Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 16; Still Unreleased

[Super Sayian Prime]

It's been a few years at this point but I don't recall any edits being done to Death Note on YTV. The delay in the premiere was due to the US broadcast having been originally scheduled for a month later. You obviously can't allow us Canadians to watch a show dubbed in Canada before the Americans!

[Fennekin]

I just hope this dub isn't TV exclusive.

[Kuwabara]

It's been a few years at this point but I don't recall any edits being done to Death Note on YTV.

I find it mildly amusing that Death Note even aired on YTV.

As for this dub, it would be pretty funny if there was a 100+ page thread about something that never actually came to fruition at all.

[TheBlackPaladin]

As for this dub, it would be pretty funny if there was a 100+ page thread about something that never actually came to fruition at all.

I made a bet a few pages back that this thread would reach 124 pages when the dub actually came out. It looks like I may lose that bet...

[Kendamu]

I just hope this dub isn't TV exclusive.

It would find its way onto the web if it were.

[Cold Skin]

So, I've been used to the Funimation dub for years (through the majority of video games since the Budokai series, and a few clips here and there)... What's the feeling on that Ocean dub very basically? (note that I've never heard it)

I'm not asking for generic information about when it was done and on which channel it aired and all, but more about the quality of the voices and voice acting and the potential of an Ocean dub for Kai.
Do you guys want it because the voices match the characters better, or the voice actors do a better job of being in-character, or just to have a "new" experience different than the usual Funimation dub, or out of curiosity, out of nostalgia?
Opinions are a subjective thing, so there's no definitive answer to that, but from a very general perspective, would people seem to appreciate more the Funimation voices or the Ocean voices? What's the overall feeling about it?

[penguintruth]

Well, for the most part, I prefer Kelamis to Schemmel, Drummond to Sabat (though the gap has mostly closed), McNeil to Sabat, Henderson to Nadolny (but not to Clinkenbeard), and Lindbjerg to Vollmer (but not to Rial). The Ocean Chi-Chi(s) aren't that much better than the Funimation one, Tenshinhan's never had a good dub voice, and I can go either way on Kuririn. I've liked every voice for (younger) Dende and older Gohan, though.

As far as most of the other performances, tolerable at best, terrible otherwise.

[TheBlackPaladin]

So, I've been used to the Funimation dub for years (through the majority of video games since the Budokai series, and a few clips here and there)... What's the feeling on that Ocean dub very basically? (note that I've never heard it)

I'm not asking for generic information about when it was done and on which channel it aired and all, but more about the quality of the voices and voice acting and the potential of an Ocean dub for Kai.
Do you guys want it because the voices match the characters better, or the voice actors do a better job of being in-character, or just to have a "new" experience different than the usual Funimation dub, or out of curiosity, out of nostalgia?
Opinions are a subjective thing, so there's no definitive answer to that, but from a very general perspective, would people seem to appreciate more the Funimation voices or the Ocean voices? What's the overall feeling about it?

What's the overall feeling about it? Oh boy.......well, let's put it this way. The website, "Behind the Voice Actors," on one of their comparison pages, says, "Never ask a DBZ fan which dub they prefer." Of course, that's hyperbole and meant as a humorous statement to those who are aware of the history behind the dubs (and the fandoms for each), but essentially, what they mean by that is that the "FUNimation vs Ocean" debate is one of the more intense debates among dub fans, and occasionally gets so over-the-top that people start swearing at each other.

In essence, there is no overall feeling about it. It's really a 50/50 thing, from what I can tell.

I won't say whether I prefer the Ocean cast or the FUNimation cast, but what I will say is that when people bring up the Ocean dub, it's almost always two particular performances that get singled out as being particularly excellent: Scott McNeil's Piccolo and Brian Drummond's Vegeta.

McNeil's Piccolo in particular has been very well-received, and come to think of it, I don't believe I've ever seen anybody who says that his performance was bad. On very, very, VERY rare occasions I will see someone who says that he was "just OK," but I can honestly never recall anybody saying that he was bad. It really is a delight to listen to, and even during the early days of the DBZ dub, it was one of the few English dub performances to be received well by fans of the original Japanese version. It's hard to pick a highlight here, which may be the greatest compliment an actor could get.

As for Drummond's Vegeta...we know now that, at the time, he was directed to play Vegeta like a psychopath. Which is not a completely accurate way to describe his character, but hey, that's the direction he was given, and considering that I think he did an excellent job. He sounds cocky, arrogant, and when he wants to get angry......HO DAMN can he get angry!

(Fun Fact: To get to that video, I just typed, "my wrath"...no mention of DBZ, no mention of Drummond, Vegeta, nothing like that, just "my wrath"...and it was the first video to appear on the search results list...which could potentially be interpreted as a very powerful statement for how memorable this moment of Drummond's performance was.)

Goku is a bit weird to judge with regard to the Ocean dub, because the Ocean dub went through three different voice actors for Goku. So when you talk about an "overall feeling" it's hard to get an "overall feeling" for Goku in the context of the Ocean dub. However, among Kanzenshuuers and fans of the original Japanese version, there seems to be a great affinity for Peter Kelamis, the second voice. Of all three Ocean dub voices for Goku, he is the highest-pitched voice, in effect making him the most similar-sounding to Masako Nozawa. One of the highlights of his performance that many people point to is his (correctly-pronounced!) Kaioken in Movie 2.

Reasons for why people are excited for the Ocean dub of Kai varry. For me, it's because it's an opportunity for me to re-experience the voices I first heard when I watched DBZ for the first time, and because I'd love to see what they can do with a more faithfully-written script.

[Ringworm128]

Didn't Kelamis say he had heard Nozawa's Goku? I wonder if that scream from Movie 2 was done on purpose by Kelamis or the director as a nod to the original version and it's fans.

[ABED]

Kelamis might have a Nozawa-esque sounding voice, but he lacks her performance.

I fully agree with BlackPaladin's assessment of Drummond's Vegeta.

I have a soft spot for the Ocean dub, but I have little interest in this product. I have a dub I love, and the performances are terrific (by and large).

Ocean Dende was good, but Cynthia Delgado I've never cared for.

Matt Smith was awful as Tenshinhan, but I stand by my statement that Burgmeier is excellent as the character, especially now that his voice is more natural (ie less rasp).

[TheBlackPaladin]

Didn't Kelamis say he had heard Nozawa's Goku? I wonder if that scream from Movie 2 was done on purpose by Kelamis or the director as a nod to the original version and it's fans.

Oh well they've all heard the original DBZ. Perhaps not full episodes, but all the voice actors have heard the original Japanese voices before, that's part of the process of dubbing. What happens is, before the dubbing voice actor records their particular set of lines, a "preview clip" is played to them on a monitor, showing the visuals of what they will dub (so they know how to time their delivery of their lines to match the lip movements of the characters) and the engineer also plays the original Japanese audio of that particular scene to the dubbing actor through their headphones so that the dubbing actor can get a feel for the emotional context of the scene. They actors don't get scripts ahead of time and, in most cases (especially back in those days when the internet was horrifically slow), they don't watch the episodes ahead of time. So, all they have to go on for determining the emotional context of their lines is...

1) Watching the "preview clip" before they dub their set of lines.
2) Inferring from the writing what the emotional tone should be.
3) Referring to their director for the intended emotional tone......which is why a dub's director is often the unsung hero or the unsung villain.

For a more direct example of ADR-style dubbing, which is how both the Ocean dub and the FUNimation dub was recorded, feel free to watch this clip.

As for whether or not that scream was a tribute to Nozawa, I think it was just a combination of fortunate coincidence and good direction. The director of the three uncut, Ocean-dubbed movies was Karl Willems, who has a reputation for directing great English dubs (the dub of "Death Note" being one of the more notable examples). In actuality, Kelamis was cast as Goku because the previous voice actor, Ian Corlett, quit, and they were trying to find as close a voice match as possible for Corlett. They brought in Kelamis because Corlett had actually been brought in to serve as a voice match for previous roles that Kelamis did in other cartoons. Now I can tell a difference, but I have to admit, as a kid, I had no idea that Corlett ever left.

[ABED]

In the early days of FUNi, I don't think they used the preview clip method. I know they do now, though. I think it would've been a huge help if they had it from the outset.

[Android17]

So wait... what happened to the NDA for Ocean Kai supposedly expiring in March? Shouldn't we have heard something at this point?

[Fionordequester]

They brought in Kelamis because Corlett had actually been brought in to serve as a voice match for previous roles that Kelamis did in other cartoons. Now I can tell a difference, but I have to admit, as a kid, I had no idea that Corlett ever left.

...Really ? I actually watched most of the Ocean dub as an 18 year old, and I noticed almost immediately that, for some inexplicable reason, Goku's voice suddenly went up several pitches.

As for Scott McNeil, I wouldn't say his performance was bad either...but it was kind of weird once the Westwood dub came around (though I'm sure it was the direction). He ALways HAD this certain RHYthm of TALking and would usually have this very sleepy way of talking. And then when he would scream sometimes...oh man....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGuiJMJW1NY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aAr2VaAltE

Although I will say that even here, he didn't chew the scenery as much as Imperfect Cell did (and THANK GOODNESS that guy started getting better once he became Semi-
Perfect!).

[TheBlackPaladin]

So wait... what happened to the NDA for Ocean Kai supposedly expiring in March? Shouldn't we have heard something at this point?

I suspect it has been delayed again due to the sudden, new inclusion of the Buu arc.

They brought in Kelamis because Corlett had actually been brought in to serve as a voice match for previous roles that Kelamis did in other cartoons. Now I can tell a difference, but I have to admit, as a kid, I had no idea that Corlett ever left.

...Really ? I actually watched most of the Ocean dub as an 18 year old, and I noticed almost immediately that, for some inexplicable reason, Goku's voice suddenly went up several pitches.

Well, to be fair, I was 11. Fortunately for FUNimation, my ears were easily fooled as a kid. I also couldn't tell that Chris Sabat was doing the voices for so many of the characters. I definitely noticed when they started doing the voice acting themselves rather than outsourcing it to Ocean, but that was the only time when re-casts became (VERY) apparent to me.

[Ringworm128]

Back when I was a kid I could easily tell that the voices for the Starfox game were different for each entry so kids aren't that easily fooled. Even back when I was 12-13 watching DBZ for the first time I quickly figured out Tao Pai Pai and Dr Gero had the same voice actor.

[Fionordequester]

Back when I was a kid I could easily tell that the voices for the Starfox game were different for each entry so kids aren't that easily fooled. Even back when I was 12-13 watching DBZ for the first time I quickly figured out Tao Pai Pai and Dr Gero had the same voice actor.

Well, it probably differs from person to person.

[KingofWisdom]

would usually have this very sleepy way of talking.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought this. In episode one, when he's remarking about Raditz's ki, I thought it sounded like he was talking in his sleep.

[NitroEX]

I too noticed the change in Mcneil's Piccolo. I think it was either him doing it on purpose to show Piccolo's change after training Gohan (sounding less evil) or like most actors he was just filling into the role and finding a sweet spot that was most comfortable for him.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

So wait... what happened to the NDA for Ocean Kai supposedly expiring in March? Shouldn't we have heard something at this point?

I suspect it has been delayed again due to the sudden, new inclusion of the Buu arc.

They brought in Kelamis because Corlett had actually been brought in to serve as a voice match for previous roles that Kelamis did in other cartoons. Now I can tell a difference, but I have to admit, as a kid, I had no idea that Corlett ever left.

...Really ? I actually watched most of the Ocean dub as an 18 year old, and I noticed almost immediately that, for some inexplicable reason, Goku's voice suddenly went up several pitches.

Well, to be fair, I was 11. Fortunately for FUNimation, my ears were easily fooled as a kid. I also couldn't tell that Chris Sabat was doing the voices for so many of the characters. I definitely noticed when they started doing the voice acting themselves rather than outsourcing it to Ocean, but that was the only time when re-casts became (VERY) apparent to me.

I remember when DBZ was continuing past episode 53 I was like.. hmm something isn't right here.
I also had that WTF moment when I first watched dragon ball in English considering I've grown up with the Japanese version.
Even with that in mind I still enjoyed watching the ocean dub, considering I never got to watch the first few arks (even though we have the recordings and have watched the broadcast version of "Z" in it's entirety and they now rest in a vault and they all have protective covers as well).