The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Rocketman]

Chichi can beat Vegetto.

[Piccolo Daimao]

If you count Gogeta (Gokuu suggested that they use Metamoran fusion to defeat Super Boo, to which Vegeta declined), then yes, if Vegetto was at a lower transformation than him. So, for example, SS2 Gogeta could beat SS Vegetto.

[dbgtFO]

Can any canon character defeat ssj vegito? If not, then movie characters also?

Outside of GT, I believe Super Vegetto is the strongest character across all mediums, so no character would be able to beat him with their strength alone.
But if they decided to put some of their magic techniques to good use(ie. creating stuff out of thin air) then maybe they could conjure some extremely heavy clothes, not even Vegetto could carry, seal him in a box and then send it to the sun. Perhaps that would defeat him?

[Son Geeko]

Shouldn't this go somewhere else?

Aw crap, I didn't see that thread... SORRY!

[Mystic Gohan]

If you count Gogeta (Gokuu suggested that they use Metamoran fusion to defeat Super Boo, to which Vegeta declined), then yes, if Vegetto was at a lower transformation than him. So, for example, SS2 Gogeta could beat SS Vegetto.

Nah i meant characters that actually appeared, but yes ssj2 gogeta would stomp ssj vegito imo.

[Piccolo Daimao]

If you count Gogeta (Gokuu suggested that they use Metamoran fusion to defeat Super Boo, to which Vegeta declined), then yes, if Vegetto was at a lower transformation than him. So, for example, SS2 Gogeta could beat SS Vegetto.

Nah i meant characters that actually appeared, but yes ssj2 gogeta would stomp ssj vegito imo.

Right, then.

Just something I remembered now: didn't Toriyama say in his Daizenshuu 6 interview that he came up with the Potara fusion because Metamorian fusion had already been used in the movies? So wouldn't this imply that Toriyama had intended to have Gogeta instead of Vegetto appear in the story? Personally, I didn't like the idea of Potara. It seemed awfully convenient that these earrings could actually be used for fusion, and Kaioushin and Kibito apparently knew nothing about this.

Either way, I don't think Toriyama should've let Toei influence his decisions. Gogeta would've worked fine.

[Mystic Gohan]

I never liked vegito anyway. I thought it would have been hilarious to see veku fight gotenks buu or gohan buu.

[CatouttaHell]

Gogeta is nothing compared to Vegetto. There's multiple statements pointing to Super Vegetto >>> Base Vegetto > Gohan-Boo >>/>>> SSjin 3 Gogeta and nothing contradicts it.

SSjin 2 Gogeta wouldn't even hold a candle to SSjin 3 Gotenks, let alone any form of Vegetto.

I don't think Vegetto would stand a chance against most characters in GT though. The GT Perfect Files heavily implies GT SSjin Gohan > GT Base Gohan > Ultimate Gohan, and since Base Goku takes down SSjin Gohan in the Baby arc, he's probably closing in on Super Vegetto in even his base form by that point in time.

[Fox666]

I don't think anything was stated regarding Vegetto regular form.

[Kaboom]

I think he means when Goku asks if he should go Super Saiyan before he fuses, but the Old Kaioshin says he doesn't think he'll need to. Of course, this was technically referring to the anticipated Goku/Gohan fusion, so that might not necessarily be the case for Vegetto as well.

[Fox666]

It is completely different for Gohan, since he doesn't rely on his Super Saiyan form anymore.

[dprez]

SSjin 2 Gogeta wouldn't even hold a candle to SSjin 3 Gotenks, let alone any form of Vegetto.

That's pushing it a little. Although I do agree that we can judge how strong Gogeta would be by how powerful Ssj3 Gotenks is, Goku and Vegeta are much stronger than Trunks and Goten, and since Ssj Gogeta destroyed someone who's probably in Super Boos range with extreme ease, Ssj3 Gotenks (Who I have slightly stronger than Super Boo) is most likely not stronger than Ssj2 Gogeta, or really even Ssj Gogeta.

I do think Vegetto is a little stronger, but not by that much IMO.

[NANLIT]

Gogeta and Vegetto never had a problem with their opponents, so it's hard to really gauge their strength since they never struggled; only that they were much stronger than their opponents. Any fusion between Goku and Vegeta is the strongest fighter in the universe at the time. Between the 2, I say Vegetto is stronger, but it's not like they could ever fight each other anyway.

[CatouttaHell]

Goku and Vegeta are much stronger than Trunks and Goten

That's debatable. Son Goten was implied to already be on par with Gohan Pre-RoSaT and they were implied to get huge increases in the RoSaT.

and since Ssj Gogeta destroyed someone who's probably in Super Boos range with extreme ease

Movies are non-canon. Movie 13 shows Son Goku outdoing SSjin 3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan, and that's obviously contradictory bullshit.

Ssj3 Gotenks (Who I have slightly stronger than Super Boo) is most likely not stronger than Ssj2 Gogeta, or really even Ssj Gogeta.

I do think Vegetto is a little stronger, but not by that much IMO.

That's contradicted by Gotenks-Boo, Gohan-Boo, and even Vegetto himself.

Gohan-Boo flat-out said that Son Goku and Vegeta wouldn't stand a chance against him even if they fused, and Vegetto agreed with him by saying even he didn't think he'd be able to make such a fool out of him, despite already being told that Potara > Metamorian.

[dprez]

Goku and Vegeta are much stronger than Trunks and Goten

That's debatable. Son Goten was implied to already be on par with Gohan Pre-RoSaT and they were implied to get huge increases in the RoSaT.

and since Ssj Gogeta destroyed someone who's probably in Super Boos range with extreme ease

Movies are non-canon. Movie 13 shows Son Goku outdoing SSjin 3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan, and that's obviously contradictory bullshit.

It's not debatable. Goku and Vegeta are much stronger than Goten and Trunks. Gohan said that if he didn't watch out the kids would leave him in the dust. Gohan is stronger than Goten and Trunks during the entire boo saga. Movie 13 can show whatever it wants, were talking about Gogeta here. Movie 12 shows Ssj Gogeta to be far stronger than someone who's most likely around Super Boos level. Ssj3 Gotenks is around Super Boo's level, therefor Ssj Gogeta is at least Ssj3 Gotenks level, but most likely able to curb stomp Ssj3 Gotenks similar to how Ultimate Gohan could.

Ssj3 Gotenks (Who I have slightly stronger than Super Boo) is most likely not stronger than Ssj2 Gogeta, or really even Ssj Gogeta. I do think Vegetto is a little stronger, but not by that much IMO.

That's contradicted by Gotenks-Boo, Gohan-Boo, and even Vegetto himself.

Gohan-Boo flat-out said that Son Goku and Vegeta wouldn't stand a chance against him even if they fused, and Vegetto agreed with him by saying even he didn't think he'd be able to make such a fool out of him, despite already being told that Potara > Metamorian.

uhh, those Vegetto and Gohan Boo lines are anime only....and how exactly is what I said contradicted. I don't think it is...

You are vastly underestimating Gogeta....

[Silkman3003]

I think what Catouttahell is trying to say is that...a hypothetical Gogeta in regular Z...would be different from Movie 12....

It's why I believe he claimed that the movies were BS. Since(at least I am assuming) he is ignoring the movies for this particular event.

So.. in an eventful chance that Janemba is Super Buu or buutenks Level(with Gogeta in movie 12 being beyond that), the same thing probably wouldn't hold true for "cannon" Gogeta. Which is what he is likely talking about.

Despite this though...i'm not really sure how Gohan Buu would be stronger than SSj3 Gogeta. So I'd be interested to hear more of those points.

[dprez]

But that's the thing, his argument for Gogeta (cannon or non-cannon) being so weak is baseless...

Everything points to a Goku and Vegeta fusion being far stronger than a Trunks and Goten fusion.

[CatouttaHell]

It's not debatable. Goku and Vegeta are much stronger than Goten and Trunks. Gohan said that if he didn't watch out the kids would leave him in the dust. Gohan is stronger than Goten and Trunks during the entire boo saga.

Conjecture. SSjin Goten was shown sparring evenly with SSjin Gohan. Since both of them had auras flared it's obvious they were both putting out their full powers during the spar.

They then increased enough in the RoSaT for Base Gotenks to blow out his former SSjin. Going by implications they could easily be 90% of Son Goku Post-RoSaT IMO.

Don't forget also that Gohan has SSjin 2, and the kids only have SSjin. The fact that he's still worried about soon being surpassed despite having a whole form that they don't have could suggest they're very close together IMO.

Movie 13 can show whatever it wants, were talking about Gogeta here. Movie 12 shows Ssj Gogeta to be far stronger than someone who's most likely around Super Boos level. Ssj3 Gotenks is around Super Boo's level, therefor Ssj Gogeta is at least Ssj3 Gotenks level, but most likely able to curb stomp Ssj3 Gotenks similar to how Ultimate Gohan could.

Movie 12 is non-canon as well. Fat Janemba is stated to be the greatest Ki Son has ever sensed and he easily beats him in SSjin 3.

We can deduce from the fact that Gotenks used his Kamikaze Ghosts that this movie takes place after Gotenks went into the RoSaT, thus:

SSjin 3 Goku > Fat Janemba > SSjin 3 Gotenks

I agree with you that Movie 12 Gogeta is a beast and him even being on par with Vegetto is not in the realm of impossibility, but canon Gogeta should be worlds below Movie 12 Gogeta considering how haxed Movie 12 Son Goku is IMO.

uhh, those Vegetto and Gohan Boo lines are anime only....and how exactly is what I said contradicted. I don't think it is...

You are vastly underestimating Gogeta....

I don't think so.

Chapter: 503 (DBZ 309), P9.2
Context: as Goku heads to Vegeta with the Potara
Boo: “Now there’s another human with great power! But naturally he’s no match for me, even if they merged!”

Chapter: 505 (DBZ 311), P1.2
Context: after Vegetto outclasses Boo
Vegetto: “…Well, don’t feel too bad. Even I’m surprised. To think that I’d be able to make this big a fool out of you.”

Both Gohan-Boo and Vegetto seem to be in agreement here that Gogeta is a housefly compared to Vegetto IMO.

Gohan-Boo thinks Gogeta has no chance at all, and Vegetto is surprised that he can dominate Gohan-Boo despite knowing before he fused that he'd be above Gogeta.

[NANLIT]

Yeah, individually, Goku is stronger than Goten and Vegeta is stronger than Trunks. So Gogeta should be stronger than Gotenks by that logic.

[Silkman3003]

@Catouttahell
This might interest you as well
http://i.imgur.com/cLCyq.png

But that's the thing, his argument for Gogeta (cannon or non-cannon) being so weak is baseless...

Everything points to a Goku and Vegeta fusion being far stronger than a Trunks and Goten fusion.

Well this usually goes into the "how strong goten and trunks really are"...especially pre Rosat. Usually I've heard things from them being only Frieza level..to being able to defeat Semi Perfect Cell...to being weaker than 17/18.....to not being much weaker than FP Ssj Goku or Vegeta

And I'm not touching that argument lol.