Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[MozillaVulpix]

Noobish sort of question here, but isn't Super the most ideal way of getting around the Yamamuro issue right now? If it's being outsourced to different teams, surely they're not as concerned about the art adhering to the character designs.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Noobish sort of question here, but isn't Super the most ideal way of getting around the Yamamuro issue right now? If it's being outsourced to different teams, surely they're not as concerned about the art adhering to the character designs.

The character sheets by Yamamuro are just a guideline to make sure that the character models drawn by key animators are not getting too much off the mark. Yamamuro can send the sheets to a different studio, but key animators and animation supervisors are not strictly subjected to Yamamuro's designs.

Naoki Tate, Mashiiro Shimanuki, and Shinuchi Iseki are all the example of not adhering to Yamamuro's designs. If key animators and supervisors wanted to, they could ignore his character designs.

[Alee9977]

Yamamuro's designs aren't that bad. For example, Futoshi Higashide draws on-model and he is giving us the best scenes on this arc, and I assume he is following Yamamuro's character design.

[Ajay]

Yamamuro's designs aren't that bad. For example, Futoshi Higashide draws on-model and he is giving us the best scenes on this arc, and I assume he is following Yamamuro's character design.

I think it's important to separate being on-model and animation quality -- to an extent, at least. A scene featuring Yamamuro's unappealing designs isn't automatically bad, in the same way that a scene that doesn't feature them isn't automatically good. It's about what you do with them in the context of your cuts that sets you apart from others.

I posted this example recently, but Higashide totally makes Yamamuro's work his own by breaking it apart and throwing his own touches on things. Shida does it by adding detail and unique shading to them, and Tate does it by simplifying the shapes and injecting cool movement. It's what animators should be doing, and it's one of the reasons why myself and many others dislike Yamamuro's approach to supervision. He wipes out animator-personality from cuts.

Then there's what makes up the scene -- the movement, the effects, the layouts. They're all hugely important in making a scene great. Higashide's latest cut demonstrated all three really nicely -- I particularly liked his smoke shapes and composition.

The quality of the model is only a small part of a much bigger picture. Good cuts featuring those designs don't make those designs good -- they're good in spite of them. No different to shows with awesome character designs but unexceptional animation -- Jojo Part 4, for example. You either strike a balance, or one side has to carry the other.

[FortuneSSJ]

Futoshi Higashide seems like a blessing to the production.
Is Super the first time he works on this franchise? Or he worked on it before?

[ArchedThunder]

Futoshi Higashide seems like a blessing to the production.
Is Super the first time he works on this franchise? Or he worked on it before?

According to Animator's Corner Episode 36 of Super was the first time he ever worked on Dragon Ball, however the site does have a lot of things missing.

[Hit!!]

Was he the one responsible for the shots in the first half of this video??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4nNtCKk4dk

I love how it looks, the colors, the shading, the highlights and the art is on point.

[A Man named RJ]

Tadayoshi Yamamuro isn't going anywhere, not with his years of experience with the franchise. He's a top dog at Toei Animation, along with all the higher-ups.

Sub-contracting a cour of Super to another studio would complicate the matters on the hands. All the parties involved would have to agree together. It isn't impossible, mind you, but it would require a lot of people to make the schedule work better.

If they indeed agree to sub-contract an entirely batch of episodes to a different studio, I would prefer for a studio to handle two cours. That would last you for six months, meaning Toei would have six months to pull together and go from there.

Yeah I'm aware that sub contracting to another studio would require a metric fuckton of meetings to make up for things. But I'm thinking something close to how TMS and A1 worked out their Conan and Magic kaitou deal. I mean A1 in that anime wound up adapting a couple of Detective Conan Cases and those were the work of TMS and Gosho Aoyoma. I assume the two studios to some degree got together to plan things out, I mean i could be completely wrong here, and they just did their own thing, but hey re adapting what's already been adapted? Sounds like some coordination was required. Or like how TMS Saint Seiya: TLC in Toei's stead, or like How Toei managed to still get co production credits in Yugioh GX.

I recon it wouldnt be that difficult either. Ship Yamamuro's sheets out to another company and have them work from there, Would it really be that difficult for Toei to send one of their own directors for super over to another studio so they can get their own work together?

Though i agree, 2 cours seems fine. And if it were to happen, it'd probably be A1 pictures, TMS Entertainment, or Sunrise. The goal is just to get the anime back on track. Technically they could also do what ONE-PUNCH man did and bring over a talent from another studio and have him work with staff he's familliar with.

Anything is better than constantly rushed and Janky production, and if the production quality rises, that's tons of overseas investment as well.

[dhaval_dongre]

Well at the least they are outsourcing Key Animation to studio Wanpack. They did it for 44, one more episode before that and also 51. Though we need to see more involvement from them, considering the schedule is still tight.

[Alee9977]

Tadayoshi Yamamuro isn't going anywhere, not with his years of experience with the franchise. He's a top dog at Toei Animation, along with all the higher-ups.

Sub-contracting a cour of Super to another studio would complicate the matters on the hands. All the parties involved would have to agree together. It isn't impossible, mind you, but it would require a lot of people to make the schedule work better.

If they indeed agree to sub-contract an entirely batch of episodes to a different studio, I would prefer for a studio to handle two cours. That would last you for six months, meaning Toei would have six months to pull together and go from there.

Yeah I'm aware that sub contracting to another studio would require a metric fuckton of meetings to make up for things. But I'm thinking something close to how TMS and A1 worked out their Conan and Magic kaitou deal. I mean A1 in that anime wound up adapting a couple of Detective Conan Cases and those were the work of TMS and Gosho Aoyoma. I assume the two studios to some degree got together to plan things out, I mean i could be completely wrong here, and they just did their own thing, but hey re adapting what's already been adapted? Sounds like some coordination was required. Or like how TMS Saint Seiya: TLC in Toei's stead, or like How Toei managed to still get co production credits in Yugioh GX.

I recon it wouldnt be that difficult either. Ship Yamamuro's sheets out to another company and have them work from there, Would it really be that difficult for Toei to send one of their own directors for super over to another studio so they can get their own work together?

Though i agree, 2 cours seems fine. And if it were to happen, it'd probably be A1 pictures, TMS Entertainment, or Sunrise. The goal is just to get the anime back on track. Technically they could also do what ONE-PUNCH man did and bring over a talent from another studio and have him work with staff he's familliar with.

Anything is better than constantly rushed and Janky production, and if the production quality rises, that's tons of overseas investment as well.

Yeah, it would be great if they subcontract to another studio will be great but what are the possibilities for that to happen? The schedule needs to be really bad so they can consider that option (I think), but that isn't the case.
And for me, there isn't a lot of difference between Toei and A1, in fact, I prefer Toei than A1, just look at Ace Attorney, it doesn't have good animation, they aren't following the original story and it's really bad how they handled a lot of things, just watch Ace Attorney OP 1, even that has bad animation on it, and it's really notorious. Also they could make DBS be like SAO, I like the animation, but not the fights, too flashy and only a little really good hits.

So, I trust more in Toei, they have been doing series like DB for years and they have more experience.

[FortuneSSJ]

With the production of One Piece Heart of Gold TV Special and Film Gold finally over, can we expect some more talented staff to join Super's producion soon?

[Ajay]

Might see a few people pop up, but Tiger Mask is also on the way. Hard to say.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Might see a few people pop up, but Tiger Mask is also on the way. Hard to say.

Has anything else been announced about the show like staff etc?

Edit- Nevermind found it on ANN.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Ajay, are you going to make this thread sticky? The animation aspect of the discussion in this sub-forum has been getting a lot of attention lately, and since there's a comparison thread, I think it would be a good idea to make this thread sticky so as to not clutter along with other animation threads.

[MonkeyKing16]

Might see a few people pop up, but Tiger Mask is also on the way. Hard to say.

Oh hey, my dad was a fan of this series when he was a kid.

[DragonHermit]

Does anyone know if rulers and compasses are used for drawing key shots of people (not backgrounds), or is that effect only achieved by layering with software? Was this also a practice back in the old days when animation wasn't digitalized to this degree?

I just cant see these animators with a ruler trying to draw Gokus chin

[JulieYBM]

Does anyone know if rulers and compasses are used for drawing key shots of people (not backgrounds), or is that effect only achieved by layering with software? Was this also a practice back in the old days when animation wasn't digitalized to this degree?

I just cant see these animators with a ruler trying to draw Gokus chin

It's all done by hand, unless mecha are involved. Oobari Masami once said he had to start using straight edges for his mechanical drawings because in-betweeners were having such a hard time trying to trace his complex lines.

[A Man named RJ]

Yeah, it would be great if they subcontract to another studio will be great but what are the possibilities for that to happen? The schedule needs to be really bad so they can consider that option (I think), but that isn't the case.
And for me, there isn't a lot of difference between Toei and A1, in fact, I prefer Toei than A1, just look at Ace Attorney, it doesn't have good animation, they aren't following the original story and it's really bad how they handled a lot of things, just watch Ace Attorney OP 1, even that has bad animation on it, and it's really notorious. Also they could make DBS be like SAO, I like the animation, but not the fights, too flashy and only a little really good hits.

So, I trust more in Toei, they have been doing series like DB for years and they have more experience.

Oh Yes, A1 is quite garbage. Not the animators, mind you, just the entire purpose of the company being to shit out as many shows as possible, which saturated the market and has made the "modern anime style" Which I hate with a blinding passion. But that might make them a good candidate to qickly make animation, and hey, Your Lie in April was at least good

[DragonHermit]

Does anyone know if rulers and compasses are used for drawing key shots of people (not backgrounds), or is that effect only achieved by layering with software? Was this also a practice back in the old days when animation wasn't digitalized to this degree?

I just cant see these animators with a ruler trying to draw Gokus chin

It's all done by hand, unless mecha are involved. Oobari Masami once said he had to start using straight edges for his mechanical drawings because in-betweeners were having such a hard time trying to trace his complex lines.

Just saw a Toei animation BTS video on yt, and yeah it seems its free hand. but they later smooth the lines digitally with a software called Retas(sorry if i got the name wrong). thats helpful, but i feel bad for the old school guys who didnt have ths luxury.

[A Man named RJ]

Does anyone know if rulers and compasses are used for drawing key shots of people (not backgrounds), or is that effect only achieved by layering with software? Was this also a practice back in the old days when animation wasn't digitalized to this degree?

I just cant see these animators with a ruler trying to draw Gokus chin

It's all done by hand, unless mecha are involved. Oobari Masami once said he had to start using straight edges for his mechanical drawings because in-betweeners were having such a hard time trying to trace his complex lines.

Just saw a Toei animation BTS video on yt, and yeah it seems its free hand. but they later smooth the lines digitally with a software called Retas(sorry if i got the name wrong). thats helpful, but i feel bad for the old school guys who didnt have ths luxury.

Core Retas Traceman and Paintman do have line smoothing options. but still most of the work is done by hand, including a lot of the smoothing, thickening and thinning. In my own"for the lulz" work with the software I found it to be tedious, but still quite useful once you get those shortcuts down.

Though nowadays more than ever, there are a metric ton of digital animators going around that make awesome use of Tablets. For instance people like Bahi_JD works in Flash

I personally find that Straight Linework is harder for me on my Cintique than it is by hand that drawing was entirely digital, and it's got a couple of line issues. So, I prefer to work by hand.