"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Neon Z]

That was never confirmed that Toriyama wanted to step down. We literally only have one source that said that.

Kei17 is reliable, his word is enough.

Kei17 is a long time member, giving information direct from Japan, but last time I searched through this forums' history, I couldn't find any other examples of Kei17 leaking behind the scenes information like that. Toriyama also started working on the Trunks arc around last October, and yet Kei17 only posted that after the arc had been officially unveiled. I think being a long time reliable forum member doesn't necessarily mean having reliable inside sources, especially one that would need to be very close to Toriyama himself...

[kinisking]

Is not gonna happen as said before Super has no guts for something like that

Yup... just Super. It's not like everyone from Z stayed alive or anything.

So? I don't get your point. Mine is that Super won't kill a main character just for the drama in the Arc, besides even if Mirai Trunks is killed they can always revive him with the Dragon Balls, so no tension at all, it would be nice if deceased characters stayed dead.

My point is that it isn't a "Super" exclusive problem. Z had it too.

[HeroR]

That was never confirmed that Toriyama wanted to step down. We literally only have one source that said that.

Kei17 is reliable, his word is enough.

Still not confirmed and you shouldn't past hearsay as fact.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I thought Kei said Toriyama was upset about something but nothing about wanting to leave?

I can't tell you the source because it's insider information, but he surely got turned off and reluctant to keep being involved with Super, so they had to provide him with some basic ideas for the plot of the new Goku Black arc.

Hmm pretty interesting then. Hopefully Toriyama is pleased with Toei's efforts in this arc as we are.

[alakazam^]

Still not confirmed and you shouldn't past hearsay as fact.

Kei17 saying so makes it confirmed, as far as I'm concerned.

[HeroR]

Still not confirmed and you shouldn't past hearsay as fact.

Kei17 saying so makes it confirmed, as far as I'm concerned.

Still hearsay and not confirmed fact.

[JulieYBM]

Kei has a history of being on the nose. It's trustworthy information, especially considering just how chaotic and last minute the series has been.

[Ajay]

Still hearsay and not confirmed fact.

While skepticism is always encouraged, and while I can't actually tell you how he acquired this information per his request, I can at least add to the claims of his credibility.

[Bansho64]

Still hearsay and not confirmed fact.

He's still a very reliable source. He's told this site multiple times about releases of all kinds of DB material and he's provided all sorts of broadcast audio and special material. He's been right before and he hasn't given us a reason to doubt now. He wouldn't just lie for the sake of lying. I'll stake my own word that he's telling the truth. He's given no reason for you to doubt him and all the more reason to believe. Believe what you want but his credibility isn't a damaged one.

[ArchedThunder]

I think people took Kei's comment too far. Saying he got turned off doesn't mean he was enraged to the point of quitting, Kei just said he was reluctant to continue, and this would have had to have happened during the BoG arc or in between Bog and F because of when Toriyama started writing the current arc. Through this year it certainly doesn't seem like Toriyama has any intention of leaving the series, especially after his comment in the Super Guide Book. For all we know he might have just not liked the changes they were making to the BoG script and that's it. He could have been like "I'm not really liking what you did to Battle of Gods, I don't know if I want to keep going." and Toei could have said they were sorry and would follow his Champa arc outline closer and sweetened the deal by giving him a starting point for the next arc.

[Sodhi]

Toriyama did say he was not pleased with the quality of the series, but on the same sentence he said he can't leave dragon ball alone if I remember correctly.It was obviosuly for very early episodes, probably #5. Also kei17 has been longer in this community than many new people here including me. His information has always been reliable, good example would be the movies. He was the first one to leak or give information to everyone here, before anyone knew about it.

[HeroR]

Still hearsay and not confirmed fact.

While skepticism is always encouraged, and while I can't actually tell you how he acquired this information per his request, I can at least add to the claims of his credibility.

I am sure they are credit to an extent, but it is still hearsay and shouldn't be presented as fact. That is all I am saying. Whether you chose to believe it or not is up to the individual.

He's still a very reliable source. He's told this site multiple times about releases of all kinds of DB material and he's provided all sorts of broadcast audio and special material. He's been right before and he hasn't given us a reason to doubt now. He wouldn't just lie for the sake of lying. I'll stake my own word that he's telling the truth. He's given no reason for you to doubt him and all the more reason to believe. Believe what you want but his credibility isn't a damaged one.

As someone who has been online for a long time, one thing I have learned that someone being reliable one moment, doesn't mean they are reliable all the time. I know several people who were reliable when it came to game leaks and information for certain games and developers, but they some times give wrong or misinformed information for one reason or another. Which is why I am never trusting of someone saying, 'my source told me'.

[ArchedThunder]

As someone who has been online for a long time, one thing I have learned that someone being reliable one moment, doesn't mean they are reliable all the time. I know several people who were reliable when it came to game leaks and information for certain games and developers, but they some times give wrong or misinformed information for one reason or another. Which is why I am never trusting of someone says, 'my source told me'.

Yeah, GAF has taught many people the lesson that just because someone is almost aways right, doesn't mean you should immediately take everything they say as fact.

[HeroR]

I think people took Kei's comment too far. Saying he got turned off doesn't mean he was enraged to the point of quitting, Kei just said he was reluctant to continue, and this would have had to have happened during the BoG arc or in between Bog and F because of when Toriyama started writing the current arc. Through this year it certainly doesn't seem like Toriyama has any intention of leaving the series, especially after his comment in the Super Guide Book. For all we know he might have just not liked the changes they were making to the BoG script and that's it. He could have been like "I'm not really liking what you did to Battle of Gods, I don't know if I want to keep going." and Toei could have said they were sorry and would follow his Champa arc outline closer and sweetened the deal by giving him a starting point for the next arc.

Pretty much. We know that Toriyama wasn't that happy with Super, he put it into a guidebook. The problem here is that people are acting like they he was ready to walk off the set when the series didn't even reached the material he wrote for the Champa Saga since he began writing the Future Trunks Saga back in October. So Kei isn't telling us anything new. In some parts of their statement sounds like opinion since they put 'surely' as if they figured Toriyama was ready to leave because he was upset.

But, as I said, you can believe as you want. But hearsay should never be stated as a fact.

[dbzfan7]

Still hearsay and not confirmed fact.

While skepticism is always encouraged, and while I can't actually tell you how he acquired this information per his request, I can at least add to the claims of his credibility.

Apparently you know more about it than we do. Even more reason I trust his word. He's not one to bullshit. Though I feel kind of weird being a part of a conversation about a users info, without the user in question saying anything. Feels like dirty gossip kinda.

[Neon Z]

Toriyama did say he was not pleased with the quality of the series, but on the same sentence he said he can't leave dragon ball alone if I remember correctly.It was obviosuly for very early episodes, probably #5. Also kei17 has been longer in this community than many new people here including me. His information has always been reliable, good example would be the movies. He was the first one to leak or give information to everyone here, before anyone knew about it.

That's kind of different though. Watching early screenings and posting a summary (or giving information about staff listings and such, which are generally publicly available) isn't nearly the same as giving information about Toriyama's and Toei's internal affairs and relationship. If it had been posted before the actual announcement of Trunks' arc (or mentioned how it happened back around September/October), then it'd be a different matter, but I still think it's a big leap at this point.

[Marlowe89]

No, I just say "we don't know". We don't know if the Super Saiyan God reappearance is Toyotaro's or Toriyama's idea. We can't know based on what we know.

We don't know if SSB + Kaioken was Toei's idea or Toriyama's idea either.

You seem to be pushing the false equivalency that SSG's reappearance somehow has a greater likelihood of being from Toriyama than SSB + Kaioken when that's actually not the case at all. The only things we can confidently say come from Toriyama's script outlines are the commonalities between the manga and the anime.

[Chuquita]

I am curious about the "ssjg in the manga, but ssjblue + kaioken in the anime" thing, but I don't think we'll ever get an answer on it. All I can theorize about it is either:
A) Toyotarou likes ssjg and wanted to use it some more.
OR
B) There was a communication error in regards to the anime and "the red form" since both ssjg and kaio-ken have red auras.

[Nejishiki]

I've joked about the "red form" miscommunication before, but I imagine it being more vague or details being mixed with no regard for the order. I'm of the opinion that if it were that simple, the anime would stop at just Kaioken. They didn't, seeing as Goku pushed it to Kaioken x10. Maybe that's the culprit? The manga applied the 10x detail to Vegeta while the anime to Goku. There's no real way to know but it's interesting how liberal Toriyama wants others to be with his draft.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No, I just say "we don't know". We don't know if the Super Saiyan God reappearance is Toyotaro's or Toriyama's idea. We can't know based on what we know.

We don't know if SSB + Kaioken was Toei's idea or Toriyama's idea either.

You seem to be pushing the false equivalency that SSG's reappearance somehow has a greater likelihood of being from Toriyama than SSB + Kaioken when that's actually not the case at all. The only things we can confidently say come from Toriyama's script outlines are the commonalities between the manga and the anime.

From what we are told, everything from Toriyama's outline makes it to the manga, with no changes but only expansions & additions, while Toei makes changes as well. So, if Kaio-ken was in the outline, it would have been in the manga as well.