Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kamiccolo9]

I like it. I don't believe in multipliers for ki attacks anyway, so this doesn't contradict anything I've got
It also makes the gains everyone made in the year spent preparing for the Saiyans look a lot more reasonable. I've never liked the Earthlings getting 5-10 times stronger with what is, in the grand scheme of things, pretty normal training.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku only has a BP of to 924 when he unleashes the Kamehameha. Raditz makes note that they can increase their power levels through concentrated energy attacks. I don't think 924 is his combat maximum. Otherwise They wouldn't need special attacks for Raditz to be freaking out.

[Draken]

Wait... how can Goku be 55 yet strong enough to stalemate Roshi in the previous TB?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Wait... how can Goku be 55 yet strong enough to stalemate Roshi in the previous TB?

Suppression. 55 is a bit low for my taste though.

[Draken]

Wait... how can Goku be 55 yet strong enough to stalemate Roshi in the previous TB?

Suppression. 55 is a bit low for my taste though.

But Roshi was out to prove that Goku wasn't the best. Why would he suppress himself to such a low level and almost lose?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Wait... how can Goku be 55 yet strong enough to stalemate Roshi in the previous TB?

Suppression. 55 is a bit low for my taste though.

But Roshi was out to prove that Goku wasn't the best. Why would he suppress himself to such a low level and almost lose?

Fun I guess. Goku wouldn't be in the hundreds yet since Tao Pai Pai has a BP of 110 and he kicked Goku's ass.

[Kaboom]

I figure perhaps things were a little mismatched back then when it came down to the difference between physical strength and ki. Muten Roshi may have had a higher "power level," but could be held back somewhat by his elderly body. Goku, on the other hand, would be physically stronger, tougher, and faster than someone else at his power level thanks to being a Saiyan, which could help close that gap.

[Draken]

I figure perhaps things were a little mismatched back then when it came down to the difference between physical strength and ki. Muten Roshi may have had a higher "power level," but could be held back somewhat by his elderly body. Goku, on the other hand, would be physically stronger, tougher, and faster than someone else at his power level thanks to being a Saiyan, which could help close that gap.

But didn't Goku match Roshi's kamehameha with his own? Wouldn't that be an indicator of similar ki, and therefore battle, levels?

[RandomGuy96]

Either he was suppressed or Roshi was simply very weak early on.

Something I noticed: the statements about Super Vegetto being about equal to Baby Saga SS4 Goku match perfectly with the SEG implying that Vegetto is Goku x Vegeta.

Let me explain. As I've said a thousand times, I believe that SS4 is a x40,000 multiplier based on the Baby fight, where Super Baby 1 stomped SS3 Goku hard, then went to Super Baby 2, then Super Baby 3, then Golden Ape Baby, and then was only equal with SS4 Goku.

I base that mostly on the fight with Baby. Goku attacks Super Baby 1 in SS3 form and gets his ass kicked. This is his first form of three. I believe the GT Perfect Files compare his forms to SS forms... and why wouldn't they be? He's possessing Vegeta. Anyway, so in his equivalent of an SS form he kicks the crap out of Goku. That means he's over 400 times stronger than base Goku. Then he goes to his second form, then his third. Going by the multipliers that would put him over 3,200 Goku's base. Goku returns and transforms into a Golden Ape, making him x4,000 his base (SS3 x 10). Then he becomes a SS4 and lays the beat down on third form Baby. Then Baby transforms into a Golden Ape himself and is equal with SS4 Goku. If Baby was x500 stronger than base Goku in his first form, then everything else would fit together perfectly- he was strong enough to stomp Goku in that form. Yet his Golden Ape wasn't stomping SS4 Goku.

Another interesting tidbit is the infamous statement in the GT Perfect Files that Gohan never slacked off in his training. That basically says base Gohan in GT is at least as strong as Ultimate Gohan from Z.

Now here's where things get crazy. During the Baby Saga, base Goku effortlessly one-shots Baby Gohan just in base, even though Baby Gohan was a Super Saiyan. Ignoring any power up he may have gotten from being possessed, GT Super Saiyan Gohan would be Ultimate Gohan x 50. By my levels that'd by 160 billion x 50 = 8 trillion. Since base Goku thrashed him effortlessly, let's put him at 12 trillion.

Now, also using my levels for Goku and Vegeta, let's see how strong Vegetto would be if you take the SEG statement literally...

Vegetto- 100,000,000 x 100,000,000 = 10 quadrillion
-Base Vegetto x 50 = Super Vegetto: 500 quadrillion

Now, with my multiplier based on evidence from the Baby fight + the statements from the GT Perfect Files + Goku's feats against SS Baby Gohan, let's see how strong he is...

Goku- 12 trillion
-Base Goku x 40,000 = 480 quadrillion.

There you have it. Super Vegetto is "perhaps stronger than a Super Saiyan 4", that is, the only Super Saiyan 4 that existed at the time that statement was made, and is still Goku x Vegeta. Let me know if I made an error.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Vegetto doesn't have to be exact multiplication.

[RandomGuy96]

I know (I don't think it is), I'm just trying to shoot down anyone who says manga Vegetto > anime Vegetto because of that page. He can be Goku x Vegeta and still be trash to the high level GT guys.

I'm actually going to use Goku x Vegeta for Vegetto if I ever do a GT list. It's the only way I can make all of the Perfect File statements make sense.

[Draken]

I see an error. 100 million for Goku in GT is far too low.

We really have no idea how SSJ works and if it was even on top of ultimate. Maybe in this universe he doesn't have it since, well, writers are dumbasses.

[RandomGuy96]

Z Goku is 100 million. GT Goku in the Baby Saga is 12 trillion, as said above.

[Draken]

Z Goku is 100 million. GT Goku in the Baby Saga is 12 trillion, as said above.

Then the next error is that Kid Buu was not 12 trillion, since base GT Goku ~ Kid Buu ~ Rildo.

[TheMightyOzaru]

SSJ4 is also 4,000x base not 40,000x base.

[Kamiccolo9]

SSJ4 is also 4,000x base not 40,000x base.

SSJ4 doesn't have an official multiplier.

[TheMightyOzaru]

SSJ4 is also 4,000x base not 40,000x base.

SSJ4 doesn't have an official multiplier.

This is the generally accepted one. It also makes the most sense. SSJ4, like SSJ3, takes the Saiyan's potential out to it's limits, only this time the Oozaru is involved so it should be x10(Oozaru) x400(SSJ3) = 4,000x base.

[Kamiccolo9]

SSJ4 is also 4,000x base not 40,000x base.

SSJ4 doesn't have an official multiplier.

This is the generally accepted one. It also makes the most sense. SSJ4, like SSJ3, takes the Saiyan's potential out to it's limits, only this time the Oozaru is involved so it should be x10(Oozaru) x400(SSJ3) = 4,000x base.

We've had this discussion before. Fan opinions are not absolute fact just because they are popular.
It's possible that 10x400 would be the Golden Oozaru multiplier, and SSJ4 could be beyond that. Maybe SSJ4 doesn't have a multiplier. We don't know, since nothing has been said about it.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It has logic behind it and there isn't a reason to disregard it so far so I don't see why people wouldn't accept this multiplier.

[Kamiccolo9]

It has logic behind it and there isn't a reason to disregard it so far so I don't see why people wouldn't accept this multiplier.

RandomGuy96 explained where he got his x40,000 multiplier from. There's logic behind his choice too.

I base that mostly on the fight with Baby. Goku attacks Super Baby 1 in SS3 form and gets his ass kicked. This is his first form of three. I believe the GT Perfect Files compare his forms to SS forms... and why wouldn't they be? He's possessing Vegeta. Anyway, so in his equivalent of an SS form he kicks the crap out of Goku. That means he's over 400 times stronger than base Goku. Then he goes to his second form, then his third. Going by the multipliers that would put him over 3,200 Goku's base. Goku returns and transforms into a Golden Ape, making him x4,000 his base (SS3 x 10). Then he becomes a SS4 and lays the beat down on third form Baby. Then Baby transforms into a Golden Ape himself and is equal with SS4 Goku. If Baby was x500 stronger than base Goku in his first form, then everything else would fit together perfectly- he was strong enough to stomp Goku in that form. Yet his Golden Ape wasn't stomping SS4 Goku.

Makes sense to me.