The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Krillin/Yamcha (23rd Budokai) vs. Piccolo Daimao (old)

Yamcha alone stomps. Pit them up against Young Daimao for a more fair fight.

[ZombieVito]

Krillin/Yamcha (23rd Budokai) vs. Piccolo Daimao

The team might pull it off if they can land surprise attacks on Daimao and fight smart. If they don't then Daimao beats them to a pulp in minutes.

[LightBing]

King Chapa (22nd TB) vs Akkuman - No devilmite beam

Grandpa Gohan vs Chiaotzu (22nd TB)

Master Roshi and Tsuru-sennin fusion dance vs Goku (23rd TB)

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

King Chapa (22nd TB) vs Akkuman - No devilmite beam

Grandpa Gohan vs Chiaotzu (22nd TB)

Master Roshi and Tsuru-sennin fusion dance vs Goku (23rd TB)

Chaozu >~ 22nd TB Chappa >~ post-Karin Goku >~/~ Son Gohan >>/>>> Devilman

That should answer your first two matches. Have no clue on the third one, though.

[LightBing]

King Chapa (22nd TB) vs Akkuman - No devilmite beam

Grandpa Gohan vs Chiaotzu (22nd TB)

Master Roshi and Tsuru-sennin fusion dance vs Goku (23rd TB)

Chaozu >~ 22nd TB Chappa >~ post-Karin Goku >~/~ Son Gohan >>/>>> Devilman

That should answer your first two matches. Have no clue on the second ones, though.

I don't see anyone besides Tenshinhan, Jackie Chun, Kuririn and maybe Yamcha, being stronger than post-Karin Goku. During the tournament Tao Pai Pai is used as a measuring stick, Jackie Chun was surprised Goku killed him. This put's Chapa below Tao Pai Pai.
Everyone's evaluation of Goku's possibilities in the preliminaries, is of the last time they saw him fighting against Grandpa Gohan, who is weaker than Tao Pai Pai, who is weaker than post- Karin Goku.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I don't see anyone besides Tenshinhan, Jackie Chun, Kuririn and maybe Yamcha, being stronger than post-Karin Goku. During the tournament Tao Pai Pai is used as a measuring stick, Jackie Chun was surprised Goku killed him. This put's Chapa below Tao Pai Pai.
Everyone's evaluation of Goku's possibilities in the preliminaries, is of the last time they saw him fighting against Grandpa Gohan, who is weaker than Tao Pai Pai, who is weaker than post- Karin Goku.

Roshi worried for Goku's chances against Chappa despite seeing/sensing Goku three years prior. Taopaipai being referenced can easily be explained as him being overestimated by his reputation, as that's what was brought up when referencing him.

Krillin also states Yamcha isn't much different from himself, so Yamcha surpasses post-Karin Goku as well.

[LightBing]

I don't see anyone besides Tenshinhan, Jackie Chun, Kuririn and maybe Yamcha, being stronger than post-Karin Goku. During the tournament Tao Pai Pai is used as a measuring stick, Jackie Chun was surprised Goku killed him. This put's Chapa below Tao Pai Pai.
Everyone's evaluation of Goku's possibilities in the preliminaries, is of the last time they saw him fighting against Grandpa Gohan, who is weaker than Tao Pai Pai, who is weaker than post- Karin Goku.

Roshi worried for Goku's chances against Chappa despite seeing/sensing Goku three years prior. Taopaipai being referenced can easily be explained as him being overestimated by his reputation, as that's what was brought up when referencing him.

Krillin also states Yamcha isn't much different from himself, so Yamcha surpasses post-Karin Goku as well.

Roshi didn't feel the full extent of Goku's power, just what he put out to defeat Grandpa Gohan. While Master Roshi might not know know powerful Tao Pai Pai was, Tenshinhan and Tsuru-sennin know. He also doubts Goku killed him (initially), this was after he destroys Yamcha and assumed he was the strongest of the Kame school.
This puts Yamcha below Tao Pai Pai... So I guess maybe only Goku, Tenshinhan and Jackie Chun are stronger than post Karin Goku.

post Karin Goku > Kuririn > Tao Pai Pai > Yamcha > King Chapa

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Roshi didn't feel the full extent of Goku's power, just what he put out to defeat Grandpa Gohan. While Master Roshi might not know know powerful Tao Pai Pai was, Tenshinhan and Tsuru-sennin knows. He also doubts Goku killed him (initially), this was after he destroys Yamcha and assumed he was the strongest of the Kame school.
This puts Yamcha below Tao Pai Pai... So I guess maybe only Goku, Tenshinhan and Jackie Chun are stronger than post Karin Goku.

post Karin Goku > Kuririn > Tao Pai Pai > Yamcha > King Chapa

Wait, where is it said Goku wasn't at full power against Gohan? Didn't he even stated he used his full power against Devil Man?

Krillin was confident in going against Goku at the 22nd, putting Krillin and by extent Yamcha above Goku's previous power.

[LightBing]

Roshi didn't feel the full extent of Goku's power, just what he put out to defeat Grandpa Gohan. While Master Roshi might not know know powerful Tao Pai Pai was, Tenshinhan and Tsuru-sennin knows. He also doubts Goku killed him (initially), this was after he destroys Yamcha and assumed he was the strongest of the Kame school.
This puts Yamcha below Tao Pai Pai... So I guess maybe only Goku, Tenshinhan and Jackie Chun are stronger than post Karin Goku.

post Karin Goku > Kuririn > Tao Pai Pai > Yamcha > King Chapa

Wait, where is it said Goku wasn't at full power against Gohan? Didn't he even stated he used his full power against Devil Man?

Krillin was confident in going against Goku at the 22nd, putting Krillin and by extent Yamcha above Goku's previous power.

You're right. He did go all-out. But my other points still stand. Tenshinhan would have said something, when Tsuru-sennin mentioned it was impossible for anyone of the Kame school to have defeated Tao Pai Pai. He even supported the view by saying it was an act of luck. This far more supports Yamcha being weaker than Tao Pai Pai.

Kuririn and Yamcha could still be weaker and think they had a chance just by powering up to a level that's close enough. Also, when Goku went all out not even Kame-senin was able to follow him. They could very well just be going by estimates, because at that time Goku was at a level hard to understand.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

You're right. He did go all-out. But my other points still stand. Tenshinhan would have said something, when Tsuru-sennin mentioned it was impossible for anyone of the Kame school to have defeated Tao Pai Pai. He even supported the view by saying it was an act of luck. This far more supports Yamcha being weaker than Tao Pai Pai.

Kuririn and Yamcha could still be weaker and think they had a chance just by powering up to a level that's close enough. Also, when Goku went all out not even Kame-senin was able to follow him. They could very well just be going by estimates, because at that time Goku was at a level hard to understand.

Roshi can sense Ki, so him not following Goku's movements doesn't mean he's unaware of Goku's strength; and since he knew Goku's strength from 3 years back, his concern for Goku's chances against Chappa places Chappa above Goku from 3 years back who humiliated Taopaipai.

Krillin and Yamcha should be above Chappa, as Krillin saw Goku destroy him and still felt confident. Maybe not stronger than the Goku who beat Chappa, but close enough to do something like you said.

[DBZAOTA482]

King Chapa (22nd TB) vs Akkuman - No devilmite beam

Grandpa Gohan vs Chiaotzu (22nd TB)

Master Roshi and Tsuru-sennin fusion dance vs Goku (23rd TB)

-King Chappa spanks Akkuman with 8-arms
-Gohan gets vaporized with Dodompa
-Goku stomps... unless you're following official/scouter numbers

[LightBing]

Roshi never doubted Goku would win against Chapa, he just said it would be a tough opponent. Only Yamcha thought Goku could lose and he was most likely going by fame. I meant to say only Yamcha and Kuririn could be going by estimates, not Master Roshi. Just using the Master Roshi example, that he couldn't keep up with the fight at the time and he was much stronger than his two students.

What do you say about Tenshinhan and Tsuru-sennin statements? Someone has to be wrong, either them or Yamcha and Kuririn by thinking they stand a chance against Goku.

[ZombieVito]

King Chapa (22nd TB) vs Akkuman - No devilmite beam

Grandpa Gohan vs Chiaotzu (22nd TB)

Master Roshi and Tsuru-sennin fusion dance vs Goku (23rd TB)

Chappa wins easily.
Chiaotzu wins with some difficulty.
This is very close but I still give this to Goku because of skill.

[DBZAOTA482]

Roshi never doubted Goku would win against Chapa, he just said it would be a tough opponent. Only Yamcha thought Goku could lose and he was most likely going by fame. I meant to say only Yamcha and Kuririn could be going by estimates, not Master Roshi. Just using the Master Roshi example, that he couldn't keep up with the fight at the time and he was much stronger than his two students.

What do you say about Tenshinhan and Tsuru-sennin statements? Someone has to be wrong, either them or Yamcha and Kuririn by thinking they stand a chance against Goku.

Yamcha and Krillin saw Chappa's movements during the fight, and still couldn't believe Goku won so easily (easily when he admitted he wasn't giving it his all) as opposed to Pamput who Goku, Krillin, and Tien all thought lowly of.

[LightBing]

Roshi never doubted Goku would win against Chapa, he just said it would be a tough opponent. Only Yamcha thought Goku could lose and he was most likely going by fame. I meant to say only Yamcha and Kuririn could be going by estimates, not Master Roshi. Just using the Master Roshi example, that he couldn't keep up with the fight at the time and he was much stronger than his two students.

What do you say about Tenshinhan and Tsuru-sennin statements? Someone has to be wrong, either them or Yamcha and Kuririn by thinking they stand a chance against Goku.

Yamcha and Krillin saw Chappa's movements during the fight, and still couldn't believe Goku won so easily (easily when he admitted he wasn't giving it his all) as opposed to Pamput who Goku, Krillin, and Tenshinhan all thought lowly of.

That furthers supports Yamcha and Kuririn lacking acute strength evaluation skills. Yes, Goku was indeed stronger than before, doesn't mean their presumption was on point. After Goku's fight with Panput, Kuririn agreed he wasn't that impressive. But he needed Master Roshi to explain to him that Panput was at a human level, him and Goku were superhuman. With Kuririn asking then, "why did I struggle with Chiaotzu and Yamcha lost against the other guy?" Master Roshi had to spell it out, “There’s no helping that. It’s because your opponents were also super masters who have surpassed the ordinary.”.
This show how unreliable their strength comparisons are. Only Goku, Tenshinhan and Kame-sennin provide reliable strength opinions.

Here's the full quote:
Chapter: 122, P13.3-7
Kame-sennin: “Panput was truly a fearsomely skilled master, but only when seen from an ordinary level…To your eyes, however, he didn’t look like anything special…That shows just how much you two have acquired strength that surpasses the ordinary.”
Kuririn: “But…Yamcha lost, and he was about as good as me. And even I had a really tough fight against that runt.”
Kame-sennin: “There’s no helping that. It’s because your opponents were also super masters who have surpassed the ordinary.”

That's I'm now convinced that this is the relative tiers of the tournament:

Goku/Tenshinhan/Jackie Chun > Kuririn > Tao Pai Pai > Yamcha/Chiaotzu > King Chapa

[In Brightest Day]

Lightbing, why would Yamcha be closer to Chaozu than Krillin? I don't get that impression at any point in the series, especially at the 22nd Budokai. The two of them trained together for an extended period and Roshi didn't protest Krillin comparing each other. Yamcha had even mastered the Kamehameha wave. Yamcha was arguably more impressive during the 22nd tournament.

[DBZAOTA482]

Roshi never doubted Goku would win against Chapa, he just said it would be a tough opponent. Only Yamcha thought Goku could lose and he was most likely going by fame. I meant to say only Yamcha and Kuririn could be going by estimates, not Master Roshi. Just using the Master Roshi example, that he couldn't keep up with the fight at the time and he was much stronger than his two students.

What do you say about Tenshinhan and Tsuru-sennin statements? Someone has to be wrong, either them or Yamcha and Kuririn by thinking they stand a chance against Goku.

Yamcha and Krillin saw Chappa's movements during the fight, and still couldn't believe Goku won so easily (easily when he admitted he wasn't giving it his all) as opposed to Pamput who Goku, Krillin, and Tenshinhan all thought lowly of.

That furthers supports Yamcha and Kuririn lacking acute strength evaluation skills. Yes, Goku was indeed stronger than before, doesn't mean their presumption was on point. After Goku's fight with Panput, Kuririn agreed he wasn't that impressive. But he needed Master Roshi to explain to him that Panput was at a human level, him and Goku were superhuman. With Kuririn asking then, "why did I struggle with Chiaotzu and Yamcha lost against the other guy?" Master Roshi had to spell it out, “There’s no helping that. It’s because your opponents were also super masters who have surpassed the ordinary.”.
This show how unreliable their strength comparisons are. Only Goku, Tenshinhan and Kame-sennin provide reliable strength opinions.

Here's the full quote:
Chapter: 122, P13.3-7
Kame-sennin: “Panput was truly a fearsomely skilled master, but only when seen from an ordinary level…To your eyes, however, he didn’t look like anything special…That shows just how much you two have acquired strength that surpasses the ordinary.”
Kuririn: “But…Yamcha lost, and he was about as good as me. And even I had a really tough fight against that runt.”
Kame-sennin: “There’s no helping that. It’s because your opponents were also super masters who have surpassed the ordinary.”

That's I'm now convinced that this is the relative tiers of the tournament:

Goku/Tenshinhan/Jackie Chun > Kuririn > Tao Pai Pai > Yamcha/Chiaotzu > King Chapa

How is Tao stronger than Yamcha, when the latter give Tien the hardest fight he had in the longest time for the quarter-finals and Krillin himself said Yamcha is about as good as he is?

[LightBing]

How is Tao stronger than Yamcha, when the latter give Tenshinhan the hardest fight he had in the longest time for the quarter-finals and Krillin himself said Yamcha is about as good as he is?

Tenshinhan acknowledged his power, but still defeated him soundly.Doesn't mean he's stronger than Tao. After the fight when he hears Goku say he killed Tao Pai Pai, he doubts it. And agrees with Tsuru-sennin that nobody of the Kame school could have done it. This puts Yamcha below Tao Pai Pai.

Kuririn might have undermined himself. For the reasons I stated in anterior posts, I don't think him or Yamcha are good at evaluating powers.

Lightbing, why would Yamcha be closer to Chaozu than Krillin? I don't get that impression at any point in the series, especially at the 22nd Budokai. The two of them trained together for an extended period and Roshi didn't protest Krillin comparing each other. Yamcha had even mastered the Kamehameha wave. Yamcha was arguably more impressive during the 22nd tournament.

I don't see it that way.
Kuririn never ever had tried to use the kamehameha, while Yamcha apparently had been training to master it. Master Roshi probably didn't trained all the time with them. Or he wouldn't be surprised when Yamcha tried the kamehameha.

I'd argue that Kuririn fared better against Goku than Yamcha did against Tenshinhan. The gap might not be big, but we know for sure that Kuririn is stronger than Tao (Goku says it's the best fight he had) and Tao is stronger than Yamcha(see my answers before).

[ZombieVito]

Base Vegeta [RoF or DBS ep.18] vs SSJ2 enraged Vegeta [DBS].

[Battousai]

Base Vegeta [RoF or DBS ep.18] vs SSJ2 enraged Vegeta [DBS].

Hard to say, it's a close fight. If SSJ2 enraged can keep his power for some time, I believe he would win, with mild difficulty. If enraged can only keep that power for a few minutes, base would win.