Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 16; Still Unreleased

[songohan619]

In the early days of FUNi, I don't think they used the preview clip method. I know they do now, though. I think it would've been a huge help if they had it from the outset.

Not saying I don`t believe you, but how do you know this?

[ABED]

I seem to remember it in an interview(s), but I'm not certain. Plus, I've seen numerous clips on Youtube where Sabat said FUNi didn't have access to the original show, and they had to get the Mexican dub.

[KingofWisdom]

The performances are telling too.

Sabat: Okay, here's the Japanese performance. . . . Now do the complete opposite of that.

[El Diabeetus]

I seem to remember it in an interview(s), but I'm not certain. Plus, I've seen numerous clips on Youtube where Sabat said FUNi didn't have access to the original show, and they had to get the Mexican dub.

Even then, if they had the Mexican dub it should've turned out relatively accurate given the Mexican dub's praise for faithfulness.

[penguintruth]

I don't know how anyone was fooled by Sabat. His Vegeta and Piccolo sounded nearly identical when they debuted.

If Funimation couldn't find enough VAs for the characters, they shouldn't have switched to doing things in-house to begin with. Just like if they couldn't get the Japanese version to work with, couldn't get good translators, couldn't do an accurate script, they should never have taken on the project. You don't take on a huge project like DBZ and then try to get things right as you go along, you do it right or not at all.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I seem to remember it in an interview(s), but I'm not certain. Plus, I've seen numerous clips on Youtube where Sabat said FUNi didn't have access to the original show, and they had to get the Mexican dub.

Even then, if they had the Mexican dub it should've turned out relatively accurate given the Mexican dub's praise for faithfulness.

It's unclear to what extent they had the Mexican version and to what extent they had the Japanese version. Yes, Sabat did mention having to dub off of the Mexican version, but on the other hand, FUNimation began releasing bilingual, uncut DVDs around the time they started dubbing in-house. And they have since gone on to release the original Japanese version in its entirety. So they had the Japanese audio lying around somewhere...I'm not sure where they were using the original Japanese audio as a reference and where they were using the Mexican Spanish dub audio as a reference. In any event, I'm sure that even when they were using the Mexican Spanish dub, they still showed the actors preview clips (otherwise they wouldn't know how to time the delivery of their lines to fit the lip movements), it's just that the audio they had to listen to was the Mexican Spanish dub audio.

I've also seen interviews with Nadolny and Kelamis talking about how they heard the original Japanese version. So I'm convinced that they used the Japanese audio in parts and the Mexican Spanish audio in parts. Where they used what audio track for a reference will likely be an eternal mystery to us.

As far as translations are concerned, it's also unclear what was going on there. Steve Simmons, the official translator/subtitle writer for DBZ and Kai-related home video releases, has said in an interview that FUNimation had "rather haggard" English translations of the scripts provided to them directly by Toei. It would appear from what others have said that to call these translations "rather haggard" was actually being pretty generous, though.

If Funimation couldn't find enough VAs for the characters, they shouldn't have switched to doing things in-house to begin with. Just like if they couldn't get the Japanese version to work with, couldn't get good translators, couldn't do an accurate script, they should never have taken on the project. You don't take on a huge project like DBZ and then try to get things right as you go along, you do it right or not at all.

Probably true, yeah, but I'm of the "better late than never" mentality, and in my opinion, that's what we got in the Kai dub. I'm sure not everybody will agree, but the errors they made in their DBZ dub don't bother me nearly as much now that the Kai dub exists as an alternative. What's done is done.

[penguintruth]

They should have parked a couple of people who know Japanese well in front of a TV and have them watch the Japanese version raw, and then translate. And then pay them.

They clearly had the Japanese original at least as early as Season 3, but did they do that? No.

If you aren't capable and willing to do at least that to get an accurate English version, you shouldn't be in the business.

[TheBlackPaladin]

They should have parked a couple of people who know Japanese well in front of a TV and have them watch the Japanese version raw, and then translate. And then pay them.

They clearly had the Japanese original at least as early as Season 3, but did they do that? No.

Well, they did. It's just that, with Toei's blessing, the idea of making a faithful English dub was forgone in favor of "reversioning" the show for an American audience so that it would catch on, be popular, and make money...which, let's not forget, is all Toei really wanted anyway.

In any event, it really doesn't bother me as much anymore now that the Kai dub exists. They may not have been interested in making faithful English dubs back then, but they clearly are now. That won't be good enough for everyone, but it's good enough for me. While a loyal dub from the start would have been better, in a way it's cool that FUNimation has improved in time, because it shows they were listening...unlike other dubbing companies like 4Kids who got criticism after criticism after criticism and yet didn't really change their approach to dubbing.

[KingofWisdom]

If anything, 4Kids got worse with time, almost as if to spite the legion of anime fans who loathed their practices.

[ABED]

"otherwise they wouldn't know how to time the delivery of their lines to fit the lip movements"

You don't need the audio to do that.

"It would appear from what others have said that to call these translations "rather haggard" was actually being pretty generous, though"

It also didn't help that writers like Neil Bligh/Christopher Neel seems intent on putting his own spin on everything.

"If Funimation couldn't find enough VAs for the characters, they shouldn't have switched to doing things in-house to begin with. Just like if they couldn't get the Japanese version to work with, couldn't get good translators, couldn't do an accurate script, they should never have taken on the project. You don't take on a huge project like DBZ and then try to get things right as you go along, you do it right or not at all."

But you'd be stupid to let up that kind of money. A big reason for the in house dub was because the Ocean group was more expensive, plus the logistics of it being in Canada were difficult for a young company.

They clearly had the Japanese original at least as early as Season 3,

How is that clear? Plenty of interviews would suggest otherwise.

I don't know how anyone was fooled by Sabat. His Vegeta and Piccolo sounded nearly identical when they debuted.

You can tell it's the same voice actor, but they don't sound identical AT ALL. It baffles me that you would say they sound identical when the pitch of their voices are completely different. His Piccolo was far deeper than his Drummond impression. They're closer now because both characters now have deep voices, but Vegeta is raspier, while Sabat's current Piccolo voice is his normal voice pitched down. His previous Piccolo voice was also very deep but it had more gravel.

The performances are telling too.
Sabat: Okay, here's the Japanese performance. . . . Now do the complete opposite of that.

They didn't have the original.

[penguintruth]

They did have the Japanese version. Peter Kelamis mentioned it to Chris Psaros in an old interview. And clearly they had it during Season 3, which is when they started releasing bilingual DVDs.

I have seen and heard the Japanese version only during recordings of the show. There are times when the producer actually has to check direct translations to see if they make sense. The level and emotion of the original performance is attempted to be re-created but not the voice. If I tried to re-create the original voice I think I would run the risk of hitting a note so high that I may not be able to have children in future life.

http://animecauldron.com/dbzuncensored/ ... lamis.html

So in fact they had it before season 3.

[ABED]

They did have the Japanese version. Peter Kelamis mentioned it to Chris Psaros in an old interview. And clearly they had it during Season 3, which is when they started releasing bilingual DVDs.

They released them a year later. The VHS came out in 99, and the recording started a year earlier. The DVDs didn't come out until 2000.

Either Sabat is BSing people or something happened in the interim period, and Sabat seems like an honest guy. He often says in Q and A's that during the early days when he was there, they didn't have the original.

[TheBlackPaladin]

They did have the Japanese version. Peter Kelamis mentioned it to Chris Psaros in an old interview. And clearly they had it during Season 3, which is when they started releasing bilingual DVDs.

They released them a year later. The VHS came out in 99, and the recording started a year earlier. The DVDs didn't come out until 2000.

Either Sabat is BSing people or something happened in the interim period, and Sabat seems like an honest guy. He often says in Q and A's that during the early days when he was there, they didn't have the original.

Hence my theory that they must have had both, depending on which part of the series we're talking about.

[penguintruth]

I'm more likely to believe Kelamis, who has no reason to lie. Corlett said something similar.

Anyway, it was Funimation's job to get the Japanese version, to ensure the accuracy of the dub. Even if it was raw, like I said, they could have hired translators. Surely there are some people in the Fort Worth area who speak languages other than English (or what passes for such in Texas).

[Fionordequester]

Personally I believe it's even possible that Chris Sabat was given false information by his own company. After all, I remember Scott Morgan, one of the musicians at FaulconerProductions, saying that FUNI actually tried to tell him that Trunk's was a villain so that he and the other musicians would make scary music as to try to build up suspense as to whether or not Trunk's was a good guy. Of course, Scott actually knew better since he was visiting sites some DBZ fansites, but of course, he was still made to make this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLfZQKtMV44

...for Trunk's vs. Frieza anyways.

[ABED]

Hence my theory that they must have had both, depending on which part of the series we're talking about.

But if you listen to early interviews, the in house cast seemed ignorant of the original, by and large.

Think how much better accurate scripts and a knowledgable producer or director would've made the product, even with a green cast.

[Attitudefan]

Personally I believe it's even possible that Chris Sabat was given false information by his own company. After all, I remember Scott Morgan, one of the musicians at FaulconerProductions, saying that FUNI actually tried to tell him that Trunk's was a villain so that he and the other musicians would make scary music as to try to build up suspense as to whether or not Trunk's was a good guy. Of course, Scott actually knew better since he was visiting sites some DBZ fansites, but of course, he was still made to make this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLfZQKtMV44

...for Trunk's vs. Freeza anyways.

Well, the orginal was supposed to be "Heaven Sent Trunks" to be Trunks' theme, but FUNi didn't want that placement. So really, we can and should blame the executives for all the problems the DBZ got.

[Hades]

@Penguintruth

We get it, the old dub was bad in every way. You don't have to on about how it's an unholy amalgamation of Spec Ops: The Line and A Serbian Film.

[VegettoEX]

@Penguintruth

We get it, the old dub was bad in every way. You don't have to on about how it's an unholy amalgamation of Spec Ops: The Line and A Serbian Film.

And every single time he's making a relevant comment in a relevant thread about relevant dubs, we don't need someone popping in to comment on how he's doing so.

Those of you who disagree with him are just creating this self-fulfilling prophecy of endless cycles of comments that would just go away if you would also stop saying the same thing over and over.

[ABED]

English (or what passes for such in Texas).

Really? Texas isn't the boonies. Texans speak English fine.

Penguin, What reason does Sabat have to lie? I agree that they could've hired translators, but I'm not sure how much better the scripts would've been. Even with the inexperienced talent , I think they could've put out a good product if they hired a director who knew the show, and kept the scripts accurate to the source material, as well as not being beholden to the Ocean dub's cast. Imitations may be the sincerest form of flattery, but they kill good acting. The actors came into their own when they made it their own, for the most part.