The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[DanielSSJ]

Namek freeza is probably one of the smartest villains in the series.

Considering that this is Dragon Ball, that's not saying a lot.

See above.
Goku could've been a thousand times stronger than namek, and still fall to freeza, and that's not even including his golden form, which was way, way more powerful

I was referring to Cyborg Freeza here, not Res. F Freeza.

Trunks flat-out told him that he's not soft like goku and he's also a super saiyan like goku.
Freeza thought that super saiyan was done with a casual blast. So, Mecha freeza was wrong. If he could think that a casual blast was enough to deal with super saiyan, then why couldn't he think that he became stronger?

Mecha freeza thinks that he's so powerful that he destroyed super saiyan with a casual blast, that's what he thought of him becoming powerful. He thought that AT HIS CURRENT LEVEL, a casual blast from him was superior to super saiyan. So by freeza's statements, suppressed mecha freeza > SS goku > 100% freeza (namek)??

You're assuming that Freeza was completely calm and thinking rationally at the time. Besides, after the blast, Freeza and King Cold dismiss Trunks as being weak and saying that he was a warm up before the "real" Super Saiyan arrives. So they don't think Trunks is on the same level as Goku.

But if quantity is different, he would've not said it is "exactly the same ki". So, trunks is either equal to, or very, very close to namek goku. The gap (if any) isn't noticeable. Exactly same means that the quantity, the feeling, the type, the lack of evilness, all are same. Neither does gohan say that trunks was more powerful than goku on namek was.

Another thing is, gohan says that goku (pre death ~= Yadrat goku) was on an entirely different level above him. Trunks was "about" as strong as gohan.

I don't recal the word "exactly" cropping up in your original quote of the scene.
Also, Future Goku dies sometime between his return to Earth and the Android's emergence. That's potentially thee years to get stronger. Also, Trunks was described as being stronger than Gohan in the Trunks special chapter.

[apex_pretador]

I was referring to Cyborg Freeza here, not Res. F Freeza.

oh. he's an idiot. How will he even know that he has powered up? He was like at 0 ki since the last 1.5 yrs, and there isn't any scouter which can measure his power level (seeing how even his second form's power level wasn't precisely measured)

You're assuming that Freeza was completely calm and thinking rationally at the time. Besides, after the blast, Freeza and King Cold dismiss Trunks as being weak and saying that he was a warm up before the "real" Super Saiyan arrives. So they don't think Trunks is on the same level as Goku.

When do they say he's "a warm up before real super saiyan arrives?"

But if quantity is different, he would've not said it is "exactly the same ki". So, trunks is either equal to, or very, very close to namek goku. The gap (if any) isn't noticeable. Exactly same means that the quantity, the feeling, the type, the lack of evilness, all are same. Neither does gohan say that trunks was more powerful than goku on namek was.

Another thing is, gohan says that goku (pre death ~= Yadrat goku) was on an entirely different level above him. Trunks was "about" as strong as gohan.

I don't recal the word "exactly" cropping up in your original quote of the scene.
Also, Future Goku dies sometime between his return to Earth and the Android's emergence. That's potentially thee years to get stronger. Also, Trunks was described as being stronger than Gohan in the Trunks special chapter.[/quote]

Chapter: 334 (DBZ 140), P13.3-5
Context: after Trunks and Goku fight
Trunks: “As expected, the rumors were true. No, you’re even greater…This was the sword that cut even Freeza…”
Goku: “You weren’t serious, after all.”

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P9.4
Trunks: “Knowing your strength, Goku, I have a little hope.”


Yardat goku was much stronger than trunks thought.
When does it mentions that trunks was superior to gohan? He's compared to gohan before fighting androids, by bulma, that's it.

If SS gotenks was 8x weaker than buu, he wouldn't be able to do what he did. His performance is too good to be 8x weaker.

What performance ? Evil Boo was basically toying with him the entire time and was casually tanking all Gorenks threw at him.Only the kamikazee attack was able to hurt him.Not to mention SSj3 Gotenks was at least around the same league as Boo who is a 8x boost that his SSj form.

That was base gotenks.
Buu never tanked anything from super saiyan gotenks. He was stronger, but the situation was not hopeless. It was not like Piccolo vs (initial) final form freeza / base goku gap , or Base goku vs Butta gap and definitely not 1st form zarbon vs KaioKen goku (8x gap) type gap.

SGK attack hurt buu more than it did to gotenks - FACT. The headbutt also hurt buu a good bit. While I agree that buu wasn't 100% serious, the gap wasn't freaking 8 times. Not to mention that SS gotenks did better against buu that buu did against SS3 gotenks.

[Khin]

That was base gotenks.
Buu never tanked anything from super saiyan gotenks. He was stronger, but the situation was not hopeless. It was not like Piccolo vs (initial) final form freeza / base goku gap , or Base goku vs Butta gap and definitely not 1st form zarbon vs KaioKen goku (8x gap) type gap.

SGK attack hurt buu more than it did to gotenks - FACT. The headbutt also hurt buu a good bit. While I agree that buu wasn't 100% serious, the gap wasn't freaking 8 times. Not to mention that SS gotenks did better against buu that buu did against SS3 gotenks.

• First of all,SSj3 Gotenks was only slightly stronger than Evil Boo.And Super Saiyan 3 is an 8x boost from SSj.So unless you think SSj3 Gotenks can one shot Evil Boo or you don't follow the SEG's statement of it being an 8x boost to SSj.SSj Gotenks should at least be 8x weaker than Evil Boo.It's a very simple math.
• SSj Gotenk's donut attack or whatever it is called didn't even fazed Boo.And what's more is that SSj Gotenks wasn't able to create a hole in the ROSAT until he goes SSj3.
• The head butt scene was a gag scene.
• Super Kamikazee Ghost is a very deadly attack,it even worried Super Vegetto who is leagues above Gohan-Boo.

Super Saiyan Gotenks : 35
--- Super Saiyan 2 (Unseen) : 70
--- Super Saiyan 3 : 280

Evil Boo : 250

[apex_pretador]

That was base gotenks.
Buu never tanked anything from super saiyan gotenks. He was stronger, but the situation was not hopeless. It was not like Piccolo vs (initial) final form freeza / base goku gap , or Base goku vs Butta gap and definitely not 1st form zarbon vs KaioKen goku (8x gap) type gap.

SGK attack hurt buu more than it did to gotenks - FACT. The headbutt also hurt buu a good bit. While I agree that buu wasn't 100% serious, the gap wasn't freaking 8 times. Not to mention that SS gotenks did better against buu that buu did against SS3 gotenks.

• First of all,SSj3 Gotenks was only slightly stronger than Evil Boo.And Super Saiyan 3 is an 8x boost from SSj.So unless you think SSj3 Gotenks can one shot Evil Boo or you don't follow the SEG's statement of it being an 8x boost to SSj.SSj Gotenks should at least be 8x weaker than Evil Boo.It's a very simple math.
• SSj Gotenk's donut attack or whatever it is called didn't even fazed Boo.And what's more is that SSj Gotenks wasn't able to create a hole in the ROSAT until he goes SSj3.
• The head butt scene was a gag scene.
• Super Kamikazee Ghost is a very deadly attack,it even worried Super Vegetto who is leagues above Gohan-Boo.

Super Saiyan Gotenks : 35
--- Super Saiyan 2 (Unseen) : 70
--- Super Saiyan 3 : 280

Evil Boo : 250

ss gotenks was hit by ghosts & the damage done wasn't much

he got 4 successful hits on buu & nearly wiped him out.
Buu got 2 hits on SS3 gotenks & they didn't even faze him except pissing him off.


Although buu wasn't fully serious against SS gotenks, you can't deny the fact that gotenks did well.
On creating the hole, I'm not saying that they ate equals, buu is stronger, but why can't the minimum requirement to do it be like 60-70% of buu's level?

[Pocket-God]

I wanna see how strong you think this Piccolo is.

Who on this list can Piccolo(Cell Games) beat?

-Androids 17 and 18
-1st Form Cell (vs 16)
-Android 16
-2nd Form Cell
-Super Saiyan Vegeta (Post 1st rosat)
-Super Saiyan Trunks (Post 1st rosat)
-Ultra Super Saiyan Trunks
-Initial Perfect Cell (vs Vegeta and Trunks)

[apex_pretador]

I wanna see how strong you think this Piccolo is.

Who on this list can Piccolo(Cell Games) beat?

-Androids 17 and 18
-1st Form Cell (vs 16)
-Android 16
-2nd Form Cell
-Super Saiyan Vegeta (Post 1st rosat)
-Super Saiyan Trunks (Post 1st rosat)
-Ultra Super Saiyan Trunks
-Initial Perfect Cell (vs Vegeta and Trunks)

he clears the list, with perfect cell giving him hell.
If PC powers up the slightest, he is dead.

[Pocket-God]

I wanna see how strong you think this Piccolo is.

Who on this list can Piccolo(Cell Games) beat?

-Androids 17 and 18
-1st Form Cell (vs 16)
-Android 16
-2nd Form Cell
-Super Saiyan Vegeta (Post 1st rosat)
-Super Saiyan Trunks (Post 1st rosat)
-Ultra Super Saiyan Trunks
-Initial Perfect Cell (vs Vegeta and Trunks)

he clears the list, with perfect cell giving him hell.
If PC powers up the slightest, he is dead.

Oh I see, very interesting. And how do you think he compares to Vegeta and Trunks(Cell Games) could he beat those guys or would he lose to them?

[apex_pretador]

I wanna see how strong you think this Piccolo is.

Who on this list can Piccolo(Cell Games) beat?

-Androids 17 and 18
-1st Form Cell (vs 16)
-Android 16
-2nd Form Cell
-Super Saiyan Vegeta (Post 1st rosat)
-Super Saiyan Trunks (Post 1st rosat)
-Ultra Super Saiyan Trunks
-Initial Perfect Cell (vs Vegeta and Trunks)

he clears the list, with perfect cell giving him hell.
If PC powers up the slightest, he is dead.

Oh I see, very interesting. And how do you think he compares to Vegeta and Trunks(Cell Games) could he beat those guys or would he lose to them?

He'd lose to CG vegeta = trunks. Vegeta was confident that he can beat cell (who he knew was suppressed), but piccolo knew that he was useless against cell.

[apex_pretador]

- Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan VS SS Majin vegeta (no SS2)

- Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan VS BoJack

- BoG SS3 goku , Buu arc mystic Gohan , SS3 gotenks (no time limit) VS buuhan

- Kid goku (no tail, 21st TB) vs Nam (21st TB)

- Bora, General blue , Goku (pre karin) VS Akkuman / devilman (no devilmite/akkumite beam)

- Kid buuhan (kid buu + gohan) vs super buuku (super buu + SS3 goku)

[Pocket-God]

Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan > SS Majin vegeta (no SS2)

- Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan ? BoJack

- BoG SS3 goku , Buu arc mystic Gohan , SS3 gotenks (no time limit) << buuhan

- Kid goku (no tail, 21st TB) > Nam (21st TB)

- Bora, General blue , Goku (pre karin) < Akkuman / devilman (no devilmite/akkumite beam)

- Kid buuhan (kid buu + gohan) > super buuku (super buu + SS3 goku)

---

How about some battles with the god characters?

SSB Goku and Vegeta vs Gold Frieza and Base Demigra

Base Demigra vs Beerus(50%)

Final Form Demigra vs Beerus (100%)

SSB Goku vs Beerus (75%)

SSB Vegeta vs Golden Frieza (Fresh, basically Vegeta went first instead of Goku)

Whis and Vados vs SSB Vegeta, SSB Goku, SSJG Goku, Beerus, Champa, Gold Frieza, Final Form Demigra, Final Form Frost, Piccolo(Champa Arc), Magetta and Botamo.

Xenoverse Hero vs SSGJ Goku

[apex_pretador]

]SSB Goku and Vegeta vs Gold Frieza and Base Demigra

Goku has high battle awareness and he will be able to handle demigra while vegeta and freeza will both be battle worn by the time goku beats demigra.
Then freeza will try to blow the planet up but goku will save vegeta & they will overwhelm freeza.

Base Demigra vs Beerus(50%)

No idea, probably beerus

Final Form Demigra vs Beerus (100%)

Definitely beerus

SSB Goku vs Beerus (75%)

Very close match. If it is a death match, beerus blows up the planet. If it is a regular fight then goku and beerus are basically even in power. I'd say beerus wins barely.

SSB Vegeta vs Golden Frieza (Fresh, basically Vegeta went first instead of Goku)

Vegeta dies. Freeza won't screw around against vegeta & go straight for kill. Even if vegeta manages to tire him out, freeza will blow the planet up.

Whis and Vados vs SSB Vegeta, SSB Goku, SSJG Goku, Beerus, Champa, Gold Frieza, Final Form Demigra, Final Form Frost, Piccolo(Champa Arc), Magetta and Botamo.

Either Whis or Vados 12-shots.
TBH, i don't think that anyone except beerus / champa can even hurt them.

[Khin]

- Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan VS SS Majin vegeta (no SS2)
- Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan VS BoJack
- BoG SS3 goku , Buu arc mystic Gohan , SS3 gotenks (no time limit) VS buuhan
- Kid buuhan (kid buu + gohan) vs super buuku (super buu + SS3 goku)

• Vegeta wrecks everyone in his path.
• The team gets the win after a hard battle.
• Gohan-Boo finger flicks everyone.SSj3 Goku is irrelevant here.
• SSj3 Goku and Pure Boo are about the same league in power.Ultimate Gohan and Evil Boo however,is a different story.So logically,Goku-Boo wins with ease.

Edit : I mean Gohan-Boo,not Goku-Boo.

[apex_pretador]

- Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan VS SS Majin vegeta (no SS2)
- Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan VS BoJack
- BoG SS3 goku , Buu arc mystic Gohan , SS3 gotenks (no time limit) VS buuhan
- Kid buuhan (kid buu + gohan) vs super buuku (super buu + SS3 goku)

• Vegeta wrecks everyone in his path.
• The team gets the win after a hard battle.
• Gohan-Boo finger flicks everyone.SSj3 Goku is irrelevant here.
• SSj3 Goku and Pure Boo are about the same league in power.Ultimate Gohan and Evil Boo however,is a different story.So logically,Goku-Boo wins with ease.

how does goku-buu wins with ease when kid buuhan is stronger?

[Khin]

- Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan VS SS Majin vegeta (no SS2)
- Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan VS BoJack
- BoG SS3 goku , Buu arc mystic Gohan , SS3 gotenks (no time limit) VS buuhan
- Kid buuhan (kid buu + gohan) vs super buuku (super buu + SS3 goku)

• Vegeta wrecks everyone in his path.
• The team gets the win after a hard battle.
• Gohan-Boo finger flicks everyone.SSj3 Goku is irrelevant here.
• SSj3 Goku and Pure Boo are about the same league in power.Ultimate Gohan and Evil Boo however,is a different story.So logically,Goku-Boo wins with ease.

how does goku-buu wins with ease when kid buuhan is stronger?

Wait,that was a typo.I mean Gohan-Boo.

[DanielSSJ]

I wanna see how strong you think this Piccolo is.

Who on this list can Piccolo(Cell Games) beat?

-Androids 17 and 18
-1st Form Cell (vs 16)
-Android 16
-2nd Form Cell
-Super Saiyan Vegeta (Post 1st rosat)
-Super Saiyan Trunks (Post 1st rosat)
-Ultra Super Saiyan Trunks
-Initial Perfect Cell (vs Vegeta and Trunks)

- Piccolo's weaker than Grade 3 Trunks, but wins due to the form's many weaknesses.

- Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan VS SS Majin vegeta (no SS2)

- Buu arc Piccolo , CG goku , Buu arc SS gohan VS BoJack

- BoG SS3 goku , Buu arc mystic Gohan , SS3 gotenks (no time limit) VS buuhan

- Kid goku (no tail, 21st TB) vs Nam (21st TB)

- Bora, General blue , Goku (pre karin) VS Akkuman / devilman (no devilmite/akkumite beam)

- Kid buuhan (kid buu + gohan) vs super buuku (super buu + SS3 goku)

- Vegeta's power advantage isn't enough to take all of them at once.
- Bojack is stronger than Vegeta but less skilled. Pretty much the same result as above.
- Goku is way too weak to make a difference here. Unfortunately, Gohan and Gotenks don't have the necessary skills to be able to fight against Gohan Boo.
- Since I don't believe Goku's tail made much of a difference in his power, it'd be the same as his match in the manga.
- These pre-Z matches always give me a headache. My gut says Akkuman, so Akkuman.
- Pure Boo + Gohan ends up stronger, but he also inherits Gohan's general incompetence. Goku + Evil Boo wins through better skills.

[Noah]

Namek freeza is probably one of the smartest villains in the series

Is that sarcasm?

[apex_pretador]

Namek freeza is probably one of the smartest villains in the series

Is that sarcasm?

I'm 100% serious

[Noah]

I'm 100% serious

Smart enough to let his henchmen die one by one because he is too damn lazy to do somethin'? Geez...

[Hugo Boss]

I wanna see how strong you think this Piccolo is.

Who on this list can Piccolo(Cell Games) beat?

-Androids 17 and 18
-1st Form Cell (vs 16)
-Android 16
-2nd Form Cell
-Super Saiyan Vegeta (Post 1st rosat)
-Super Saiyan Trunks (Post 1st rosat)
-Ultra Super Saiyan Trunks
-Initial Perfect Cell (vs Vegeta and Trunks)

Easily, androids 16, 17, 18 and maybe even 2nd Form Cell. Vegeta and Trunks are probably his best matches. Piccolo might be able to overpower final flash with his makkankosappo. Trunks will gradually become weaker as Piccolo avoids close-combat. He definetely can't beat Initial Perfect Cell.

[ZombieVito]

I wanna see how strong you think this Piccolo is.

Who on this list can Piccolo(Cell Games) beat?

-Androids 17 and 18
-1st Form Cell (vs 16)
-Android 16
-2nd Form Cell
-Super Saiyan Vegeta (Post 1st rosat)
-Super Saiyan Trunks (Post 1st rosat)
-Ultra Super Saiyan Trunks
-Initial Perfect Cell (vs Vegeta and Trunks)

Piccolo admitted inferiority to the Cell that beat Vegeta and Trunks so he beats everyone else but him.