Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Lord Beerus]

Vegeta defeating Freeza? Are you guys crazy? Freeza destroyed earth when was fighting Vegeta, Whis rewinded time and Goku killed him. How is that a Vegeta win?

Because at this stage, for fans of Vegeta, him beating up somebody counts as a win. Clutching at straws at it finest. He got a moment in the movie. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a moment. And I'm fine with that. It won't diminish my love for Dragon Ball as whole, and it shouldn't for anyone else. I'm just looking forward to what new adventures and enemies lie ahead for the franchise. There is always another story to be told in Dragon Ball.

[Doctor.]

There is too much here I disagree with, so I'll just address you're first and last point.

If you're talking about the line you put in bold, I already explained that I perhaps worded it wrongly. I was saying that I don't want to transmit the impression that I can write a better film than Toriyama, just that I expected something more; not the other way around. If you're talking about my whole ideas in general, then fair enough, it's your opinion after all.

You would like 10K or 100K members of Freeza's army to show up and fight. Okay, but that's much easier said than done. Someone needs to draw and animate these soldiers. This is a completely unrealistic expectation. Even from an in-universe perspective, Freeza was confident in his new form, so in his eyes, it would be pointless to bring that many soldiers. And that's also assuming that there would even be 10,000 solders who haven't abandoned the army. 1,000 was enough of a statement.

Nobody would be there to count the number of soldiers in each frame. A simple statement would easily be enough. The point isn't whether or not Freeza was confident, the point is that having trouble with 1k soldiers is ridiculous. Who knows? Maybe they all dispatch of the soldiers easily, but seeing as how apparently has trouble with a Zarbon level soldier, I somewhat doubt that.

The ending you proposed would be interesting enough, but Toriyama would NEVER write something like that. It is far too grim, and an insane burden to put on such a light-hearted character. Whis is NOT trying to teach Goku a lesson in morality or maturity, he is training him to be a better fighter.

Except he did that with Gohan back in the Cell arc and then with Goku and Vegeta back in the Boo arc. It wouldn't be a permanent ending, as we now by the end of the manga, Earth is restored again.

[dbzfan7]

Use only a part of the summary ignoring the rest.

No one's ignoring the rest of the summary. The problem is that the rest of the summary doesn't make him look any better.

We ain't the one's ignoring the summary that's for sure. Though the rest of summary makes him look great, so long as you cover your eyes at each part that wasn't so good.

[Duo]

Goken, it's fine that you feel that way, but you're not getting my point. I drew comparison between the two situations in order to show that there was never any significant/memorable outrage over Gohan going through a similar situation to what Vegeta goes through in the new movie. At the very least, it shows that these types of narrative decisions have existed in the story long before the new movie.

[Big Momma]

I feel like Vegeta definitely got his chance to shine. Even if in the end he didn't win the fight, the whole reason the earth was destroyed was because of him beating Freeza and getting cocky. Sure, in the end he let his guard down and let the Earth get destroyed. But before that he was probably doing really well. He had his shining moment, it just didn't last.

[sintzu]

Maybe Vegeta's moment was devalued a bit.

Toriyama managed to hit 2 birds with 1 stone,he gave Vegeta a victory over a main villain like he said he would but he did it in a way that doesn't make Goku look like a secondary character in the story by letting him kill Freeza.

[SansrivaaL]

Use only a part of the summary ignoring the rest.

No one's ignoring the rest of the summary. The problem is that the rest of the summary doesn't make him look any better.

We ain't the one's ignoring the summary that's for sure. Though the rest of summary makes him look great, so long as you cover your eyes at each part that wasn't so good.

^This right here. I mean I'm a Goku/Gohan/Goten fan but I dont let myself be blinded by their flaws and if they have their bad moments.

[Kamiccolo9]

Maybe Vegeta's moment was devalued a bit, but he's still sitting in a much nicer boat than anybody else in the supporting cast.

That's true, but nobody's claiming that the rest of the supporting cast have finally had their "big moment," that they are "the main star of the movie," that Vegeta was "the one to finally, truly defeat Freeza," that Vegeta would "pick up after Goku failed and turn around and save the day." I put these in quotes because they have been spat out as fact since the first poster showed up.

There's nothing wrong with liking Vegeta as portrayed in the movie. I think it's consistent with how Vegeta's been portrayed since the end of the Buu Arc. But people are holding Vegeta to totally different standards than other characters, and are just clasping their hands over their ears and screaming when you try to say that maybe, just maybe, Vegeta's not quite as much of a badass as he's being made out to be.

I fully agree with your SSJ2 Gohan point, and he's being held to the same arbitrary standards that Vegeta currently is. But Gohan's not in the spotlight now.

[Tsufuru]

ok so i read the summary again just to be sure what I'm reading.

maybe Toriyama is hinting that goku and vegeta now will fight in team battles ?

i mean they had to learn there lesson the hard way but he gave whis that ability so everything is normal again in the end.
this is the only way this movie makes sense imo.

[Lord Frieza]

Really this is just sad, Frieza spent the most of the movie getting the crap beaten out of him and then has his win erased yet you dont see us Freeza fans bitching this much.

[GeeRod]

Goku killed him. How is that a Vegeta win?

Whis rewound the clock to before the planet blew up so the movie ended with Vegeta defeating Freeza and Goku killing him.

Vegeta killed Nappa so does that mean it isn't a Goku win ?

Vegeta killed recoom and burter so does that mean those weren't Goku wins ?

Of course isn't a Goku win, what you talking about?

So are you saying that with Whis rewinding time and Freeza not blowing up Earth his fight with Vegeta continue on and Vegeta defeated him? I don't think this is how it worked on the movie...

[Lord Beerus]

Vegeta defeated who? didnt Freeza blow up the earth that resulted in Vegeta's death? guess it would have been better then if Whis didnt revert back time, then Vegeta could have won and at the same time dead while Freeza lost but he still lives... dang u Whis why u revert back time to save Vegeta, he could have won! I feel like there is something very wrong with what I just said.....

No, you just summed up the situation awesomely. Vegeta got "robbed" of his victory by Whis by rewinding time and preventing Vegeta from dying and the Earth from being destroyed.

Whis prevented Vegeta from becoming a martyr.

[sintzu]

maybe Toriyama is hinting that goku and vegeta now will fight in team battles ?

That'll be a nice change and it'll probably be funny as well.

[Lord Beerus]

Really this is just sad, Freeza spent the most of the movie getting the crap beaten out of him and then has his win erased yet you dont see us Freeza fans bitching this much.

I think most Freeza fans are just content with the fact that Freeza returned became a threat again, even though it didn't last long.

[Mystic Tien]

Someone needs to draw and animate these soldiers. This is a completely unrealistic expectation.

This has nothing to do with Toriyama. It is Toei's job. If they can't properly animate thousands of characters, it is only their problem.

[sintzu]

So are you saying that with Whis rewinding time and Freeza not blowing up Earth his fight with Vegeta continue on and Vegeta defeated him? I don't think this is how it worked on the movie...

This is what happens after Whis rewinds time : "Once again, Freeza is on his hands and knees".

Who got him on his hands and knees ? Vegeta which = defeat.

[dbzfan7]

^This right here. I mean I'm a Goku/Gohan/Goten fan but I dont let myself be blinded by their flaws and if they have their bad moments.

Exactly. I'm not hyping up Gohan kicking the shit out of Shisami, cause what's to hype? He beat up some guy much weaker than him. It'd be like if I said every time Gohan in the saiyan arc cowered wasn't his fault or he was awesome. Like when he didn't just kill Cell right when he had the chance. Or when he slacked off and let himself get weak, and still does that. Or when he repeated the Cell problem by not killing Boo right away and not pushing Gotenks aside.

[Tsufuru]

i dont see how vegeta isnt seen as a winner tbh.

irrelevant if goku killed freezer or not.

its like me beating some1 to death and in the last second he pulla a gun and than another guy shoots him.

he killed him but i won the battle.

[Lord Frieza]

Really this is just sad, Freeza spent the most of the movie getting the crap beaten out of him and then has his win erased yet you dont see us Freeza fans bitching this much.

I think most Freeza fans are just content with the fact that Freeza returned became a threat again, even though it didn't last long.

Guess your right, but Vegeta fans shouldn't be acting like Brolytards. Vegeta was at least was beaten by Frieza and didnt get shot threw chest by a minion like Goku did.

[bubibartra]

This Vegeta situation is somewhat humorous if you take into account that Gohan went through something pretty similar during the Cell Game. He finally obtains the power and opportunity to be the hero, and attempts to blow himself up along with everybody. Only Freeza did it better. Does everybody view Gohan as not having been badass because of all that? Or is it OK because Gohan still gets the final blow later? A final blow that he only really gets because Vegeta distracts Cell...

Don't say that man, because they'll harass you saying that Vegeta is held to a double standard. Yet the parallels between the two situations is scarily similar, the only difference is that this movie was probably written with Goku to get the final blow in mind, so they created that do-over time travel event so that he could be the one to finish him. But alas, can't convince the haters.

No, "Gohan being an idiot for not ending the fight when he could have" is generally the most popular viewpoint around here. I doubt you'll find many people defending Gohan's actions as Super Saiyan 2.

But no, we're "haters" for pointing out flawed statements by fanboys and showing them why they are wrong. I guess anybody who disagrees with you is a hater, then?

Gohan in the Cells games was awesome, Toriyama destroyed Gohan after. But it is not fault of vegeta,o Vegeta´s fans
Toriyama simply failed to make adult Gohan and almost accidentally wrote an impressive vegetation in the Boo´s arc. Vegeta so received all the hate from fans of Gohan that unforgiven that Vegeta stole the show to Gohan as co-star but I´d like kid Gohan and only I hope Toriyama not to destroy Goten and Trunks also.
I'm angry with Toriyama for ruining Kid Gohan, Many people hate gohan so he was after but Kid gohan was awesome,I started watching Dragon ball in 1990 ... I remenber that before of Boo, nobody hated gohan, then Gohan was a constant disappointment... but Vegeta, Piccolo and Goku are good characters, awesome characters. Hater Goku, or Vegeta or Piccolo I do not understand...