Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

People still denying SSJ2 Kefla above 110 UI goku. Poor souls.

This is just another example of the fandom causing the power scaling issues. Not TOEI.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Ssj2 Kefla is above 110 UI goku. He final attack has enought power to potentially KO UI goku if it hit him. And this UI goku was above 110 UI goku.

[SayianBeyondGod]

Ssj2 Kefla is above 110 UI goku. He final attack has enought power to potentially KO UI goku if it hit him. And this UI goku was above 110 UI goku.

That's when she's bloodlusted and using all of her power, characters in similar situations can exceed their limits look at Goku's kamekameka against fused Zamasu, Vegeta's final flash against Cell or Jiren. In the same time Goku was getting more fatigue in the fight he was heavily panting after punching Kefla and had to finish it off with a kamekameka, so it can be argued he was more weaken. Throughout the fight even the fatigue UI Goku with more polish movements was overpowering her and need less power up to ignite her to power up more. I don't see this an argument to argue she was above 110 Ui Goku especially with Goku being more fatigue. It doesn't make sense for her to just surpass SSBKK Goku from 115 or being inferior to Jiren more supressed than in 110 whom was rivalling UI Goku according to Vegeta.

[JazzMazz]

Ssj2 Kefla is above 110 UI goku. He final attack has enought power to potentially KO UI goku if it hit him. And this UI goku was above 110 UI goku.

That's not really good evidence of anything.

Kefla at that time was using a technique that allowed her shoot off hundreds of beams that could cut through anything like a laser, including Goku.

Thats like saying Kuririn was stronger than 1st form Freeza on Namek because his Kienzan could kill second form Freeza if it properly connected.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Ssj2 Kefla is above 110 UI goku. He final attack has enought power to potentially KO UI goku if it hit him. And this UI goku was above 110 UI goku.

That's not really good evidence of anything.

Kefla at that time was using a technique that allowed her shoot off hundreds of beams that could cut through anything like a laser, including Goku.

Thats like saying Kuririn was stronger than 1st form Freeza on Namek because his Kienzan could kill second form Freeza if it properly connected.

Not really. Krillins technique is designed to ignore durability. Kefla techniques was explicitly stated to about power, not durability negating. Theres a difference.

[JazzMazz]

Ssj2 Kefla is above 110 UI goku. He final attack has enought power to potentially KO UI goku if it hit him. And this UI goku was above 110 UI goku.

That's not really good evidence of anything.

Kefla at that time was using a technique that allowed her shoot off hundreds of beams that could cut through anything like a laser, including Goku.

Thats like saying Kuririn was stronger than 1st form Freeza on Namek because his Kienzan could kill second form Freeza if it properly connected.

Not really. Krillins technique is designed to ignore durability. Kefla techniques was explicitly stated to about power, not durability negating. Theres a difference.

But, it is durability negating, its designed to cut through things like a laser, just like the Kienzan. How isn't that durability negating?

[AvatarReiko]

I have another question regarding power levels. Back in the Cell arc, Trunks stated that his power had exceeded Cell's with the latter himself even admitting inferiority outright. The point of this fight was to show that Trunks was naive and only lacked the speed to hit Cell. So are we to conclude that if Trunks hadn't lost speed from his power up, he could have killed Cell? Or am I interpreting it wrong?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I have another question regarding power levels. Back in the Cell arc, Trunks stated that his power had exceeded Cell's with the latter himself even admitting inferiority outright. The point of this fight was to show that Trunks was naive and only lacked the speed to hit Cell. So are we to conclude that if Trunks hadn't lost speed from his power up, he could have killed Cell? Or am I interpreting it wrong?

That depends.

With the power levels both fighters displayed, Trunks probably could've killed Cell.

However, even to this day people are unsure if Cell was holding back his full power without bulking up or not, based on how his fight with Goku went.

[Rally 07]

I have another question regarding power levels. Back in the Cell arc, Trunks stated that his power had exceeded Cell's with the latter himself even admitting inferiority outright. The point of this fight was to show that Trunks was naive and only lacked the speed to hit Cell. So are we to conclude that if Trunks hadn't lost speed from his power up, he could have killed Cell? Or am I interpreting it wrong?

That depends.

With the power levels both fighters displayed, Trunks probably could've killed Cell.

However, even to this day people are unsure if Cell was holding back his full power without bulking up or not, based on how his fight with Goku went.

Oh yeah, But Trunks probably wasn't as powerful as Mastered Super Saiyan Gokou or Gohan though. He was fighting a less suppressed Cell. Nevertheless, Cell was just messing around with Gokou. It's been a while since I talked about Artificial Human Saga and Cell Saga characters and scaling. I'll have to re-watch the fights and analyze them closely.

[Kenneth La Torre]

So, with the reveal of perfected Utea Instinct goku, is it safe to assume jiren to be well above Ultra Instinct omen goku? I think so, otherwise perfected wouldn’t be needed.

[Bullza]

Would seem that way. With Ultra Instinct Goku from Episode 110 being weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Kefla and her being weaker than a suppressed Jiren then he should be well above.

[Kenneth La Torre]

All I hope is that with mastered UI, that the fight would be pretty even. I wouldn’t want goku stomping a guy whose level surpasses god of destruction.

[Hugo Boss]

I’m expecting as much as the others. I can still see the black-haired Ultra Instinct giving a surprisingly good match for a while, but the true fight will start once Goku goes silver.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I’m expecting as much as the others. I can still see the black-haired Ultra Instinct giving a surprising good match for a while, but the true fight will start once Goku goes silver.

I can see the omen version giving a good fight to a non full powered jiren, but that’s it. The mastered version is going to be much more powerful (it is the mastered version). I see jiren and MUI goku being pretty even, but goku having the edge due to having the best reflexes.
So I’m guessing goku is just outright going to beat jiren. I wanted freeza to play a part in the final fight, since I would have imagined jiren to be unbeatable.

[brett wheeler]

when the scan for xenoverse 2 revealed perfect ui as a playable character, they basically just state hes invincible in this form or pretty close at least, so I'm wondering if hes just giong to kick jirens ass do to his reflexes and attack potency combined,either way love the new form.

[Kenneth La Torre]

when the scan for xenoverse 2 revealed perfect ui as a playable character, they basically just state hes invincible in this form or pretty close at least, so I'm wondering if hes just giong to kick jirens ass do to his reflexes and attack potency combined,either way love the new form.

News scans didn’t state he was invincible at all. So idk what you mean. He can attack, defend, and counter without thinking. That doesn’t make one invincible. On the other hand, we do have a scan for spoilers stating jiren is “an invinsible man”. But my point is that neither are invinsible.

All that I hope that if goku has the upper hand, that it won’t be one sided.

[brett wheeler]

when the scan for xenoverse 2 revealed perfect ui as a playable character, they basically just state hes invincible in this form or pretty close at least, so I'm wondering if hes just giong to kick jirens ass do to his reflexes and attack potency combined,either way love the new form.

News scans didn’t state he was invincible at all. So idk what you mean. He can attack, defend, and counter without thinking. That doesn’t make one invincible. On the other hand, we do have a scan for spoilers stating jiren is “an invinsible man”. But my point is that neither are invinsible.

All that I hope that if goku has the upper hand, that it won’t be one sided.

oh my bad lol, I was watching a video and he said something like that and I got confused, I saw the actual scans now and I'm also relieved, hopefully even if it is completely one sided it wont just be one shot and done, altho I personaly think it will be like you said more even with goku having the upper hand, either way goku is giong to be above GoD lvl and on the level of jiren bare minimum I cant wait.

[Kenneth La Torre]

when the scan for xenoverse 2 revealed perfect ui as a playable character, they basically just state hes invincible in this form or pretty close at least, so I'm wondering if hes just giong to kick jirens ass do to his reflexes and attack potency combined,either way love the new form.

News scans didn’t state he was invincible at all. So idk what you mean. He can attack, defend, and counter without thinking. That doesn’t make one invincible. On the other hand, we do have a scan for spoilers stating jiren is “an invinsible man”. But my point is that neither are invinsible.

All that I hope that if goku has the upper hand, that it won’t be one sided.

oh my bad lol, I was watching a video and he said something like that and I got confused, I saw the actual scans now and I'm also relieved, hopefully even if it is completely one sided it wont just be one shot and done, altho I personaly think it will be like you said more even with goku having the upper hand, either way goku is giong to be above GoD lvl and on the level of jiren bare minimum I cant wait.

Goku should be above the gods completely. He has perfected something that only angels have perfected.

[Zamasu55]

It seems Kahseral, Cocotte, Kunshi, Tupper, Zoiray, Kettol and Vuon are all weaker than Ssj Goku in the manga.

[Lord Frieza]

It seems Kahseral, Cocotte, Kunshi, Tupper, Zoiray, Kettol and Vuon are all weaker than Ssj Goku in the manga.

Ouch, Looks like Toyo is not going to be treating a lot of these characters any better then the anime did if the rest of U11's team all rank that low.