English Dragon Box Release

[Raki]

Is this because you like it, or, more than likely, because it has been the dub most of the populace associates with Dragon Ball Z?

I do happen to like it. But yeah, because it's been the dub that most of the dub fans like. They'd be a bigger target than the people who like Eng VA's/Original music.

Are there people who like the English VAs with Japanese music?

[JulieYBM]

Is this because you like it, or, more than likely, because it has been the dub most of the populace associates with Dragon Ball Z?

I do happen to like it. But yeah, because it's been the dub that most of the dub fans like. They'd be a bigger target than the people who like Eng VA's/Original music.

Are there people who like the English VAs with Japanese music?

I know I do when I feel like watching the series in English.

Code: Select all

[Raki]

I do happen to like it. But yeah, because it's been the dub that most of the dub fans like. They'd be a bigger target than the people who like Eng VA's/Original music.

Are there people who like the English VAs with Japanese music?

I know I do when I feel like watching the series in English.

Code: Select all

Better than me. I gave up on that option completely when I started with the Japanese version.

[El Diabeetus]

Is this because you like it, or, more than likely, because it has been the dub most of the populace associates with Dragon Ball Z?

I do happen to like it. But yeah, because it's been the dub that most of the dub fans like. They'd be a bigger target than the people who like Eng VA's/Original music.

Are there people who like the English VAs with Japanese music?

Yes. I'm probably one of the few who do.

I grew up watching it on Toonami like most from the days of the Ocean Dub all the way to the final Dragon Ball airing on Toonami. Not only that, but I also collected some of the singles. While watching the singles, the first time I switched the audio. I thought "Huh, woah! Goku has a cool voice, way different but awesome." This was me at 10 years old watching the Freeza episodes where Goku transforms to SSJ for the first time. At first I didn't care about what the voices actually sounded like in Japanese, I was in love with the Soundtrack, it was 1000x different than what the Dub BGM was. So, while watching the Japanese voices they grew on me.

It's 6 years since, and my opinion still hasn't changed. I care about voices now, but the only Dub voice I can't stand is Freeza. Well, if you include the Ocean Dub; Terry Klassen's Kuririn, I was never a fan of it. I guess I just don't like his voice at all.

Since I don't mind the FUNi Dub voices, I've been watching the FUNi Dub w/ Original Japanese BGM on the 2 Season Sets I have; 3 and 6. I still watch the Japanese score, but it's nice to be able to watch a Dub that's nostalgia to me, with the music I love.

So, I could care less whether Falcouner stays or goes and I enjoy his BGM, not so much Freeza and Cell, but I like his Buu arc compositions. The only pre-Buu I think I like is Ginyu Transformation.

So, yeah. I'd say that track is aimed at me, the "Doesn't care either way person, whose been a fan for about 7-8 years".

I know its about Z, but with GT, my only problem with its Dub was the music and thanks to the 2 Season Sets, that problem has been done away with. So, to me GT has the best English Dub of the 3 series. For the most part its accurate, but there are cases where they add lines. But, they're no where near as bad as Z line re-write bad. Just like Z, whenever I feel like watching the Japanese version; I will.

With Z, I have Ocean Dub movies 1-2; uncut with the original music on VHS. Some Buu saga episodes on VHS, mainly Vegetto episodes. Finally, Season 3 and 6 of the Season Sets.

With GT I collected singles 1-5, and 11-15. So, I own multiple copies of GT. I also have GT 1, 2 and I think 3 on VHS too.

[B]

If Funi wants to sell this to dub fans as well, and they can only use one dub track, it makes sense for them to use the broadcast version.

Except that these sets aren't marketed toward the dub fans in the same way that other releases were. Do they want to appeal to dub fans? Sure, that's why they put the dub on there . . . and I wouldn't be surprised if that's all they feel inclined to do. They don't need to have two dub tracks simply for the sake of including Faulconer's score, because they already did that with a different release that was marketed toward the majority fanbase.

If it's a quality product with a fair price point (and sometimes even when it isn't), the average dub fan will buy DBZ for the sake of DBZ so long as a dub is included.


~Da Lemmy

Um...I'm not arguing otherwise.

I never said they should have two dubs. All I'm saying is...Ok, who liked the broadcast version of Dragonball Z? A lot of people. Who liked the Eng VA/Original music version? Some people, probably. So if this release is targeted at sub fans, and if Funi want to get a few dub fans in on it as well (which they must do since there is at least a dub track), then the obvious dub track to add would be the broadcast version. Adding the Eng VA/Original music version takes the risk of pushing dub fans away (and it's not like most sub fans care for it), the broadcast version doesn't take that risk.

You're either not getting something or choosing not to address it, for whatever reason. "Casual fans" and "dub fans" are two separate entities. "Dub fans" who want this or that or some of those will be picky and want something tailored to them, just as fans of the Japanese version would. "Casual fans" more often than not only watch the dub because, as the word "casual" implies, they don't really care another version exists; the dub has been the default setting on the DVDs for years and they don't even entertain the thought as to why that is or if something else even could be the default. They're into DBZ because of some cool fight scenes. The things that are commonplace discussion on internet hubs such as DaizEX, like voice actors or production notes or the ramifications Toriyama doing X or Y with the series as it went on, or even music, just isn't on their radar.

Dub fans bought the Season Sets and will, most likely, continue to do so. If it feels like that subgroup of the fanbase is being alienated in relation to the DRAGON BOX, well, you kind of are. I'm not saying that's a "good" thing, but that's what's happening. There's still plenty of people out there who think of Dragon Ball as nothing more than a show, and that's more than enough of a market for the DBOXes to sell.

Casual fan: What is this Dragon Box stuff?
Informed person: It's the best looking Dragon Ball release that exists today.
Casual fan: I heard somewhere that the Japanese voices are going to be the default settings when I pop the DVD in. Will the English voices I heard on TV be on there?
Informed person: Yes, they will
Casual fan: Cool beans! And the video quality is that good?
Informed person: The best.

And that would be the end of that conversation. No questions on music, replacement voice roles, bit rates, etc.

[Gogeta 00]

Sigh, I can't decide whether to be happy as hell, or mad as fuck. I'm amazingly glad that we're getting english Dragon Boxes, but I'm mad because I already spent $300 on the faux-remastered sets. I have to buy the english Dragon Boxes, but what the hell am I going to do with my season sets? I could try to sell them to a casual fan, but If I can't, I'm stuck with them. And, I also have to wait another 3 years for the entire series to be released. Plus with these sets coming in at $80.00 a piece, I'm going to need to get a jod in order to have the money to purchase them all. But I know that I can at least look forward to that magic moment where I tear open the shrink wrap and place the first disc in the player, ah what an event it will be.

[Hao_Kaiser]

Dub fans bought the Season Sets and will, most likely, continue to do so. If it feels like that subgroup of the fanbase is being alienated in relation to the DRAGON BOX, well, you kind of are. I'm not saying that's a "good" thing, but that's what's happening. There's still plenty of people out there who think of Dragon Ball as nothing more than a show, and that's more than enough of a market for the DBOXes to sell.

*SNIP*

And that would be the end of that conversation. No questions on music, replacement voice roles, bit rates, etc.

But... Why wouldn't these "casual" fans have bought the orange bricks already? And if they had, why would they even consider buying a second release at a higher price point? And if they hadn't, why wouldn't they just opt for the cheaper release?

I guess what I'm trying to say is... Why the hell would a "casual" fan care about video quality, especially when it would cost them that much more? If it's just a show that they watched on TV that they want to watch again for nostalgia, why would the quality of the release even concern them?

I can honestly see what you're saying about a "casual" fan not caring about the included BGM, but at the same time, you can't expect them to care about how the picture looks either, especially when the difference that they more than likely won't notice is going to cost them around $30 more a set.

[jjgp1112]

That's what I'm starting to think too.

But what FUNi still needs to realize is that some dub fans are also hardcore fans.

And I highly doubt most of you guys pushing for the omission of the Faulconer dub even watch the dub in the first place. It'll be the same inaccurate dub - but with music you're more familiar with. So why does it matter to you, when you won't even watch it anyway.

And before you guys bring up the shit about the Ocean dub (*cough*Snaku*cough*) there's actually good reason to believe that Funi should include the Faulconer music, so don't let your own personal opinion prevent people with differing opinions not enjoy what they like.

[B]

Dub fans bought the Season Sets and will, most likely, continue to do so. If it feels like that subgroup of the fanbase is being alienated in relation to the DRAGON BOX, well, you kind of are. I'm not saying that's a "good" thing, but that's what's happening. There's still plenty of people out there who think of Dragon Ball as nothing more than a show, and that's more than enough of a market for the DBOXes to sell.

*SNIP*

And that would be the end of that conversation. No questions on music, replacement voice roles, bit rates, etc.

But... Why wouldn't these "casual" fans have bought the orange bricks already? And if they had, why would they even consider buying a second release at a higher price point? And if they hadn't, why wouldn't they just opt for the cheaper release?

I guess what I'm trying to say is... Why the hell would a "casual" fan care about video quality, especially when it would cost them that much more? If it's just a show that they watched on TV that they want to watch again for nostalgia, why would the quality of the release even concern them?

I can honestly see what you're saying about a "casual" fan not caring about the included BGM, but at the same time, you can't expect them to care about how the picture looks either, especially when the difference that they more than likely won't notice is going to cost them around $30 more a set.

Those are completely valid points, I must admit, but I would figure if you liked something enough to buy it, even as a casual practitioner of said product, you'd want the closest to the best out there. I mean, you are spending your hard-earned money on it. It's not entirely out of the realm of possibilty for people unfamiliar with the series just now getting into it, getting the lowdown on these releases, and ending up with siding with the DBOX. Or, because of the points you made, being cheaper and having visual problems not all too noticeable, the orange bricks.

What I'm trying to get at is that including or excluding Faucloner's BGM isn't going to be a deciding factor in how well these do.

[Kid Trunks]

Except that these sets aren't marketed toward the dub fans in the same way that other releases were. Do they want to appeal to dub fans? Sure, that's why they put the dub on there . . . and I wouldn't be surprised if that's all they feel inclined to do. They don't need to have two dub tracks simply for the sake of including Faulconer's score, because they already did that with a different release that was marketed toward the majority fanbase.

If it's a quality product with a fair price point (and sometimes even when it isn't), the average dub fan will buy DBZ for the sake of DBZ so long as a dub is included.


~Da Lemmy

Um...I'm not arguing otherwise.

I never said they should have two dubs. All I'm saying is...Ok, who liked the broadcast version of Dragonball Z? A lot of people. Who liked the Eng VA/Original music version? Some people, probably. So if this release is targeted at sub fans, and if Funi want to get a few dub fans in on it as well (which they must do since there is at least a dub track), then the obvious dub track to add would be the broadcast version. Adding the Eng VA/Original music version takes the risk of pushing dub fans away (and it's not like most sub fans care for it), the broadcast version doesn't take that risk.

You're either not getting something or choosing not to address it, for whatever reason. "Casual fans" and "dub fans" are two separate entities. "Dub fans" who want this or that or some of those will be picky and want something tailored to them, just as fans of the Japanese version would. "Casual fans" more often than not only watch the dub because, as the word "casual" implies, they don't really care another version exists; the dub has been the default setting on the DVDs for years and they don't even entertain the thought as to why that is or if something else even could be the default. They're into DBZ because of some cool fight scenes. The things that are commonplace discussion on internet hubs such as DaizEX, like voice actors or production notes or the ramifications Toriyama doing X or Y with the series as it went on, or even music, just isn't on their radar.

Dub fans bought the Season Sets and will, most likely, continue to do so. If it feels like that subgroup of the fanbase is being alienated in relation to the DRAGON BOX, well, you kind of are. I'm not saying that's a "good" thing, but that's what's happening. There's still plenty of people out there who think of Dragon Ball as nothing more than a show, and that's more than enough of a market for the DBOXes to sell.

Geez. I don't know what your talking about. All I'm saying is that is that Eng VA/Original music track will snag the casual fans, the broadcast version will snag casual and dub fans .i.e. more people, meaning more money for Funi. It makes more sense to put that track on the Dragonbox if they're only putting one track on. I've been talking from Funi's point of view.

Bascially all I'm saying is:

I think Funi will sell more to dub fans if they put the broadcast version. That's all. I'm speaking from a neutral point of view. But the fact that you addressed me as a part of "the subgroup of the fanbase" suggests your reading something into my post that isn't there. I'm not claiming to be a part of any category of fan here.

And there's no need to hammer home to me the fact that this release is for sub fans. I don't really care if it is or if it isn't.

[B]

So, I'm not allowed to disagree with you? I think you're wrong, that the amount of product they would sell is drastic enough to put Faulconer's score on the sets and risk compression problems, and I addressed it calmly. Fuck, there's no need to get uppity about me "labeling" you.

[Hao_Kaiser]

Those are completely valid points, I must admit, but I would figure if you liked something enough to buy it, even as a casual practitioner of said product, you'd want the closest to the best out there. I mean, you are spending your hard-earned money on it. It's not entirely out of the realm of possibilty for people unfamiliar with the series just now getting into it, getting the lowdown on these releases, and ending up with siding with the DBOX. Or, because of the points you made, being cheaper and having visual problems not all too noticeable, the orange bricks.

What I'm trying to get at is that including or excluding Faucloner's BGM isn't going to be a deciding factor in how well these do

Haha, fair enough. I can see how a "casual" fan would consider spending more, if they did indeed know that a certain release had better quality. I hadn't thought about it that way. I guess some "casual" fans are more informed than others.

I mean, I bought the "Platinum: Perfect: Awkward Aluminum Tin" edition of Neon Genesis Evangelion without having ever seen a bit of the show, just because I knew that it was the best release available in the United States... Of course, I also got it for $40, so...

I was referencing more of the typical "college student who randomly happens to see a copy of season one at Wal-Mart" kind of fan when I was arguing those points. That said, I totally agree with you on your claim about how much influence the BGM will actually have to the "casual" audience.

[Kid Trunks]

So, I'm not allowed to disagree with you? I think you're wrong, that the amount of product they would sell is drastic enough to put Faulconer's score on the sets and risk compression problems and I addressed it calmly. Fuck, there's no need to get uppity about me "labeling" you.

When did I ever say that? I said that since there is a dub track, it would make more sense to use the broadcast version. I never said a dub was worth compression. Where are you getting that?

And I'm not getting uppity with you, I dunno how the heck you thought I was. I don't get uppity about text on a screen.

[SonEric84]

Let's not get out of hand now guys, we don't want to see this thread closed.

[RemiLeopold]

Am I the only one who's curious to see Japanese Dialogue with Faulconer score?

[Krakabeast]

Am I the only one who's curious to see Japanese Dialogue with Faulconer score?

Oh cruel God!

[Innagadadavida]

Leave it to Kei16.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEBH4Z8ePo0

Subscribe to his channel. He always uploads really interesting DBZ related videos.

[Smooth Criminal]

Why would a casual dub fan want the Dragon Box if Season One is readily available and cheaper?

I think you basically stumped yourself. Nobody who isn't a hardcore fan would give enough of a shit to compare the two releases side-by-side and and choose the DBOX.

EDUCATED hardcore dub fans are in the minority. Half of them don't even know what the Dragon Box is-- just go look on youtube.

I hate to be the asshole here, but this release is PRIMARILY aimed at fans who have been salivating for a US release of the JP Dragon Box for years and years. No one who really made a strong effort to try and convince FUNi to do this gives a shit about the US dub.

Yeah, it would be nice to make everyone happy, but you know what? Storage space on a DVD isn't unlimited. TOO BAD. You are in the minority if you have been starving for the DBox yet are in love with the Faulconer dub. Just feel happy that you're getting an English language version at all.... Because many of us TRUE fans could give a shit about any of it, Faulconer or otherwise. It just takes up disc space-- THAT'S ALL.

I want the JP voice track with the highest bit-rate possible, equivalent to the original DBOX. They said they didn't change anything.... That means English fans will have to STFU and DEAL with whatever disc space is left.

Though I'm sure the vast majority of dub fans are plenty happy with the season sets.

In short, I don't really see the issue. English Dub fans who have been following the original Dbox releases and have wanted it as much as us are in the small, small minority. That's just tough shit.

Sorry, I guess you now know what it has felt like to be a fan of the original for so many years and to be completely IGNORED by FUNi in many instances, as if we didn't exist. How many times did we have to bitch before they finally made the games bi-lingual? Even then there were still releases that screwed us over. Now that we are getting catered to, FINALLY, you dub fans have the nerve to rain on OUR parade?

[jjgp1112]

I can't believe you guys are stll taking that, "We didn't chage a damn thing line" literally. It can mean anything.

[Kendamu]

I can't believe you guys are stll taking that, "We didn't chage a damn thing line" literally. It can mean anything.

Not literally, but pretty close. We expect a lot out of a company that used very similar-to-Japanese packaging, made a trailer that was very similar to the Japanese trailer, and are defaulting to Japanese with subtitles on the discs themselves.