Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[jeffbr92]

How strong are the Dragon Ball GT characters compared to the Super characters at this point?

Considering GT is 14 years after Super, I believe Baby Vegeta can outclass everyone on the show, but Beerus.

[Hugo Boss]

I don't think it's been brought up here for a very long time but seeing the newest Dragon Ball Heroes opening got me wondering.

Not on this thread, but there is another one where this discussion is happening.

I think the closest we have to an answer would be the games themselves. In my opinion, Super Saiyan Blue is slightly ahead of Super Saiyan 4. So, SSB Vegetto would be able to beat SS4 Gogeta. I think Omega Shenron is somewhat comparable to SS2 Kefla.

[Bullza]

Considering GT is 14 years after Super, I believe Baby Vegeta can outclass everyone on the show, but Beerus.

GT is a different timeline though. They might be older but they've had completely different forms and everything.

Not on this thread, but there is another one where this discussion is happening.

I think the closest we have to an answer would be the games themselves. In my opinion, Super Saiyan Blue is slightly ahead of Super Saiyan 4. So, SSB Vegetto would be able to beat SS4 Gogeta. I think Omega Shenron is somewhat comparable to SS2 Kefla.

You think they're that strong? Is there more that the games told us?

From the show itself, nobody in GT was every said to be able to destroy a Universe or anything like that. Perhaps Goku's Universal Spirit Bomb could do some damage though but then Beerus did nullify an attack that was going to destroy a Universe so who knows.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I don't think it's been brought up here for a very long time but seeing the newest Dragon Ball Heroes opening got me wondering.

How strong are the Dragon Ball GT characters compared to the Super characters at this point? Dragon Ball Heroes has Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Goku as being equal but that's just a game of course.

So amongst the Super Saiyan 4 level characters and then also Omega Shenron and Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta. Where would you class them amongst those in Super?

I don't think any of them would be as strong as Super Saiyan God myself. I'm not sure if it was true or a myth, I always forget but didn't some magazine suggest Super Saiyan 4 Goku was weaker than Super Vegito?

Thats a bad comparison, as xeno goku went through the ssg transformation, do he has an enhanced base like goku in super. he can kick demigras ass in base.

GT characters are honestly irrelavent ever since the BOG arc, which saddens me because i love Some of the characters.

The magazine you bring up is vauge. Its says that once vegito is born, he is perhaps stronger than a ssj4... an thats it, it doesnt mention any name. I took it as base vegito being a boost similar to ssj4, not that base vegito is perhaps stronger than a ssj4 from the Gt era, where base goku can kick rildos ass, who is stronger than buu (any boo could have given ssj3 goku a lot of trouble).

[Koitsukai]

I just finished watching GT and Zamasu arc all over again and probably Omega Shenron and Gogeta would be outclassed by the RoF or the Champa Arc and SS4 Goku (S$4 Vegeta was weaker) at best be SSgod tier.

But to give GT a break, I can live with Omega being around the first SSRose, and SS4 Gogeta being around SSBlue KKx10/20 from that same trip to the future. And maybe FPSS4 Goku that wrecked Omega before absorbing the rest of the DB, around SSBlue from RoF. Definitely everything after the Potara fusions would stomp GT no matter how good you want to be to GT characters, at best I see Gogeta looking like fodder againt Merged Zamasu just like Goku, Vegeta and Trunks.

[Marlowe89]

How strong are the Dragon Ball GT characters compared to the Super characters at this point?

You answered your own question. Heroes (and also Xenoverse if I'm not mistaken) likes to portray Super Saiyan 4 as a sort of alternate continuity equivalent to Super Saiyan Blue in power, but then you have the older guidebooks which have drawn comparisons between Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Super Vegito as well as establishing the idea that Yi Xing Long (Syn Shenron in the dub) is supposedly only a galaxy buster. There's also the GT anime suggesting that Omega Shenron would have only been capable of destroying the universe over a lengthy period of time; obviously that's quite the far cry from Super Saiyan God's power, which can destroy it in a much shorter timeframe.

In short, some modern official sources would rather have you believe that GT's scale roughly correlates to Super's, but it doesn't quite pan out that way when you actually observe and compare the scaling between shows.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Went to make sure, and yes, the guide does not mention any names. It says something like “once the two heroes merge, they become the greatest masters in the universe, perhaps even stronger than ssj4”. To me, it sounds very much like they are comparing the potara boost, to the ssj4 transformation, or slightly above. Meaning that if goku and vegeta could have somehow potaa fused in GT, they could have taken ssj4 level threats in base. I think it makes sense, i always had the ssj4 form and base vegito a couple dozens of times stronger then ssj3 in their own era.

[Bullza]

Thats a bad comparison, as xeno goku went through the ssg transformation, do he has an enhanced base like goku in super. he can kick demigras ass in base.

You're referring to the Xenoverse Goku? How do know that's the same as Xeno Goku? From what I know he'd never become a Super Saiyan God and don't know about Super Saiyan Blue.

but then you have the older guidebooks which have drawn comparisons between Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Super Vegito as well as establishing the idea that Yi Xing Long (Syn Shenron in the dub) is supposedly only a galaxy buster. There's also the GT anime suggesting that Omega Shenron would have only been capable of destroying the universe over a lengthy period of time; obviously that's quite the far cry from Super Saiyan God's power, which can destroy it in a much shorter timeframe.

I don't remember seeing the Galaxy comment anywhere but I sort of recall the Universe thing from the show. I also remember they said Omega Shenron was ten times as strong as Syn Shenron.

That's kinda why I though all GT characters except maybe Gogeta would be inferior to Super Saiyan God.

[Hugo Boss]

Not on this thread, but there is another one where this discussion is happening.

I think the closest we have to an answer would be the games themselves. In my opinion, Super Saiyan Blue is slightly ahead of Super Saiyan 4. So, SSB Vegetto would be able to beat SS4 Gogeta. I think Omega Shenron is somewhat comparable to SS2 Kefla.

You think they're that strong? Is there more that the games told us?

From the show itself, nobody in GT was every said to be able to destroy a Universe or anything like that. Perhaps Goku's Universal Spirit Bomb could do some damage though but then Beerus did nullify an attack that was going to destroy a Universe so who knows.

There is a decent amount of stuff that compares SS4 and SSB, not only Dragon Ball Heroes. Namely, wafer stickers collections, Dokkan Battle etc. I don’t put much stock on destructive capability, because this is not always consistent.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Outside of the xenoverse games, we have nothing to compare them with, and even in xenoverse 2, it is the super versions of ssj4 goku and vegeta who fight their ssb versions in the infinite history mode.

Db fusion has ssj4 gogeta far stronger than anyone in terms of game mechanics tho, hes OP as fuck in that game

[Koitsukai]

You could compare GT rivals though. Vegeta Baby was Vegeta (stopped chasing after Goku a long time ago according to himself) + Baby who sucked, never fought with his own strenght + weak saiyan's power.

N°17 was suppose to be as strong as he was in Z arc or maybe stronger but not that much(afraid of 18's bomb going off although that was her own headcannon), definitely not the godlike cyborg they made him to be in Super, so imagine a fusion between those two.

Really, it is hard to believe SSGod would struggle with anyone but Omega Shenron.

[Kenneth La Torre]

The GT perfect files and the japanese dub itself has Ssj4 Gogeta state that he can kill omega shenron with a single finger. If you think that justifies him fighting god level characters is uo to you.

[Rakurai]

I don't think it's been brought up here for a very long time but seeing the newest Dragon Ball Heroes opening got me wondering.

How strong are the Dragon Ball GT characters compared to the Super characters at this point? Dragon Ball Heroes has Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Goku as being equal but that's just a game of course.

So amongst the Super Saiyan 4 level characters and then also Omega Shenron and Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta. Where would you class them amongst those in Super?

I don't think any of them would be as strong as Super Saiyan God myself. I'm not sure if it was true or a myth, I always forget but didn't some magazine suggest Super Saiyan 4 Goku was weaker than Super Vegito?

I mentioned this in another thread. For fear of sounding like a broken record, I'll just recap:

This is as closest to the original scan as I could find: http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dr ... tory07.jpg

The first two passages recall the events of the Cell arc and Buu arc. How Goku teleported Cell away, remained dead in order to prevent more harm from the Earth, trained in the other world to achieve SSJ3, fought Buu with it, and a tidbit on how SSJ3 is a draining form.

The last passage with Vegetto, however, is meant to be more informative than recollective. Because it mainly describes Vegetto himself and how he can go SSJ. No mention of this Vegetto being the same one who fought Gohan Buu, who got separated inside Buu's body, who was a desperate fusion attempt between Goku & Vegeta, etc. Which implies that it's talking about a hypothetical Vegetto in general and not necessarily the one from Z.

I'd also be more than happy to translate the original Japanese if I could find a scan of it. But this is basically what the passage is saying as far as I can tell.

[Bullza]

So it could also be referring to Vegito as of GT? If so then considering how strong Base Kid Goku was then that would make it an entirely different Vegito altogether.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Alright, can Gohan destroy the universe then? How about Trunks?

[Hugo Boss]

Alright, can Gohan destroy the universe then? How about Trunks?

I don’t think so. When it comes down to one person in one shot, it seems to be something exclusive to Zeno. God level beings can do it when they superclash (it’s hinted that Gods of Destruction can do it in one clash, while Super Saiyan God needs more than two). Since, it depends on specific conditions to happen with non-Zeno beings, I think this is not something to be expected in every fight among god level fighters.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Alright, can Gohan destroy the universe then? How about Trunks?

If he is super saiyan blue level, then most likely he is able to at least destroy a couple dozen galaxies in one shot, probably. But the only beings so far that are capable of one shotting a universe are ones who have at least ssj2 kefla levels of power and above. With zeno being a multiverse buster

[Rakurai]

So it could also be referring to Vegito as of GT? If so then considering how strong Base Kid Goku was then that would make it an entirely different Vegito altogether.

Yeah, it's just hyping up Vegetto in general. The passage doesn't reference Z Vegetto (the picture is just a visual since Vegetto was never shown anywhere but Z at the time). Plus if base Kefla could dominate SSG Goku, and SSJ Kefla is stronger than SSB-KKx20 Goku, it's not unreasonable that the latest incarnations at the time (GT Goku and Vegeta) could create a SSJ fusion whose multiplier is greater than SSJ4 alone.

[PFM18]

I don't think it's been brought up here for a very long time but seeing the newest Dragon Ball Heroes opening got me wondering.

How strong are the Dragon Ball GT characters compared to the Super characters at this point? Dragon Ball Heroes has Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Goku as being equal but that's just a game of course.

So amongst the Super Saiyan 4 level characters and then also Omega Shenron and Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta. Where would you class them amongst those in Super?

I don't think any of them would be as strong as Super Saiyan God myself. I'm not sure if it was true or a myth, I always forget but didn't some magazine suggest Super Saiyan 4 Goku was weaker than Super Vegito?

Super characters are much,much stronger than GT. At this point Goku and Vegeta are millions of times stronger than their max output in the buu saga

[Nevaeh]

Buu saga Super Vegito possibly being on par or stronger than SSJ4 Goku from the Baby saga says it all really