Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Goku and Gohan were around the same level of power during their fight on the farm, with Goku deeming Gohan's power adequate to where he would need Super Saiyan to overcome him, so Base Gohan during the TOP exhibition match was>>>>SSJ3 Gotenks. Which makes Ultimate Gohan from the Boo arc over 100 times stronger than Gotenks.

[PFM18]

Goku and Gohan were around the same level of power during their fight on the farm, with Goku deeming Gohan's power adequate to where he would need Super Saiyan to overcome him, so Base Gohan during the TOP exhibition match was>>>>SSJ3 Gotenks. Which makes Ultimate Gohan from the Boo arc over 100 times stronger than Gotenks.

Uh yeah I disagree with your logic but your conclusion makes sense. Ultimate Gohan in the ToP is leaps and bounds above SSJ3 Gotenks.

Goku and Gohan fighting was a casual sparring match of course Goku wasn't putting in any effort, with how much emphasis the whole "ki control" thing works Goku can go from using full-power to using almost nothing to a middling amount at any time. He can pretty much put himself at any level he wants instantaneously. There was no reason to think Gohan had gotten strong enough to compete with Goku as he wasn't training or anything of the sort. The best explanation is that Goku just wasn'tr trying and it shouldn't be used as a scene for scaling purposes

[Bullza]

Which makes Ultimate Gohan from the Boo arc over 100 times stronger than Gotenks.

He can't be. He wasn't even twice as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

He stomped Super Buu but once he absorbed Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks who was about as strong as him and his strength practically doubled then he was way too much for Gohan.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Nothing says that Boo's absorptions can't be multiplicative. That's what it has to be. Base Gohan can compete with Base Goku despite him being far stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks and Goku needs to transform to take on Gohan.

[ZombieVito]

Goku and Gohan were around the same level of power during their fight on the farm, with Goku deeming Gohan's power adequate to where he would need Super Saiyan to overcome him, so Base Gohan during the TOP exhibition match was>>>>SSJ3 Gotenks. Which makes Ultimate Gohan from the Boo arc over 100 times stronger than Gotenks.

Uh yeah I disagree with your logic but your conclusion makes sense. Ultimate Gohan in the ToP is leaps and bounds above SSJ3 Gotenks.

Goku and Gohan fighting was a casual sparring match of course Goku wasn't putting in any effort, with how much emphasis the whole "ki control" thing works Goku can go from using full-power to using almost nothing to a middling amount at any time. He can pretty much put himself at any level he wants instantaneously. There was no reason to think Gohan had gotten strong enough to compete with Goku as he wasn't training or anything of the sort. The best explanation is that Goku just wasn'tr trying and it shouldn't be used as a scene for scaling purposes

In both mediums, he is training after RoF.

Base Gohan was stronger than Lavender who alongside his brothers gave base Goku trouble in the ToP and this is a Goku who is way stronger than Gotenks to boot.

He isn't (and can't be) his Boo arc self at all.

[dragon boss z]

Nothing says that Boo's absorptions can't be multiplicative. That's what it has to be. Base Gohan can compete with Base Goku despite him being far stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks and Goku needs to transform to take on Gohan.

Well Buu saga mystic Gohan was already strong enough to stomp ssj3 Gotenks, and Gohan got a few times stronger from training with Piccolo. I would say base Goku is a bit above mystic Gohan from the Buu saga, or at least around that level, but needs ssj to tangle with current mystic Gohan.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Nothing says that Boo's absorptions can't be multiplicative. That's what it has to be. Base Gohan can compete with Base Goku despite him being far stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks and Goku needs to transform to take on Gohan.

Well Buu saga mystic Gohan was already strong enough to stomp ssj3 Gotenks, and Gohan got a few times stronger from training with Piccolo. I would say base Goku is a bit above mystic Gohan from the Buu saga, or at least around that level, but needs ssj to tangle with current mystic Gohan.

I'm pretty sure goku needs ssb to beat mystic gohan, its been shown time and time again that gohan is at least at the low levels of ToP ssb power. Most evidently shown while fighting maximum high speed mode dyspo.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Does anyone understand that I'm talking about Goku and Gohan's fight on the farm and not their fight before the TOP?

The Gohan from then was on par with Goku in the same form and he wasn't even as strong as his Ultimate power from the Boo arc as an SSJ2. So Goku even as a Super Saiyan is weaker than Ultimate Gohan from the Boo arc.

[PFM18]

Does anyone understand that I'm talking about Goku and Gohan's fight on the farm and not their fight before the TOP?

The Gohan from then was on par with Goku in the same form and he wasn't even as strong as his Ultimate power from the Boo arc as an SSJ2. So Goku even as a Super Saiyan is weaker than Ultimate Gohan from the Boo arc.

Yes, I was well aware of which squabble you were discussing.

To say that SSJ goku at this point in the series is weaker than Buu arc Ultimate Gohan is completely ridiculous. Everything in the series up to this point made it abundantly clear that Goku is leaps and bounds above everything in Z as a super saiyan. This one scene does not "prove" that the opposite is true. Did you ever think that maybe Goku was sparring against his kid and was holding back? Like seriously?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Does anyone understand that I'm talking about Goku and Gohan's fight on the farm and not their fight before the TOP?

The Gohan from then was on par with Goku in the same form and he wasn't even as strong as his Ultimate power from the Boo arc as an SSJ2. So Goku even as a Super Saiyan is weaker than Ultimate Gohan from the Boo arc.

Thing is, that fight isn't a good indicator because it was because Goku was bored and wanted to scrap; he was willing to do it with just about ANYONE, the slut

But seriously, it was mostly for some sparring fun; we later see that Goku as a SS2 does very well against an Ultimate Gohan who, at that point in the narrative, was already presumed much stronger than his previous Ultimate self based on the previous episode, something that Piccolo failed to do against a recently reawakened Ultimate Gohan that hadn't broken his limits yet.

In a more serious spar done to test one's mettle, things go much differently than if it's merely to train and spar for the heck of it.

[SayianBeyondGod]

Actually epsiode 130 was FP Jiren, also supreme kai can be a bit exggerating.

That was hidden power Jiren. He used his full power after Toppo was defeated.

That was more power than all of it.

[SayianBeyondGod]

Actually epsiode 130 was FP Jiren, also supreme kai can be a bit exggerating.

That was hidden power Jiren. He used his full power after Toppo was defeated.

He actually ised his full power at the end of 129, when he created that enourmous power impact that goku slapped out of existence.

Nothing implies that was his full power, the ki blast being big doesn't prove it at all. Beerus used a big ki blast to destroy the Earth for example.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

That was hidden power Jiren. He used his full power after Toppo was defeated.

He actually ised his full power at the end of 129, when he created that enourmous power impact that goku slapped out of existence.

Nothing implies that was his full power, the ki blast being big doesn't prove it at all. Beerus used a big ki blast to destroy the Earth for example.

HOWEVER, one of the Kaioshin from the 4 non-competing Universes comments on what Jiren's full-power will do against Goku's mastered Ultra Instinct.

Jiren is then shown getting his sh*t stomped; it's clear he's really struggling despite his overwhelming power, only managing to make headway by awakening power hidden within him.

As well, I believe promotional material and/or spoilers may have described Jiren's attack against Ultra Instinct Omen Goku asa full-power blast, though I'll need to cross-reference that one to be sure.

[Bullza]

Gohan's power will always be a bit confusing because in Base form he was stronger than Piccolo while Base Goku was weaker than Frieza, so why was Base Gohan so enormously powerful compared to Goku?

If Gohan was so powerful then why was it a struggle for him to hold Super Saiyan for long?

Some thought he turned Super Saiyan to gain his entire Ultimate power but that ended up not being the case in the end. So it's all kinda odd.

[Koitsukai]

Jiren actually powers up and that redish aura comes out again but even bigger now and after that he charges up his attack. I missed it when I watched it the first few million times but yeah, it wasn't just a charged attack like Vegeta did against Perfect Cell. It also makes sense, he wasn't needing more power to fight UI Omen.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

It seemed obvious to me that Gohan was tapping into his Ultimate power, but couldn't use the full power of that state due to lack of training.

It looked like he was using it when Shisami grabbed him hence the sharper features and right before he transformed into a Super Saiyan after Piccolo was killed.

Gohan could still use his Ultimate state during the ROF arc, but by that time it's power degraded enough to the point where Super Saiyan was superior.

[Almighty Majin]

If Gohan was so powerful then why was it a struggle for him to hold Super Saiyan for long?

Him struggling to hold SSJ is more of an issue with him being rusty from not training not a power issue.

[dragon boss z]

Gohan's power will always be a bit confusing because in Base form he was stronger than Piccolo while Base Goku was weaker than Frieza, so why was Base Gohan so enormously powerful compared to Goku?

If Gohan was so powerful then why was it a struggle for him to hold Super Saiyan for long?

Some thought he turned Super Saiyan to gain his entire Ultimate power but that ended up not being the case in the end. So it's all kinda odd.

This may be because the writers forgot Piccolo was supposed to be stronger than Frieza. I mean they thought it was ok for him to lose to Tagoma who was only stated to be above Ginyu force level. If he was supposed to be far above Frieza from Namek I feel it would of been stated instead of comparing him to the Ginyu force. Also I don't think that was part of Toriyama's draft anyways.

Nothing says that Boo's absorptions can't be multiplicative. That's what it has to be. Base Gohan can compete with Base Goku despite him being far stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks and Goku needs to transform to take on Gohan.

Well Buu saga mystic Gohan was already strong enough to stomp ssj3 Gotenks, and Gohan got a few times stronger from training with Piccolo. I would say base Goku is a bit above mystic Gohan from the Buu saga, or at least around that level, but needs ssj to tangle with current mystic Gohan.

I'm pretty sure goku needs ssb to beat mystic gohan, its been shown time and time again that gohan is at least at the low levels of ToP ssb power. Most evidently shown while fighting maximum high speed mode dyspo.

I don't think so. Gohan wasn't really impressive in the ToP and he could only fight max speed Dypso because of Frieza's barrier. Dyspo while restricted isn't SSB level. Gohan's kamehameha didn't even phase base Toppo, and SSB Goku and Vegeta were able to fight Jiren.

Does anyone understand that I'm talking about Goku and Gohan's fight on the farm and not their fight before the TOP?

The Gohan from then was on par with Goku in the same form and he wasn't even as strong as his Ultimate power from the Boo arc as an SSJ2. So Goku even as a Super Saiyan is weaker than Ultimate Gohan from the Boo arc.

Oh ya that moment. I take that as proof the writers just do whatever they want, and pretty much treat every transformation like they are equal half the time. I mean when ssj2 Goku and Caulifla fought Krillin said "so this is two ssj2 fighting" like ssj2 is a standard power. But it is impossible for ssj Goku to only be ssj Gohan level at that point. Ssj Goku has to at least be top tier Buu saga level if not higher.

It seemed obvious to me that Gohan was tapping into his Ultimate power, but couldn't use the full power of that state due to lack of training.

It looked like he was using it when Shisami grabbed him hence the sharper features and right before he transformed into a Super Saiyan after Piccolo was killed.

Gohan could still use his Ultimate state during the ROF arc, but by that time it's power degraded enough to the point where Super Saiyan was superior.

I could see why you think that, but the fact before the fight started Gohan said "I think I can still go ssj" and the fact he wasn't even sure he could take Frieza's men, means he probably completely lost the power at that point and he knew it.

[Bullza]

Well the movie never implied Base Gohan was stronger than Piccolo, the opposite if anything and so Super had to go and mess that up.

Additionally there was Future Trunks in Base form who was implied to be above Super Saiyan Trunks. So if Gohan and Trunks were around the same level it would kind of make sense.

Then you gotta wonder if Base Goku really was weaker than Frieza after all.

And why Piccolo would have gone from being as strong as Base Gohan during the Universe 6 saga to being about as strong as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan in the Universe Survival saga. So Piccolo got a hundred times stronger in a year? That's weird.

[Hugo Boss]

why Piccolo would have gone from being as strong as Base Gohan during the Universe 6 saga to being about as strong as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan in the Universe Survival saga. So Piccolo got a hundred times stronger in a year? That's weird.

In the same way Caulifla went from being paired with Goku’s normal to Goku’s SS2 form. SS2 is said to be several tens of times stronger than normal but I take that as a figure of speech, since I don’t believe they imagine the difference is that drastic. The same thing is said in relation to the Potara, but SS2 Caulifla and Base Kefla have very different levels.