Doctor. wrote:Disgusting. As if the way the anime handled these characters wasn't bad enough. I'm sick of these awful characters taking up space.
Why are we supposed to like these two again?
Well Caulifla steals form the King to help the poor so there's that, unless you like Broly there's nothing much about Kale tho
As long as Kale isn't as annoying in her base I'm sure this adaptation will be better than the anime one, I mean I really doubt that Freeza would go out before the final fights so we kind of know he's gonna win anyway
Last edited by ShaggyBlanco on Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm really interested in the prospect of Kale and Caulifla fighting Freeza. Not really sold on the idea of SSJ Kale being able easily beat the shit out of Golden Freeza, but the full chapter hasn't been officially released so the jury is still out.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
LightBing wrote:People jumping the gun with a couple of untranslated scans. Why did I expect better?
Anyway, from the little I saw I'm pleased with the teamwork of Kale and Caulifla. I hope it's more than just a few panels, all the rest needs the full context to formulate an opinion.
Well why would I expect it to be better when I already saw what they did to these untrained and inexperienced girls in the anime?
and cough cough* they said goten&trunks shouldn't come because they're kids and inexperienced *cough
As always, I'm going to withhold my full impressions until the chapter releases officially, but I like what I'm seeing so far. Caulifla and Kale were established to be significant characters in the manga during the recruitment period, so it's good that Toyotaro is following through on that and dedicating a chapter (or possibly more) to them. Pitting them against Freeza looks to be an interesting match-up.
Doctor. wrote:Disgusting. As if the way the anime handled these characters wasn't bad enough. I'm sick of these awful characters taking up space.
Why are we supposed to like these two again?
What would you like to see?
I'd like to see a series that is consistent with its theme of "hard work surpasses natural talent" and doesn't keep making our protagonist's hard work seem irrelevant in the face of geniuses who are born with their completely undeserved power. I mean, it works for villains, because they are meant to be defeated and we're not supposed to like those pricks to begin with, but Kale and Caulifla are characters that are portrayed in a positive light, we're supposed to like them. I'm not gonna like characters that constantly bend the rules of their universe and shit on everything it has established for the sake of looking cool.
Doctor. wrote:I'd like to see a series that is consistent with its theme of "hard work surpasses natural talent" and doesn't keep making our protagonist's hard work seem irrelevant in the face of geniuses who are born with their completely undeserved power. I mean, it works for villains, because they are meant to be defeated and we're not supposed to like those pricks to begin with, but Kale and Caulifla are characters that are portrayed in a positive light, we're supposed to like them. I'm not gonna like characters that constantly bend the rules of their universe and shit on everything it has established for the sake of looking cool.
You are reading the wrong series. That has never been a theme, everyone in this manga is a prodigy.
You know guys, this is the first time we've officially seen Golden Freeza in manga form, because remember, the Resurrection F manga ended before Freeza was able to show it off. Now what do you guys think of how Golden Freeza looks in manga form? Personally, I think it looks uuugggllly.
Dragon Ball Gus wrote:You know guys, this is the first time we've officially seen Golden Freeza in manga form, because remember, the Resurrection F manga ended before Freeza was able to show it off. Now what do you guys think of how Golden Freeza looks in manga form? Personally, I think it looks uuugggllly.
I have never liked this recolored form anyway so I just feel that the color tone looks a little weird. At first I thought he got another form like a silver form or something, maybe it's just me but I think that doesn't look much like golden
LightBing wrote:You are reading the wrong series. That has never been a theme, everyone in this manga is a prodigy.
Did the Saiyan and Namek arcs stop existing or what?
Where's the theme there? Vegeta's own crisis regarding the hierarchy of his race doesn't reflect on Goku.
Dude got the same experience as the Saiyans, x10 gravity and exploded in power. This is further cemented when Vegeta's is the one working harder to catch up to Goku the prodigy of prodigies.
Really not liking what the mangas done with Kale. I thought the anime was bad with this, but this is plain annoying. Hopefully Kefla doesn’t happen, as she would be way too OP in this. I mean there’s absolutely no reason for her to appear, Kale is an absolute monster. I remember there being a debate whether Kefla was actually stronger than SSJB without the stamina issues, but it’s looking like that couldn’t even be a debate for just Kale once she’s finished powering up.
The only thing I don’t mind from Toyo in this whole Kale shtick is the fact that she’s actually super duper strong in just her base, as I’ve seen Golden Freeza having a brief issue with Kale in her base. That in itself is super annoying, but it seems that the berserker form isn’t a greater multiplier than Blue. It redeems this mess a little bit for me.
So anyway, it makes sense why Kales so strong, but her power in every form just seems plain stupid. It’s insane. I just don’t understand how this is going on.
I just hope Jiren comes in and one shots soon.
On a different note I’m expecting SSJBE to be a thing in this, and maybe some power up for Goku before UI. He looks like horse shit at the moment, and there’s still a lot of fighting left unless he abuses UI, or maybe “breaking his shell” gives him a ridiculous boost. It’s apparent now that U7’s best warriors need a good boost.
Dragon Ball Gus wrote:You know guys, this is the first time we've officially seen Golden Freeza in manga form, because remember, the Resurrection F manga ended before Freeza was able to show it off. Now what do you guys think of how Golden Freeza looks in manga form? Personally, I think it looks uuugggllly.
I have never liked this recolored form anyway so I just feel that the color tone looks a little weird. At first I thought he got another form like a silver form or something, maybe it's just me but I think that doesn't look much like golden
Yeap he looks too dark in where seems to be his first appearance, don’t like it . In later panels he looks better .
Kale berserk looks so good , I’m not a fan of oversized muscles
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....
LightBing wrote:You are reading the wrong series. That has never been a theme, everyone in this manga is a prodigy.
Did the Saiyan and Namek arcs stop existing or what?
Where's the theme there? Vegeta's own crisis regarding the hierarchy of his race doesn't reflect on Goku.
Dude got the same experience as the Saiyans, x10 gravity and exploded in power. This is further cemented when Vegeta's is the one working harder to catch up to Goku the prodigy of prodigies.
Except it's not Vegeta's own crisis. The theme is clearly vocalized through Vegeta and Goku's first interaction:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
You choosing to willfully ignore it does not mean it's not there. It then follows into the Namek arc, where Goku, a low-class Saiyan, keeps surpassing Saiyan limits through gravity training and defeats the epitome of natural-born talent, Freeza.
You could argue that it's not well-presented, what with the zenkai boosts being essentially free power-ups due to Saiyan biology (even if Super Saiyan still epitomizes the idea that hard work pays off since only through his gravity training could Goku achieve the necessary power to achieve the state), or that the series ditches that theme in the following arcs (which I'd somewhat agree with), but that does not mean it wasn't a major theme during two of the series' most iconic arcs.
Man I'm having a serious case of déjà vu with the current discussion going on, all that's missing is somebody calling Caulifla a Mary Sue among other things. Not that this issue ever bothered me in the anime much but Caulifla doesn't seem to be as bad in this version when it comes to how quickly she develops. Kale I can't defend as well but who knows maybe Toyo will have a flashback about Kales strength or something next chapter. But as per usual I'll wait till the full chapter is out before throwing a tantrum like some people do.
Doctor. wrote:
Did the Saiyan and Namek arcs stop existing or what?
Where's the theme there? Vegeta's own crisis regarding the hierarchy of his race doesn't reflect on Goku.
Dude got the same experience as the Saiyans, x10 gravity and exploded in power. This is further cemented when Vegeta's is the one working harder to catch up to Goku the prodigy of prodigies.
Except it's not Vegeta's own crisis. The theme is clearly vocalized through Vegeta and Goku's first interaction:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
You choosing to willfully ignore it does not mean it's not there. It then follows into the Namek arc, where Goku, a low-class Saiyan, keeps surpassing Saiyan limits through gravity training and defeats the epitome of natural-born talent, Freeza.
You could argue that it's not well-presented, what with the zenkai boosts being essentially free power-ups due to Saiyan biology (even if Super Saiyan still epitomizes the idea that hard work pays off since only through his gravity training could Goku achieve the necessary power to achieve the state), or that the series ditches that theme in the following arcs (which I'd somewhat agree with), but that does not mean it wasn't a major theme during two of the series' most iconic arcs.
In the cell arc Goku trains as hard as he can, but he still has to accept the fact that Gohan is the only one with enough natural talent to win the Cell Games. In the Buu arc Goten and Trunks get super saiyan 100% undeserved, and then Gohan gets a magical 0 effort power boost and becomes the strongest unfused character.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.
LightBing wrote:
Where's the theme there? Vegeta's own crisis regarding the hierarchy of his race doesn't reflect on Goku.
Dude got the same experience as the Saiyans, x10 gravity and exploded in power. This is further cemented when Vegeta's is the one working harder to catch up to Goku the prodigy of prodigies.
Except it's not Vegeta's own crisis. The theme is clearly vocalized through Vegeta and Goku's first interaction:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
You choosing to willfully ignore it does not mean it's not there. It then follows into the Namek arc, where Goku, a low-class Saiyan, keeps surpassing Saiyan limits through gravity training and defeats the epitome of natural-born talent, Freeza.
You could argue that it's not well-presented, what with the zenkai boosts being essentially free power-ups due to Saiyan biology (even if Super Saiyan still epitomizes the idea that hard work pays off since only through his gravity training could Goku achieve the necessary power to achieve the state), or that the series ditches that theme in the following arcs (which I'd somewhat agree with), but that does not mean it wasn't a major theme during two of the series' most iconic arcs.
In the cell arc Goku trains as hard as he can, but he still has to accept the fact that Gohan is the only one with enough natural talent to win the Cell Games. In the Buu arc Goten and Trunks get super saiyan 100% undeserved, and then Gohan gets a magical 0 effort power boost and becomes the strongest unfused character.
I said that you could argue that later arcs ditch the theme and I'd agree with that idea to an extent (even if Goku is still the one who resolves the conflict in both arcs). But two wrongs don't make a right.
Doctor. wrote:
Except it's not Vegeta's own crisis. The theme is clearly vocalized through Vegeta and Goku's first interaction:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
You choosing to willfully ignore it does not mean it's not there. It then follows into the Namek arc, where Goku, a low-class Saiyan, keeps surpassing Saiyan limits through gravity training and defeats the epitome of natural-born talent, Freeza.
You could argue that it's not well-presented, what with the zenkai boosts being essentially free power-ups due to Saiyan biology (even if Super Saiyan still epitomizes the idea that hard work pays off since only through his gravity training could Goku achieve the necessary power to achieve the state), or that the series ditches that theme in the following arcs (which I'd somewhat agree with), but that does not mean it wasn't a major theme during two of the series' most iconic arcs.
In the cell arc Goku trains as hard as he can, but he still has to accept the fact that Gohan is the only one with enough natural talent to win the Cell Games. In the Buu arc Goten and Trunks get super saiyan 100% undeserved, and then Gohan gets a magical 0 effort power boost and becomes the strongest unfused character.
I said that you could argue that later arcs ditch the theme and I'd agree with that idea to an extent (even if Goku is still the one who resolves the conflict in both arcs). But two wrongs don't make a right.
You said later arcs, but what about the Super Divine Water? Also, Goku resolves the conflict in the cell saga?
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.
[/spoiler]