together, gives them strength against those who sneer. The sneers make their faith even stronger; the awfulness of the work reassures them of their belief.

[Innagadadavida]

Rena Rune, as entertaining as this is, it has to stop. At least on this thread. Why don't you create a new thread to continue this discussion.

[omegacwa]

Long post directed toward me

Look, it is obvious that you are holding this movie to some abnormal standard that will never be reached. Good for you.

I explained in my post why I don't mind the changes that have been made. A lot of the story elements that have been altered to conserve time I am assuming.

I pointed out things that are the same, and you just pointed out things that are different. That is great. I already knew the differences, and as I said, I don't really mind them, and I can't really tell you how I will feel about them entirely until I see the movie, and see everything in context.

This movie is an American Adaptation of a Japanese Anime. Changes are going to be made, and that's it. I can accept the changes because I am open to them, and they are not going to stop me from possibly enjoying the movie. Everything in the proper context might come out great. I am excited to see the final product, and to compare it to the original after, and even during, but until that time I can't tell you anymore than I already have.

[SSJ2bardock]

That's not the point. The point isn't that you need 3+ pages to make a point, it's that there simply is no point in that statement.

Um 3+ pages? I've only posted in this thread about 6 or 7 times, if anyone is needing that many pages it's you! I think you need to ask yourself, is it not the point because I proved you wrong or is it not the point because you don't agree with it? It's definitely one of the two, if not a combination of both.

[Mr. Announcer]

Dang, while I know there's no way any discussion of the live action movie can be peaceful, I didn't expect it to be this ugly.

I don't think that anyone is wrong for supporting this movie or accepting the changes made, but I will admit I am a bit sick and tired of some supporters presuming themselves to be taking the high ground by "giving it a chance" or just plain saying that the source material isn't a serious enough matter to warrant a faithful adaptation.

Let me seriously ask you, do you think that these decisions on the movie were made in the interest of making a GOOD movie? Scratch that, do you think this movie was even conceived in the interest of making a good movie? Probably not. The creators were out to make a quick buck off the superhero hype and martial arts revival going on.

People can say all they want about how the changes don't really matter and how everyone is going to go see it anyway, but I don't think we should be fooling ourselves into believing we're going to get any more than a mediocre (if that) teen action flick.

Right now in my personal opinion, based on the information we have and completely disregarding whether it is a proper adaptation of Dragonball, I would call this a lame movie. Some of you might find this cookie cutter premise appealing, but I don't think the rest of us should be considered stuck-up for not finding it entertaining in the slightest.

AND I am equally tired of people like Rena Rune pointing out every little thing that has been changed from the original. Of course things are going to be changed! It's a movie, not a manga. Not everything in the original is essential to making this film good, it's simply a matter of changing what doesn't work in a live action context and keeping what really matters. Of course, "what REALLY matters" is what this debate is actually about and a tough call to make considering how subjective it is.

Sorry to keep arguing, but it doesn't seem like the original topic of conversation is even applicable any more.

[SSJ2bardock]

I don't think that anyone is wrong for supporting this movie or accepting the changes made, but I will admit I am a bit sick and tired of some supporters presuming themselves to be taking the high ground by "giving it a chance" or just plain saying that the source material isn't a serious enough matter to warrant a faithful adaptation.

Nobody said we were taking the "high road" we're sort of just...... not being douches about the whole thing ya know? Quite honestly, I do not think this is going to be a very good dragonball movie, but on the other hand I think it can still be a pretty decent movie on it's own merit. What I am sick and tired of is people saying "Z0MG this is so different tehn the animez its gunna be a steaming piel of sheet!"

[Mr. Announcer]

I don't think that anyone is wrong for supporting this movie or accepting the changes made, but I will admit I am a bit sick and tired of some supporters presuming themselves to be taking the high ground by "giving it a chance" or just plain saying that the source material isn't a serious enough matter to warrant a faithful adaptation.

Nobody said we were taking the "high road" we're sort of just...... not being douches about the whole thing ya know? Quite honestly, I do not think this is going to be a very good dragonball movie, but on the other hand I think it can still be a pretty decent movie on it's own merit. What I am sick and tired of is people saying "Z0MG this is so different tehn the animez its gunna be a steaming piel of sheet!"

So you're basically defending the movie's right to be bad? Because I wont deny it that.

[SSJ2bardock]

I don't think that anyone is wrong for supporting this movie or accepting the changes made, but I will admit I am a bit sick and tired of some supporters presuming themselves to be taking the high ground by "giving it a chance" or just plain saying that the source material isn't a serious enough matter to warrant a faithful adaptation.

Nobody said we were taking the "high road" we're sort of just...... not being douches about the whole thing ya know? Quite honestly, I do not think this is going to be a very good dragonball movie, but on the other hand I think it can still be a pretty decent movie on it's own merit. What I am sick and tired of is people saying "Z0MG this is so different tehn the animez its gunna be a steaming piel of sheet!"

So you're basically defending the movie's right to be bad? Because I wont deny it that.

Yeah sure if that's how you want to see it, but I see it more as.... letting the movie come out in theaters before I deem it as a failure.