Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Shin]

- And this is Super! Did you forget?
- I mean really it's the same reason as to how Piccolo pierced Raditz despite him being significantly weaker.

- We're discussing the movie version.

Uh, since when were the movies brought up? I thought we were discussing the anime.

[ArchedThunder]

- We're discussing the movie version.

We're discussing Super in a Super thread. The fact that in the movie they didn't show us Vegeta's training up to becoming God tier is irrelevant. It's really weird that you are trying to discredit Whis's training being the reason for Vegeta's power because it wasn't in the movie while simultaneously citing Tagoma as a reason that Piccolo could be God tier.

[Khin]

We're discussing Super in a Super thread. The fact that in the movie they didn't show us Vegeta's training up to becoming God tier is irrelevant. It's really weird that you are trying to discredit Whis's training being the reason for Vegeta's power because it wasn't in the movie while simultaneously citing Tagoma as a reason that Piccolo could be God tier.

I'm talking about the movie version when i said that we didn't get any clear info that Vegeta become a God Tier until turning SSGSS.

It's really weird that you are trying to discredit Whis's training being the reason for Vegeta's power because it wasn't in the movie while simultaneously citing Tagoma as a reason that Piccolo could be God tier

Yeah,and you're just ignoring the massive power gaps in the ROF Arc that i posted before.The fact that Tagoma got massively stronger just by training with Freeza for 4 months means that it isn't impossible for Piccolo to get a stronger as well through training with Gohan for around 8 months.


Anyway,this discussion isn't going anywhere and will just flood this thread.So i'll stop this.Let's just see how things will play out in the later episodes.

[ssbgoku]

Wow, new chapter just came out or just leak of it ;p. Anyway It seems Akira is really confused about all divine ki being integral part of goku, same with vegeta most likely. Why do I think that ?. Well first it is so funny when Master Roshi is used to meassure how goku become stronger and faster as he just notes( unless someone messed translation) he can not see him because they move so fast and so say Kirllin, is that mean to impress reader of goku's speed and his opponent ? Really ?

1. Master Roshi was in awe of goku's speed at the end of dragon ball part 1. Well he was totally unable to see Raditz movement. Even if he powered up before rof, he is still nowhere ginyuu force.

2. Krillin ?. Well he wasn't even able to track goku vs cell fight. I mean once they went all out they were so fast Krillin couldn't track them lol.

Ok, Keeping that in mind. It seems Akira tries to show us divine ki can be used to boost yourself, or they can just rely on their normal ki. I base it as noone comments Goku's power can not be felt from earth's crowd.

universe 6 saga arc:

botamo - first form frieza
first form frost - second form frieeza one(no rof)
third form frost - Android 16 (no rof)
base goku - above fourth form frieeza(no rof)
Final form frost - Perfect Cell
ssj goku - Super Perfect Cell

Picoolo not being scared and casually talking about fights make my base stronger that these fights are nothing to be impressed so much.
Also I would love to see what did happen with buu in universe 6. I would love that if champa bring him up as replacement or being secter plan. Maybe he is still in big slumber and he would be even more powerfull. Also Beerus's reaction to him would be great, especially with "goku, what the hell did hapen to buu in our universe" lol

Estimation:

Magetta - ssj2 vegeta/goku
base Cabba - buu arc ssj3 goku
ssj Cabba - ssj gotenks arc
base form Hit - buuhan
final form /transformation Hit - rof ssb vegeta

base gohan ~ Picoolo - buutenks
ssj gohan - buuhan
Base vegeta ~ base goku
ssj goku ~ ssj vegeta
base vegeta god ki ~ base goku god ki - golden frieeza after his stamina runs out and he was weakened
ssb goku/ssb vegeta - at least golden frieeza's full power
monaca - a bit stronger then ssb goku/ssb vegeta.

Well there may be some assumptions but generally it should work. Either way Master Roshi, Krillin and Picoolo's reaction make me sure we haven't seen anything being past buu arc ultimate gohan's power yet.

[apex_pretador]

Freeza in his Final Form, Botamo and Frost in his First Form.

How would you rank them?

Frost (3rd form) - 180
Freeza - 80
Frost - 53
Freeza(1st form) - 5
Botamo - 4

[Bullza]

I don't think Botamo was that weak, he was able to keep up with Goku somewhat and was even able to evade the Kamehameha plus he was able to withstand his punches being fat or not.

[Khin]

So does episode 30 really confirmed that Piccolo is stronger than the kids ? I'm still not quite convinced.Goku and Vegeta might have sensed Piccolo's power and how vastly he improved due to training with Gohan.They know where they were training after all so they probably sensed his ki.

[apex_pretador]

So does episode 30 really confirmed that Piccolo is stronger than the kids ? I'm still not quite convinced.Goku and Vegeta might have sensed Piccolo's power and how vastly he improved due to training with Gohan.They know where they were training after all so they probably sensed his ki.

- They just arrived from beerus planet. They were thinking about who should they take with them , & they thought of gohan first. Then goku says that since gohan doesn't like fighting, they must take piccolo instead. I think it is clear that goku doesn't know about gohan training w/ piccolo seriously.

- In RoF, they didn't sense piccolo (he was dead already). Piccolo didn't power-up after being revived either, & then they go to beerus' planet again.

- In battle against beerus, they might've sensed him. But it was not like he did power up to his best & fight, he was just taken out by chopsticks lol . Anyways, was goku even present when they fought?

- They didn't sense piccolo in buu arc either. He was never powered-up.

- They sensed him at CellGames, where he was not that far away from vegeta.

Either they speculated piccolo being much stronger than trunks due to his training over the years, or he was already above SS kid trunks at CG.

Or they could have sensed him sometime between buu arc & BoG in 5 yr gap, who knows?

[ZombieVito]

So does episode 30 really confirmed that Piccolo is stronger than the kids ? I'm still not quite convinced.Goku and Vegeta might have sensed Piccolo's power and how vastly he improved due to training with Gohan.They know where they were training after all so they probably sensed his ki.

Yes it is IMO. Goku didn't know (And was surprised) Gohan and Piccolo were training.

[apex_pretador]

and it (gladly) puts rest to all SS goten (pre) >> Piccolo arguments , let alone base saiyans > piccolo argument.

[Bullza]

The preview for the next episode showed Goku turning Super Saiyan against Botamo.

Not only does that imply that he may be stronger than what his manga counterpart showed but is perhaps more evidence that base Goku is not equal to SSJG afterall.

[TheMikado]

The preview for the next episode showed Goku turning Super Saiyan against Botamo.

Not only does that imply that he may be stronger than what his manga counterpart showed but is perhaps more evidence that base Goku is not equal to SSJG afterall.

Are you sure it was against Botamo and not Frost?

[Bullza]

That could indeed be a possibility, the way the preview was shown and because it didn't show Frost I just assumed he was using it against Botamo.

Him fighting Botamo and then Frost to the point he turns Super Saiyan seems too much for one episode but I think it was EP #34 that had Piccolo vs Frost.

So yeah it probably was for Frost.

[LongLostSaiyan]

Could be a good opportunity to bring back ss1 and 2 forms and maybe 3.. to show off before they bring back SSGSS

[Doctor.]

I think from the new OP, that the ranks are Hit > Cabba > Magetta > Frost > Botamo. All complete speculation though, of course.

[Bullza]

That Goku was able to turn into Super Saiyan only makes it all the more complicated for me and it was already complicated to begin with.

We were led to believe based on Beerus' comment in Super that

SSJ Goku = SSJG Goku

SSJB was supposed to be "the result of a Saiyan transforming into a Super Saiyan after absorbing and retaining the power of a god and training."

So why is Goku turning into a SSJ and not a SSJB? It would seem like SSJB is likely stronger than Goku using SSJ but why? What makes it stronger?

[LongLostSaiyan]

That Goku was able to turn into Super Saiyan only makes it all the more complicated for me and it was already complicated to begin with.

We were led to believe based on Beerus' comment in Super that

SSJ Goku = SSJG Goku

SSJB was supposed to be "the result of a Saiyan transforming into a Super Saiyan after absorbing and retaining the power of a god and training."

So why is Goku turning into a SSJ and not a SSJB? It would seem like SSJB is likely stronger than Goku using SSJ but why? What makes it stronger?

He's turning regular SSJ because he doesn't need to go SSJB yet, no use going all out this early.. I bet he will use SSJ2 and maybe 3 as well.

SSJ 1,23 = Goku using regular Ki

SSJB = Goku using God ki and going super Saiyan.. which is much stronger.

[Bullza]

Thinking more about it now I think perhaps the difference between Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Blue has something to do with this whole thing about powering up their Ki without letting it leak out because the first time they did that was when the SSJB tease happened.

Is the difference just that Super Saiyan Gold is them turning SSJ when letting their Ki leak out and Super Saiyan Blue is them turning SSJ without letting their Ki leak out. Thus they're keeping more power without it going to waste and that's why SSJB is stronger. And by not letting their Ki leak out is that also why Krillin, Gohan and the others couldn't sense Goku once he turned into a SSJB.

Goku is supposed to have Godly Ki at all times now right? So I don't know if it is something they can use like that by turning it on and off.

[Khin]

In ROF,wee see Goku briefly having regular SSj hair before going into Blooper.To me,it seems like Blooper is due to Goku mixing the God Ki with the regular SSj.So if Goku doesn't fuse/mix his God ki into his SSj,he will turn into regular SSj instead of Blooper.

The only reason why Goku transformed is to force Frost to transform into his Final Form.So Goku used his regular SSj which doesn't have any strain which the Blue form likely have.In this tournament,you need to save your energy as much as you can.

Yes it is IMO. Goku didn't know (And was surprised) Gohan and Piccolo were training.

Goku wasn't surprised that Gohan was training with Piccolo.

When Gohan tells Goku that he trained with Piccolo,Goku said something like ''So that's why'' which could mean into many things.Though he could only be talking about Gohan's hair.

[Birusu16]

Thinking more about it now I think perhaps the difference between Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Blue has something to do with this whole thing about powering up their Ki without letting it leak out because the first time they did that was when the SSJB tease happened.

Is the difference just that Super Saiyan Gold is them turning SSJ when letting their Ki leak out and Super Saiyan Blue is them turning SSJ without letting their Ki leak out. Thus they're keeping more power without it going to waste and that's why SSJB is stronger. And by not letting their Ki leak out is that also why Krillin, Gohan and the others couldn't sense Goku once he turned into a SSJB.

Goku is supposed to have Godly Ki at all times now right? So I don't know if it is something they can use like that by turning it on and off.

No. He can sense god ki in any form, but he only gains god ki when he uses his SSJB form. This is emphasized in his fight against Freeza. Once he transforms everybody states that they can no longer sense Goku's ki. So he has normal ki in all of his other forms.