Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Mystic Tien]

How did ROF expand the universe?

We now know that Freeza's organization didn't fall apart instantly when Freeza's dead. We learn that Freeza is a genius. Whis has time powers. There are other strong people in the universe such as the red bull guy.

We learned it in OVA Yo Son Goku and His Friends. It was actually pretty obvious. Not much of expansion. Guldo had time powers as well. We know it for a long time now.

[batistabus]

Freeza or Whis having development is not expanding universe.

Nor is the Planet Trade since we already knew it existed.

The Red Bull isnt strong. Piccolo was holding back.

How? It gives us more insight into the potential of Freeza's race, and it just shows how crazy of a force Whis is.

We didn't know it was still held together. We knew that Abo and Cado were remnants, but as far as we knew, they could've just not gotten the memo and had been doing things on their own. When I saw the Jump Special, I didn't assume the whole thing was still functioning.

Even if Piccolo could have defeated Shisame, that doesn't mean he isn't much stronger than we would've expected.

Also, all of this is compared to what we learned about with Freeza being killed in Movie 12, which was that Freeza didn't train in hell. If we're going by manga rules, it's because he couldn't. If we're going by filler rules, it's because he didn't. Take your pick.

[rereboy]

It showed NO improvement on Freeza's part, showed nothing about the universe, and didn't have anything in terms of interesting character interactions. Gohan was able to one-shot Freeza...we all knew he could do that. He had absolutely no chance. In RoF, Freeza actually had a legitimate chance of beating the Saiyans if he had been less arrogant, but he blew it.

So... what was different was the excuse for him to not be one-shotted and thus he remained on-screen longer. And that's pretty much it.

Expansion of the universe doesn't require Freeza to come back in that fashion, nor do interesting character interactions. In fact, the most interesting interactions and developments in the movie seem to be regarding Whis and Beerus and the training of Goku and Vegeta, not really regarding Freeza. We also didn't learn much that he didn't already know regarding the remaining Freeza's forces and that stuff could be introduced in a hundred other ways, like with Jaco, for example.

[fexus]

Freeza or Whis having development is not expanding universe.

Nor is the Planet Trade since we already knew it existed.

The Red Bull isnt strong. Piccolo was holding back.

How? It gives us more insight into the potential of Freeza's race, and it just shows how crazy of a force Whis is.

We didn't know it was still held together. We knew that Abo and Cado were remnants, but as far as we knew, they could've just not gotten the memo and had been doing things on their own. When I saw the Jump Special, I didn't assume the whole thing was still functioning.

Even if Piccolo could have defeated Shisame, that doesn't mean he isn't much stronger than we would've expected.

Also, all of this is compared to what we learned about with Freeza being killed in Movie 12, which was that Freeza didn't train in hell. If we're going by manga rules, it's because he couldn't. If we're going by filler rules, it's because he didn't. Take your pick.

Exactly what I was going to say.

[Lord Beerus]

How did ROF expand the universe?

We now know that Freeza's organization didn't fall apart instantly when Freeza's dead. We learn that Freeza is a genius. Whis has time powers. There are other strong people in the universe such as the red bull guy.

We learned it in OVA Yo Son Goku and His Friends. It was actually pretty obvious. Not much of expansion. Guldo had time powers as well. We know it for a long time now.

The only thing we learned from Yo Son Goku and His Friends was that Freeza had extra strong soldiers in his army. That's it.

[TheGmGoken]

Freeza or Whis having development is not expanding universe.

Nor is the Planet Trade since we already knew it existed.

The Red Bull isnt strong. Piccolo was holding back.

How? It gives us more insight into the potential of Freeza's race, and it just shows how crazy of a force Whis is.

We didn't know it was still held together. We knew that Abo and Cado were remnants, but as far as we knew, they could've just not gotten the memo and had been doing things on their own. When I saw the Jump Special, I didn't assume the whole thing was still functioning.

Even if Piccolo could have defeated Shisame, that doesn't mean he isn't much stronger than we would've expected.

Also, all of this is compared to what we learned about with Freeza being killed in Movie 12, which was that Freeza didn't train in hell. If we're going by manga rules, it's because he couldn't. If we're going by filler rules, it's because he didn't. Take your pick.

Toriyama said only King Cold and Freeza are mutants in their race. I doubt their race even exist or strong enough to compare to Roshi.

I easily assume the PTO was functional. Don't know why anyone was shocked that it was.

Movie 12 act as if the villains didn't have bodies. Hence why Vegeta disappear at the end. In movie 12 we actually learnt about the other world and what happens to the Souls.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Don't get me wrong, that "dumb" aspect is indeed part of its charm and it is a positive thing/point, I agree.

But there is the negative point of the same word and they are:

- Leave out Son Goten, Trunks, Majin Buu, Mark and Yamcha for the sake of nothing, under the most idiotic reason.

Actually, they all something in common. They are gag characters, none of them are ever serious, and I guess Toriyama wanted Freeza 's return to be taken seriously and maybe even capture the tone of the Season 3.

All of them were pretty serious at least once, so no, just no. And Majin Buu was a villain of the last arc moreover.

Well there you go at least once not all the time, and are they still serious characters now though? Nope.

[Mystic Tien]

The only thing we learned from Yo Son Goku and His Friends was that Freeza had extra strong soldiers in his army. That's it.

We learned, that there were remnants of Frieza's army somewhere in the universe, moreover they were strong. This is the same thing we learned in FnF. Nothing new.

to show that Freeza can't learn his lesson and always lets his arrogance get in the way even after being brought to the brink of death then sent to hell

Yeah, Vegeta. We already saw it before. Nothing new here.

[Chuquita]

At least with Kendamu and others seeing it with subs on the 11th we'll get a picture of what the dialogue is like, since dialogue is supposed to be one of the movie's strong points.

[batistabus]

It showed NO improvement on Freeza's part, showed nothing about the universe, and didn't have anything in terms of interesting character interactions. Gohan was able to one-shot Freeza...we all knew he could do that. He had absolutely no chance. In RoF, Freeza actually had a legitimate chance of beating the Saiyans if he had been less arrogant, but he blew it.

So... what was different was the excuse for him to not be one-shotted and thus he remained on-screen longer. And that's pretty much it.

Expansion of the universe doesn't require Freeza to come back in that fashion, nor do interesting character interactions. In fact, the most interesting interactions and developments in the movie seem to be regarding Whis and Beerus and the training of Goku and Vegeta, not really regarding Freeza. We also didn't learn much that he didn't already know regarding the remaining Freeza's forces and that stuff could be introduced in a hundred other ways, like with Jaco, for example.

I like Freeza, and even if his arrival is ultimately inconsequential, that doesn't mean that it's a waste of the audience's time.

Yes, I agree that Whis training Goku and Vegeta is very interesting, and the fight against Freeza was part of that training. The bit about Freeza's forces could've been introduced in other ways...okay. I think it was fine being introduced like this. Why wouldn't they try to revive him if they knew about the Dragon Balls? We get it, everyone is disappointed that we didn't hear more about the 12 universes.

[Blade]

Like you assumed that everyone who prefer Z didn't like Dragonball BoG.

No I didn't, and I don't. Such a broad statement without any consideration for the complexity of individual preferences does not represent my opinion on the matter at all, and being someone who's quite an authority on his own opinions, can only assume you've read my post and came away with a very strong but exaggerated impression of what I was trying to get across.

[batistabus]

Toriyama said only King Cold and Freeza are mutants in their race. I doubt their race even exist or strong enough to compare to Roshi.

I easily assume the PTO was functional. Don't know why anyone was shocked that it was.

Movie 12 act as if the villains didn't have bodies. Hence why Vegeta disappear at the end. In movie 12 we actually learnt about the other world and what happens to the Souls.

Okay, it still tells us more about his biology. We knew they could create forms that would limit their power, but we've never seen anything form Toriyama that suggested they could use it to increase their power.

You assumed. I wasn't SHOCKED that it was, but it was cool to see the way that it was functioning. (Also, please don't use Dragon Ball wiki terms...)

I'm not saying I dislike Movie 12 and that it didn't have a lot of interesting elements. We're talking about Freeza.

[Lord Beerus]

The only thing we learned from Yo Son Goku and His Friends was that Freeza had extra strong soldiers in his army. That's it.

We learned, that there were remnants of Freeza's army somewhere in the universe, moreover they were strong. This is the same thing we learned in FnF. Nothing new.

No. In Resurrection F, the PTO was in shambles following Freeza's death. With no real stable leadership, that Freeza was providing before his death, the PTO was losing multiple planets following them revolting and as a result were countless losing soldiers. Realizing that the PTO could cease to exist if things didn't change, Sorbet came to conclusion that they had to revive Freeza, just so that some real leadership could be brought back. And the plot of Resurrection F was born.

[Mystic Tien]

Well there you go at least once not all the time, and are they still serious characters now though? Nope.

At least doesn't mean being always not serious) Yamcha was serious a lot in original Dragon Ball, Trunks was serious in Movie 13, in Movie 11 (partially) and when his dad was fighting with Buu. Goten was serious when Chi-Chi died and partially in a movie 13. Mr. Satan was very serious when Bee was shot, when Buu was fighting with Buu.

What about characters who are not always serious - Goku is one, Roshi is another, Krillin is third, yet all of them are in this movie.

[Chuquita]

I don't know if the dialogue could make up for no plot expansions on the twelve universes for me, but I do think it could make the movie enjoyable as a stand alone.

Who knows, maybe this is just the training arc, and we get another movie with an adventure in it.

[Mystic Tien]

The only thing we learned from Yo Son Goku and His Friends was that Freeza had extra strong soldiers in his army. That's it.

We learned, that there were remnants of Freeza's army somewhere in the universe, moreover they were strong. This is the same thing we learned in FnF. Nothing new.

No. In Resurrection F, the PTO was in shambles following Freeza's death. With no real stable leadership, that Freeza was providing before his death, the PTO was losing multiple planets following them revolting and as a result were countless losing soldiers. Realizing that the PTO could cease to exist if things didn't change, Sorbet came to conclusion that they had to revive Freeza, just so that some real leadership could be brought back. And the plot of Resurrection F was born.

I don't remember any of this being mentioned, all that was mentioned in the movie synopsis was that just before Sorbet and Tagoma flied to Earth, they were attacked by some rebels. What happened with Frieza army before it, was it ever functioning, or was it disbanded, was Sorbet the one who joined the forces, were they even joined at all, or these were guys who were always under his command, this one we don't know.

[Dyno]

How did ROF expand the universe?

It didn't. As already mentioned earlier, it was another Toei's movie, unfortunately.

[rereboy]

I like Freeza, and even if his arrival is ultimately inconsequential, that doesn't mean that it's a waste of the audience's time.

Yes, I agree that Whis training Goku and Vegeta is very interesting, and the fight against Freeza was part of that training. The bit about Freeza's forces could've been introduced in other ways...okay. I think it was fine being introduced like this. Why wouldn't they try to revive him if they knew about the Dragon Balls? We get it, everyone is disappointed that we didn't hear more about the 12 universes.

Maybe not to you because having more Freeza is enough for you but at the end of the day it might be a waste of time for a lot of people. But my point wasn't that, my point was just to stress how Rocketman's post had a very valid point regarding Movie 12 and this new movie.

And there's various reasons for why they wouldn't try to revive him, actually. Freeza was a tyrant who killed his own men many times, and they obviously don't want that. They just needed someone very strong at the helm of the empire so that the empire was strong and unchallenged again and getting back Freeza was what they come up with... So, why not focus on making some of their soldiers very strong instead of getting Freeza back? Apparently they managed to have a soldier who could rival Piccolo, so, as long as they left Earth alone they could rule the universe just like in Freeza's day. They even suggested to Freeza to leave the Earthlings be, so they obviously weren't interested in getting revenge on Earth.

[Lord Beerus]

I don't remember any of this being mentioned, all that was mentioned in the movie synopsis was that just before Sorbet and Tagoma flied to Earth, they were attacked by some rebels. What happened with Freeza army before it, was it ever functioning, or was it disbanded, was Sorbet the one who joined the forces, were they even joined at all, or these were guys who were always under his command, this one we don't know.

It was mentioned in the Resurrection F manga.

How did ROF expand the universe?

It didn't. As already mentioned earlier, it was another Toei's movie, unfortunately.

Obviously, if a Dragon Ball movie doesn't expand on the universe it can a bit of shame. But that shouldn't be the be-all and end-all criteria for whether a Dragon Ball movie can be enjoyable and worth our time.

[TheGmGoken]

Toriyama said only King Cold and Freeza are mutants in their race. I doubt their race even exist or strong enough to compare to Roshi.

I easily assume the PTO was functional. Don't know why anyone was shocked that it was.

Movie 12 act as if the villains didn't have bodies. Hence why Vegeta disappear at the end. In movie 12 we actually learnt about the other world and what happens to the Souls.

Okay, it still tells us more about his biology. We knew they could create forms that would limit their power, but we've never seen anything form Toriyama that suggested they could use it to increase their power.

You assumed. I wasn't SHOCKED that it was, but it was cool to see the way that it was functioning. (Also, please don't use Dragon Ball wiki terms...)

I'm not saying I dislike Movie 12 and that it didn't have a lot of interesting elements. We're talking about Freeza.

It's DBZ dude. Anyone can transform. Tells us nothing about his biology at all. Never have transformation been that deep or complex. It's they train and transform basically. Only time it's biological was Oozaru that's it. No one going watch this movie and say "Wow such a biology lesson we learn about Freeza! He can transform! Science".

Who the hell used DB wiki terms? PTO? The mutant term? I got that from a Toriyama interview on this very website.