"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Terez]

I thought the immortality theory was dead for a minute there. But then we were reminded of the time rings, so that's still a possibility.

That said, in the minute I thought the immortality theory was dead, my mind was racing for other possibilities as to how it might go down. A few things came to mind, but nothing quite as good as the immortality scenario.

[Sodhi]

I'm guessing Zuno comes to tell Kaioshin what happened with Zamasu showing up at his place and then Kaioshin comes to Earth to tell the gang.

Good job man you called it . Although he just contacted him,did not come to him.

[ArchedThunder]

I'm guessing Zuno comes to tell Kaioshin what happened with Zamasu showing up at his place and then Kaioshin comes to Earth to tell the gang.

Good job man you called it . Although he just contacted them,did not come to them.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day!

[sailorspazz]

So the latest episode didn't tell us much, but throws some wrenches into existing speculation. My own thoughts were that Zamasu would wish for immortality in this episode, then go back to where he lives with Gowasu, and end up being "destroyed" by Beerus in a couple episodes as the summaries revealed (but would actually survive, unbeknownst to everyone else, and continue on with his extermination plan). But this episode made it clear that everyone is aware that Zamasu was immortal in the future, so surely when Beerus tries to kill him, he has to make sure he actually dies from it just in case he already got immortality somehow (maybe there's some special way to magically kill otherwise unkillable beings?), so I don't foresee them "accidentally" letting him live. And since the scenes of Zamasu making wishes were just speculation rather than events that were actually happening, I'm wondering how Zamasu will get out of this situation? The preview showed he's still trying to kill Gowasu, even with Kaioushin and Beerus right there, so what's his plan here? He couldn't have already wished for immortality, because he can't go to the future without Gowasu's earring, and the Super Dragon Balls are still inactive. He must realize that he'll wind up dead at the hands of Beerus if he tries anything, so if he's not yet immortal, why would he take that risk? He must either have some way to get out of this mess, or his plan actually involves getting himself killed for some reason. I feel like he has to survive in order to go to the future, since I'm still going with the theory that he's the same one currently in Trunks' timeline, but I guess we'll have to wait and see...

[Terez]

It looked to me like they were watching him through Whis's staff, not right there. So presumably he's going to have time to do whatever. And I don't know how much they would rely on this, but Whis's speculation was that he would wish for Black first, so maybe they still won't expect him to be immortal...but even if they do expect him to be immortal, it may be that Beerus is incapable of destroying his soul (but is capable of destroying his body), so there's still room for him to think he's killed Zamasu when he hasn't actually.

[kinisking]

I'm not even sure if this is what you guys are talking about but I think the Zamasu we saw in Future Trunks timeline, is the Zamasu from our present time line. He's just from further down our timeline. So he's gotten the immortality, killed Zamasu and then traveled to the same point as Goku and Vegeta. I don't think he's native to FT timeline.

Not exactly, and the evidence doesn't quite match up for that to be true. For one thing, the Zamasu in Trunks's timeline said he came to the battlefield to meet Goku. He's never met him before. For another thing, Black is the one who recognized Vegeta and Beerus, neither of whom exist in that timeline. And finally, we know from the summaries that Beerus is going to destroy Zamasu's body in the main timeline, so that provides the impetus to steal Goku's body. All signs point to the Zamasu in Trunks's timeline being native to that timeline, and he would have wished for his own immortality there (which is probably what brought them to U7 in the first place).

Is that dragon team subs? Maybe the meet line didn't mean meet him for the first time. Just that he was coming to see him. Black recognized Vegeta and Beerus, but he might have known Beerus from Zamasu. Vegeta, I wouldn't know for sure but maybe he has Goku's memories? Also, Beerus destroys Zamasu because of what he learnt from what happened into the future. So this Zamasu that's further down the timeline wouldn't have been destroyed because he hadn't done anything yet that would have come to Beerus's attention. And we know killing someone in their past won't affect their future selves. Although you have a point about Zamasu being interested in stealing Goku's body after Beerus destroyed him. That would be pretty cool.

[Terez]

I'm not even sure if this is what you guys are talking about but I think the Zamasu we saw in Future Trunks timeline, is the Zamasu from our present time line. He's just from further down our timeline. So he's gotten the immortality, killed Zamasu and then traveled to the same point as Goku and Vegeta. I don't think he's native to FT timeline.

Not exactly, and the evidence doesn't quite match up for that to be true. For one thing, the Zamasu in Trunks's timeline said he came to the battlefield to meet Goku. He's never met him before. For another thing, Black is the one who recognized Vegeta and Beerus, neither of whom exist in that timeline. And finally, we know from the summaries that Beerus is going to destroy Zamasu's body in the main timeline, so that provides the impetus to steal Goku's body. All signs point to the Zamasu in Trunks's timeline being native to that timeline, and he would have wished for his own immortality there (which is probably what brought them to U7 in the first place).

Is that dragon team subs? Maybe the meet line didn't mean meet him for the first time. Just that he was coming to see him.

DragonTeam hasn't released that episode yet. But sailorspazz already clarified it here:

And it was established that he'd never met Goku before, so everything he knows about Goku has to come from Black.

Not necessarily...the verb Zamasu used when talking about meeting Gokuu ("au") doesn't exclusively refer to a first encounter; his line could've also been translated as "I came to see you", rather than "meet" (I suppose the translation group chose "meet" to mean more like "meet up"). In other words, the phrase used in Japanese doesn't tell us if it's the first time they've met or not, so we can't assume from that alone if that Zamasu has met Gokuu before. I do think the theory you put out has some merit, but just wanted to point out that this particular conclusion isn't necessarily true.

[HeroR]

Is that dragon team subs? Maybe the meet line didn't mean meet him for the first time. Just that he was coming to see him. Black recognized Vegeta and Beerus, but he might have known Beerus from Zamasu. Vegeta, I wouldn't know for sure but maybe he has Goku's memories? Also, Beerus destroys Zamasu because of what he learnt from what happened into the future. So this Zamasu that's further down the timeline wouldn't have been destroyed because he hadn't done anything yet that would have come to Beerus's attention. And we know killing someone in their past won't affect their future selves. Although you have a point about Zamasu being interested in stealing Goku's body after Beerus destroyed him. That would be pretty cool.

Problem. If he had Goku's memories, he would have known who Trunks was. Upon Black seeing Trunks the first time he says, 'a Saiyan?'. He also should know about Trunk's time machine, which Black clearly didn't.

[kinisking]

DragonTeam hasn't released that episode yet. But sailorspazz already clarified it here:

Thanks!

Is that dragon team subs? Maybe the meet line didn't mean meet him for the first time. Just that he was coming to see him. Black recognized Vegeta and Beerus, but he might have known Beerus from Zamasu. Vegeta, I wouldn't know for sure but maybe he has Goku's memories? Also, Beerus destroys Zamasu because of what he learnt from what happened into the future. So this Zamasu that's further down the timeline wouldn't have been destroyed because he hadn't done anything yet that would have come to Beerus's attention. And we know killing someone in their past won't affect their future selves. Although you have a point about Zamasu being interested in stealing Goku's body after Beerus destroyed him. That would be pretty cool.

Problem. If he had Goku's memories, he would have known who Trunks was. Upon Black seeing Trunks the first time he says, 'a Saiyan?'. He also should know about Trunk's time machine, which Black clearly didn't.

True, can't really explain him knowing Vegeta that way then. However, if it's future Zamasu then we can't really explain him wanting to kill Goku either. Guess we're just going to have to wait and see to find out.

[HeroR]

DragonTeam hasn't released that episode yet. But sailorspazz already clarified it here:

Thanks!

Is that dragon team subs? Maybe the meet line didn't mean meet him for the first time. Just that he was coming to see him. Black recognized Vegeta and Beerus, but he might have known Beerus from Zamasu. Vegeta, I wouldn't know for sure but maybe he has Goku's memories? Also, Beerus destroys Zamasu because of what he learnt from what happened into the future. So this Zamasu that's further down the timeline wouldn't have been destroyed because he hadn't done anything yet that would have come to Beerus's attention. And we know killing someone in their past won't affect their future selves. Although you have a point about Zamasu being interested in stealing Goku's body after Beerus destroyed him. That would be pretty cool.

Problem. If he had Goku's memories, he would have known who Trunks was. Upon Black seeing Trunks the first time he says, 'a Saiyan?'. He also should know about Trunk's time machine, which Black clearly didn't.

True, can't really explain him knowing Vegeta that way then. However, if it's future Zamasu then we can't really explain him wanting to kill Goku either. Guess we're just going to have to wait and see to find out.

I think that is because Future Zamasu is present Zamasu who time-traveled. Future Zamasu of Trunks' time wouldn't hate Goku to the point that he would leave his comfortable place in heaven to personally kill Goku. And this line, 'I will sleep easy tonight'. It's like Goku hunted his dreams or something.

[namekiansaiyan]

I just hope that Beerus not just kills Zamasu but Black as well. To me that would be a great end fight as we know that no one else can match him.

What? You can't be for real, that would ruin the whole arc! Beerus is not that all-powerful nowadays, you know, 2 SSGSS would be enough to defeat him, SSJR should be slighty stronger it could give him a good match, I hope someone could defeat him in this arc.

How do know they are stronger than Beerus.

[Khin]

What? You can't be for real, that would ruin the whole arc! Beerus is not that all-powerful nowadays, you know, 2 SSGSS would be enough to defeat him, SSJR should be slighty stronger it could give him a good match, I hope someone could defeat him in this arc.

It was never stated in Super that two SSB could defeat Beerus. As far as we know, Beerus is more than 10x stronger than Goku and Vegeta (Anime), while it is unknown how much stronger Beerus compared to Goku and Vegeta in the manga. Black and Zamasu on the other hand doesn't seem to be someone Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks can't defeat together seeing how Goku wants to fight them again immediately with the only problem is Zamasu's immortality. Black and Zamasu's only chance of killing Beerus is killing Kaioshin.

[alakazam^]

This arc seems to be really well thought-out. Black recognized Vegeeta and they have prevented him from meeting prresent Zamasu twice now, even though I doubt many people still remember that detail. This is part of the puzzle for sure.

I also like how convenient it is for Kaioushin to stay around (for him to end up being killed?)

[vilker]

This arc seems to be really well thought-out. Black recognized Vegeeta and they have prevented him from meeting prresent Zamasu twice now, even though I doubt many people still remember that detail. This is part of the puzzle for sure.

I also like how convenient it is for Kaioushin to stay around (for him to end up being killed?)

Black has Goku memories.

Everyway I think this Zamasu isn't the same future Zamasu. Anybody would leave alive present Zamasu knowing that in the future is immortal. Besides there is no reason for Zamasu to travel to Trunks timeline. It needs another new alternative timeline to fit the puzzle.

[Bullza]

I should have made my other comment here I suppose.

Basically I said I think that because of Present Zamasu possibly using the time ring to go to the future as well as him supposedly being killed that maybe he'll end up in the future timelines afterlife where he will come across the Goku who died from a heart attack and somehow he'll take him over.

[Luso Saiyan]

Early on, Beerus says that Black's ki feels like "Son Goku, yet not Son Goku".

He was referring to Black, not Black's ki. Black's ki is similar (if not the same) as Zamasu, that's why Whis and Beerus go to him in U10.

[HeroR]

This arc seems to be really well thought-out. Black recognized Vegeeta and they have prevented him from meeting prresent Zamasu twice now, even though I doubt many people still remember that detail. This is part of the puzzle for sure.

I also like how convenient it is for Kaioushin to stay around (for him to end up being killed?)

Black has Goku memories.

Everyway I think this Zamasu isn't the same future Zamasu. Anybody would leave alive present Zamasu knowing that in the future is immortal. Besides there is no reason for Zamasu to travel to Trunks timeline. It needs another new alternative timeline to fit the puzzle.

Yet, he didn't know who Trunks was or about time-travel, two facts Goku would have known.

[kinisking]

DragonTeam hasn't released that episode yet. But sailorspazz already clarified it here:

Thanks!

Problem. If he had Goku's memories, he would have known who Trunks was. Upon Black seeing Trunks the first time he says, 'a Saiyan?'. He also should know about Trunk's time machine, which Black clearly didn't.

True, can't really explain him knowing Vegeta that way then. However, if it's future Zamasu then we can't really explain him wanting to kill Goku either. Guess we're just going to have to wait and see to find out.

I think that is because Future Zamasu is present Zamasu who time-traveled. Future Zamasu of Trunks' time wouldn't hate Goku to the point that he would leave his comfortable place in heaven to personally kill Goku. And this line, 'I will sleep easy tonight'. It's like Goku hunted his dreams or something.

Yeah, I think so too. But how does Black know about Vegeta?

[ArchedThunder]

Yet, he didn't know who Trunks was or about time-travel, two facts Goku would have known.

Not if his memories are from future Goku.

[HeroR]

Yeah, I think so too. But how does Black know about Vegeta?

That is the main question. Zamasu has never seen Vegeta. Before, I thought he met Vegeta when Goku and the others confronted him about killing Gawasu. Yet, Vegeta chose not to go with him.

My only explanation is that Zamasu did take over or got control of Future Goku. That would explain how he would know Vegeta, yet wouldn't know who Trunks is or about the time machine (this is assuming that Black keeps all of Future Goku's memories, meaning he's more than a corpse). Naturally, that wouldn't explain why Black have a Time Ring. However, it would explain why the Time Ring is silver instead of green. Because, as far as we know, if Black came from another timeline, the only way he can travel to Trunks' time is using the green Time Rings that links to another timeline.

But, that also brings the questions of how did Black know about Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. He wasn't at all surprise when he saw it and Trunks notes that it was like he has seen it before. I guess this can be explained that Zamasu told Black about the transformation, since he did see it on TV.

Yet, he didn't know who Trunks was or about time-travel, two facts Goku would have known.

Not if his memories are from future Goku.

Possible, but why would Black need a Time Ring if he's a native of Trunks' time?