The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Tien "apparently" being a master sounds like a secondhand opinion. Like, he was supposedly good, but since he was down in one kick, he obviously wasn't. To me, Boo just seems to be boasting about his superiority in the situation instead of directly comparing him to Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

[FNF]

Well Krillin/Goku only discover that Krillin's of no use against Babidi's men after Dabura's introduced and remember they were already expecting the henchmen to be stronger than Freeza. Going by that Krillin's already implied to be able to beat 100% Freeza.

Not quite sure how that makes Kuririn > Freeza?

@Son_Gohan

Really

Kaioshin tells them that despite him being able to wipe out Freeza in a single blow, he doesn't think he would be able to defeat them(Babidi/Henchmen) by himself.
Then later Dabura is introduced and it's only then these quotes come into play;

Goku: “Kuririn, you’d better go back. Things seem a lot more dangerous than we thought”
Kuririn: “Wo-would you let me do that?...haha…It-it doesn’t look like things are at a level where I’d be very useful…”

So basically they didn't think Krillin wouldn't be able to handle himself prior to Dabura's introduction. Even then it seems like Goku and perhaps Krillin were overrating Dabura due to him being the ruler of the demon realm because Goku and co laugh off Dabura after they see his initial movement.



As for Tenshinhan I think he's pretty beastly, but I don't think he's near Goku's standard of strength. Via his Kikoho he could be stronger but I think the point of Gotenks-Boo's comment was that the difference between Goku's and Tenshinhan's power would make no difference. Think of it like ;

Gotenks-Boo= 100

Goku= 10

Tenshinhan= <<10

At the end of the day Goku is still going to end up like Tenshinhan.

[Kaboom]

"<character> came along for the ride, thus he must be at least stronger than <character>" is pretty shaky logic and an awfully big assumption to make.

[FNF]

"<character> came along for the ride, thus he must be at least stronger than <character>" is pretty shaky logic and an awfully big assumption to make.

You aren't getting it either man. No where am I saying 'he went with them thus he must be stronger than Freeza'. The fact of the matter it both Goku and Krillin only think he's of no use after Dabura is introduced. No where is it suggested that Krillin is of no use against Babidi/his henchmen.

[hleV]

Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and Kaioshin presumably could've taken an opponent of Freeza's (and higher) level down without giving them a chance to do anything. However Dabra is introduced, and he's tougher than that (he spit on Piccolo & Kuririn, after all).

[Fox666]

Kaioshin tells them that despite him being able to wipe out Freeza in a single blow, he doesn't think he would be able to defeat them(Babidi/Henchmen) by himself.
Then later Dabura is introduced and it's only then these quotes come into play;

Goku: “Kuririn, you’d better go back. Things seem a lot more dangerous than we thought”
Kuririn: “Wo-would you let me do that?...haha…It-it doesn’t look like things are at a level where I’d be very useful…”

So basically they didn't think Krillin wouldn't be able to handle himself prior to Dabura's introduction. Even then it seems like Goku and perhaps Krillin were overrating Dabura due to him being the ruler of the demon realm because Goku and co laugh off Dabura after they see his initial movement.

Kaioshin was the one who could defeat Freeza in a single blow, they had no idea of what Babidi's henchmen would be like. The moment Kaioshin confirmed it included someone even himself would not be able to handle, Kuririn tought of going back.

[Saiga]

Tenshinhan "apparently" being a master sounds like a secondhand opinion. Like, he was supposedly good, but since he was down in one kick, he obviously wasn't. To me, Boo just seems to be boasting about his superiority in the situation instead of directly comparing him to Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

I agree with this. Tenshinhan did absolutely nothing to impress Boo, he was just being condescending. Tenshinhan shouldn't even be near base Goku let alone SS3 Goku.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Yamcha (23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai) vs. Karin
Yamcha (start of Saiyan arc) vs. Karin

Before anyone says it, Karin's official battle power of 190 is wrong, as it's over Gokuu's 180 and before the Super God Water, Karin says that Gokuu had already surpassed him.

Chapter: 150, P13.2-4
Context: Goku asks Karin to train him more
Karin: “Unfortunately…There’s nothing more for me to teach you…[ ] Yeah…I understand how you feel, but…You’ve already acquired enough power to surpass even me”…
Note: Previously, I had mistakenly put that Goku had almost gotten more power than Karin, due to carelessly mistaking mou sude ni/"already" for mou sugu ni/"almost"/"very soon". Sorry about that.

[dbgtFO]

Yamcha wins in both scenarios(I only think he got a slight increase in power between those two points).

[Fox666]

If we are going to dismiss the official battle powers, we don't what Goku's battle power was at the time, since 180 is given only in the guidebooks.

And if we are really going to dismiss the official battle powers, we should also be skeptic about the manga. Thus we should also ignore the reading of 177 for Yamcha after the death of Raditz.

[Piccolo Daimao]

If we are going to dismiss the official battle powers, we don't what Goku's battle power was at the time, since 180 is given only in the guidebooks.

And if we are really going to dismiss the official battle powers, we should also be skeptic about the manga. Thus we should also ignore the reading of 177 for Yamcha after the death of Raditz.

No, I mean Karin's official battle power of 190, which is over Gokuu's 180, directly contradicts the manga having Karin say that Goku had already surpassed him. I'm not necessarily saying that we should dismiss all the official battle powers. Just that this one can't work, and no, I'm not going to try and twist it into making some semblance of sense with a warped theory that it meant Karin powering up for an attack when it's not even said anywhere.

There's nothing that contradicts 177 for Yamcha, so we shouldn't throw it just because there are some official battle powers that don't make sense. Of course, I understand neither the manga nor the official publications are perfect, since they've both made other contradictions too, but since the manga's the primary source on which the publications are based on, we should go with that.

[dbgtFO]

Yes considering the new info we've been given, the battle power for Karin is inconsistent with what he actually said in the series.

Though I can't say it's out of the realm of possibility that Goku got stronger from fighting Yajirobe, Tambourine and Piccolo, which (conveniently) made him surpass Karin just before visiting him.. but that comes off as pretty unconvincing and has vibes of being thought out only to make his official battle power work. At least that's how I see it.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Though I can't say it's out of the realm of possibility that Goku got stronger from fighting Yajirobe, Tambourine and Piccolo, which (conveniently) made him surpass Karin just before visiting him.. but that comes off as pretty unconvincing and has vibes of being thought out only to make his official battle power work. At least that's how I see it.

Yeah, that's basically a contrived stretch to twist certain battle powers into working. I could make the same stretch others have made and say that Piccolo's 3,500 was actually a reading of his Makankousappou, but if that was the case, why wouldn't they list it there and mislead people into thinking that it's just his full power? So what, his real full power is something like 2,500 and the guidebooks strangely only bothered to put down his Makankousappou's BP, but not his actual power?

We don't know whether or not Gokuu got stronger from fighting Yajirobe, Tambourine and/or Piccolo, and even if he did, we don't know how much. Therefore, it's best to just take Gokuu's battle power as being 180 up until he drank the Super God Water, at which point he rose to 260.

Anyway, this is distracting from the match-ups I set out, so let's move back on-topic, please.

[CatouttaHell]

Yamucha godstomps. I feel that by the 23rd TB he is closing in on Young Piccolo Daimao, who is implied to be worlds above Old Piccolo Daimao, who completely tanked a Kamehameha from Son Goku at just 40% of his power.

What about SSjin 3 Gogeta vs. Gotenks-Boo?

[Piccolo Daimao]

What about SSjin 3 Gogeta vs. Gotenks-Boo?

SS3 Gogeta effortlessly godstomps. If Gogeta's presumably not that far off from Vegetto, SS3 Gogeta would almost definitely put him over even SS Vegetto, meaning he'd be able to choke him to death with his own antennae.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that while I think 23rd TB Yamcha is only slightly stronger than Karin and, as God said, can make too many unnecessary movements that leave him wide open, I think that his Soukidan would assure his victory. So Karin might push him into a corner with his superior knowledge of ki and subtle but effective movements, but then Yamcha would pull out his Soukidan and defeat him. This is because the Soukidan took even the much stronger God by surprise, knocking him into the air, and he even commended him for it. So in the Saiyan arc, he'd have an even easier win.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I think Super Saiyan 3 Gogeta crush that Boo easily. Heck, Super Saiyan Gogeta might be enough to take him down.

I'd also give the victory to Yamcha in both battles.

[Kaboom]

Goku seemed to think a Fusion Dance product of himself and Gohan would be able to beat Gotenks-Boo, and presumably the result of him fusing with Vegeta wouldn't be too different. Yet we don't know how far the Fusion might need to transform or anything.

So I'm going to play it safe and assume that Gogeta would need Super Saiyan 2 to guarantee the win against Gotenks-Boo. Super Saiyan 3 would be major overkill.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Goku seemed to think a Fusion Dance product of himself and Gohan would be able to beat Gotenks-Boo, and presumably the result of him fusing with Vegeta wouldn't be too different. Yet we don't know how far the Fusion might need to transform or anything.

So I'm going to play it safe and assume that Gogeta would need Super Saiyan 2 to guarantee the win against Gotenks-Boo. Super Saiyan 3 would be major overkill.

I always thought that was just because Gokuu thought there was no other option. Fusion was practically the only and strongest option that they had, and Gokuu wasn't going to sit around for hours waiting for the old Kaioushin to do the same power-awakening ritual he did on Gohan, because in that time, Earth might get destroyed. Although you have a point; Kaioushin never said that it wouldn't work, just that he didn't expect Boo to give them the time to do the dance.

But Vegeta's much weaker than Gohan (unless you're counting the rivalry boost which may or may not play a part in Metamoran fusion), and how would it even work if both of them have to be around the same power? Even SS3 Goku isn't anywhere near Gohan now.

However, I agree with you that SS2 Gogeta would definitely seal the deal. Maybe even just regular SS, but I'm not sure. I don't think Gogeta and Vegetto should be all that different, but who knows?

[CatouttaHell]

Goku seemed to think a Fusion Dance product of himself and Gohan would be able to beat Gotenks-Boo, and presumably the result of him fusing with Vegeta wouldn't be too different.

That's because Elder Kaioshin told him that Potara had a much greater effect than Metamorian though.

Gotenks-Boo thought Gokan wouldn't be able to beat him but decided to step in just in case (probably because he loses his shit any time somebody shatters his belief of superiority.)

Gohan-Boo just didn't think Son Goku and Vegeta's fusion would stand a chance against him at all.

Yet we don't know how far the Fusion might need to transform or anything.

So I'm going to play it safe and assume that Gogeta would need Super Saiyan 2 to guarantee the win against Gotenks-Boo. Super Saiyan 3 would be major overkill.

So you think SSjin 2 Goku is more than twice as powerful as SSjin 3 Goten (a 8x gap at least going by SEG multipliers?) Just curious, that's all.

[FNF]

Kaioshin tells them that despite him being able to wipe out Freeza in a single blow, he doesn't think he would be able to defeat them(Babidi/Henchmen) by himself.
Then later Dabura is introduced and it's only then these quotes come into play;

Goku: “Kuririn, you’d better go back. Things seem a lot more dangerous than we thought”
Kuririn: “Wo-would you let me do that?...haha…It-it doesn’t look like things are at a level where I’d be very useful…”

So basically they didn't think Krillin wouldn't be able to handle himself prior to Dabura's introduction. Even then it seems like Goku and perhaps Krillin were overrating Dabura due to him being the ruler of the demon realm because Goku and co laugh off Dabura after they see his initial movement.

Kaioshin was the one who could defeat Freeza in a single blow, they had no idea of what Babidi's henchmen would be like. The moment Kaioshin confirmed it included someone even himself would not be able to handle, Kuririn tought of going back.

But he said that he didn't think he would be able to handle them thus leading to the conclusion that the henchmen should be above Freeza's level.
Kaioshin didn't just admit inferiority to Dabura. He was implying that Dabura was an absolute monster even by the Saiyan's standards and thus Goku starts doubting the possibility of an easy ride for Krillin (“Kuririn, you’d better go back. Things seem a lot more dangerous than we thought”). They already expected the henchmen to be above Freeza at least.

Anyway the point is AT all but states that Freeza wasn't worth anything to the Saiyans and maybe even Krillin/Tenshinhan.


@Yamcha vs Goku(various)

Yamcha would wipe the floor with Goku at the 23rd Budokai imo. I doubt God would even praise someone much weaker than Piccolo Daimao imo.


@SSjin Gogeta vs Gotenks-Boo

It's worth noting that Goku basically eliminates the possibility of his fusion with Gohan fighting Gotenks-Boo in base while Elder Kaioshin says his base form would probably thrash him and this is after he finds out Potara>Fusion dance.
I follow SSjin (fusion dance)~base (Potara) out of convenience so imo Gogeta wins if rival boost is present in the fusion dance but loses if it's not.