HeroR wrote:
No, I'm saying you're getting on Gohan for not being on scene and doing stuff, despite not knowing what is going, yet you give Piccolo a free pass when he knows perfectly well what is happening.
Cuz Piccolo never once in Z was een close to Gohan's role.
And well you know why... because Gohan was once my favourite character... And even as in Saiyan saga kid before he became the strongest... Tadda.
If you don't see the difference in importance between Piccolo and Gohan I can't help out... Even more if Gohan's chracter is contradicting itself even in Super
I don't think this is as bad because he simply doesn't know whats going on. Can't help if he doesn't know he needs to. The fact that they hid it from him shows the writers at least know that Gohan would definitely try to help if he knew about the situation. Although it's stupid as hell that he never asked Trunks..
Yeah even more if at least one day passed and he not even tried to ask in that timeframe.
Instead he gives still not a damn that his dad was closed of being killed. Hell even with Trunks visit it was already really weak story telling.
I love happy family Gohan and everything. But he could have ask the situation of FT after he came all he way from the future with torn up clothes. Instead he talked just about Pan.
Why not simply saying hey Trunks I would like to help but I can't leave my family behind and I became to weak for being a help in this situation.
But to be even more concrete... I hope Goku and Vegeta will fail soon very hard with no chance for a 2nd try that he and the even the others will realize that they can't hope for their daddies to clear things forever for them.
And Gohan the most... Who will protect his familiy if Daddy Goku won't be around anymore. Or will he again like after Cell think that a new threat will never come again... Even after witnessing opposite more than once before.
And please no Piccolo again. Even if he would have tried he never would come close to the potential of the Saiyans and for sure not Gohan
Kishido wrote:
Cuz Piccolo never once in Z was een close to Gohan's role.
And well you know why... because Gohan was once my favourite character... And even as in Saiyan saga kid before he became the strongest... Tadda.
If you don't see the difference in importance between Piccolo and Gohan I can't help out... Even more if Gohan's chracter is contradicting itself even in Super
I don't think this is as bad because he simply doesn't know whats going on. Can't help if he doesn't know he needs to. The fact that they hid it from him shows the writers at least know that Gohan would definitely try to help if he knew about the situation. Although it's stupid as hell that he never asked Trunks..
Yeah even more if at least one day passed and he not even tried to ask in that timeframe.
Instead he gives still not a damn that his dad was closed of being killed. Hell even with Trunks visit it was already really weak story telling.
I love happy family Gohan and everything. But he could have ask the situation of FT after he came all he way from the future with torn up clothes. Instead he talked just about Pan.
Why not simply saying hey Trunks I would like to help but I can't leave my family behind and I became to weak for being a help in this situation.
But to be even more concrete... I hope Goku and Vegeta will fail soon very hard with no chance for a 2nd try that he and the even the others will realize that they can't hope for their daddies to clear things forever for them.
And Gohan the most... Who will protect his familiy if Daddy Goku won't be around anymore. Or will he again like after Cell think that a new threat will never come again... Even after witnessing opposite more than once before.
And please no Piccolo again. Even if he would have tried he never would come close to the potential of the Saiyans and for sure not Gohan
Gohan was obviously not in the original script written by Toriyama.
That last paragraph you wrote just shows you only care about strong characters.
Just accept that Gohan is now just a typical nerd and they don't fight.
kinisking wrote:
I don't think this is as bad because he simply doesn't know whats going on. Can't help if he doesn't know he needs to. The fact that they hid it from him shows the writers at least know that Gohan would definitely try to help if he knew about the situation. Although it's stupid as hell that he never asked Trunks..
Yeah even more if at least one day passed and he not even tried to ask in that timeframe.
Instead he gives still not a damn that his dad was closed of being killed. Hell even with Trunks visit it was already really weak story telling.
I love happy family Gohan and everything. But he could have ask the situation of FT after he came all he way from the future with torn up clothes. Instead he talked just about Pan.
Why not simply saying hey Trunks I would like to help but I can't leave my family behind and I became to weak for being a help in this situation.
But to be even more concrete... I hope Goku and Vegeta will fail soon very hard with no chance for a 2nd try that he and the even the others will realize that they can't hope for their daddies to clear things forever for them.
And Gohan the most... Who will protect his familiy if Daddy Goku won't be around anymore. Or will he again like after Cell think that a new threat will never come again... Even after witnessing opposite more than once before.
And please no Piccolo again. Even if he would have tried he never would come close to the potential of the Saiyans and for sure not Gohan
Gohan was obviously not in the original script written by Toriyama.
That last paragraph you wrote just shows you only care about strong characters.
Just accept that Gohan is now just a typical nerd and they don't fight.
Absolutely bullshit it is about them taking responsibility. They know they have the talent to protect everyone but instead still rely on Goku all the time. The kids are kids but Gohan went through it more than once but still things everything will be OK... That's what Goku tried to teach everyone at the Buu saga but even he has given up on it.
That's the difference to Future Trunks
But it is easy to put words into someone's mouth. Instead of doing so you could ask me who are my favourite characters and you for sure will be surprised not seeing anyone besides Vegeta in it
Kishido wrote:
Yeah even more if at least one day passed and he not even tried to ask in that timeframe.
Instead he gives still not a damn that his dad was closed of being killed. Hell even with Trunks visit it was already really weak story telling.
I love happy family Gohan and everything. But he could have ask the situation of FT after he came all he way from the future with torn up clothes. Instead he talked just about Pan.
Why not simply saying hey Trunks I would like to help but I can't leave my family behind and I became to weak for being a help in this situation.
But to be even more concrete... I hope Goku and Vegeta will fail soon very hard with no chance for a 2nd try that he and the even the others will realize that they can't hope for their daddies to clear things forever for them.
And Gohan the most... Who will protect his familiy if Daddy Goku won't be around anymore. Or will he again like after Cell think that a new threat will never come again... Even after witnessing opposite more than once before.
And please no Piccolo again. Even if he would have tried he never would come close to the potential of the Saiyans and for sure not Gohan
Gohan was obviously not in the original script written by Toriyama.
That last paragraph you wrote just shows you only care about strong characters.
Just accept that Gohan is now just a typical nerd and they don't fight.
Absolutely bullshit it is about them taking responsibility. They know they have the talent to protect everyone but instead still rely on Goku all the time. The kids are kids but Gohan went through it more than once but still things everything will be OK... That's what Goku tried to teach everyone at the Buu saga but even he has given up on it.
That's the difference to Future Trunks
But it is easy to put words into someone's mouth. Instead of doing so you could ask me who are my favourite characters and you for sure will be surprised not seeing anyone besides Vegeta in it
I know it's disappointing, I really do. But, they don't want to write Gohan in the story. I've thought about it and I think they just don't know how to write Gohan into the story. His role was supposed to be taking over Goku's but now that that's not an option where does it leave him? Toriyama has made a character that's supposed to be smarter and much more powerful than Goku. Think about it, if Gohan stood up to the plate, where would that leave Goku and Vegeta? In the dust. Goku is the main character and he's supposed to be special and winning all the major battles. However that wouldn't make any sense if he had an ally that's much stronger than him. You can't keep making Gohan make the same mistake of getting cocky either because then it's just disrespectful to the character. I mean, he's supposed to be smart ffs. It worked when he was a kid, but not anymore. Akira Toriyama has an amazing way of tying things together, and he was able to use the fact that Gohan wanted to be a scholar (honestly, when he first wrote that he probably just thought it would be funny to have the son of Goku wanting to be a scholar) as a way of sidelining him for good. I think Akira jsut regrets making the half saiyans at this point. With Future Trunks, it's much easier to write him into the story. Even if he does surpass Goku and Vegeta, he's going to be there for like one arc and then leave. They don't have to worry about anything. That's at least how I see it.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
Just look to Trunks guys. He's essentially what a lot of people were looking for in Gohan. He's not exactly what I wanted, but he's more then welcome in the third slot with Goku and Vegeta. His motivation is pretty much what people wanted out of Gohan too, and what Toei pretty much abandoned. He looks to want to save the future and settle with a family, but I doubt he'd go full Gohan and just not give a shit. I know people wanted Gohan, but I think Trunks has shown he can fill that void somewhat. I don't feel as bad about Gohan as Trunks is filling that void pretty nicely.
It's unfortunate Future Trunks and Present Trunks haven't gotten way more time like they should have together though. A time where Goten and Trunks have something great for their characters, and it doesn't happen with F. Trunks. Instead he kinda just replaces Trunks as essentially, better Trunks. There's still time though, but it should have been a bigger part of the story I think.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:Just look to Trunks guys. He's essentially what a lot of people were looking for in Gohan. He's not exactly what I wanted, but he's more then welcome in the third slot with Goku and Vegeta. His motivation is pretty much what people wanted out of Gohan too, and what Toei pretty much abandoned. He looks to want to save the future and settle with a family, but I doubt he'd go full Gohan and just not give a shit. I know people wanted Gohan, but I think Trunks has shown he can fill that void somewhat. I don't feel as bad about Gohan as Trunks is filling that void pretty nicely.
It's unfortunate Future Trunks and Present Trunks haven't gotten way more time like they should have together though. A time where Goten and Trunks have something great for their characters, and it doesn't happen with F. Trunks. Instead he kinda just replaces Trunks as essentially, better Trunks. There's still time though, but it should have been a bigger part of the story I think.
Like I said, I think Future Trunks is being saved by the fact that he's not going to stay here for long.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
I am not one to think that the cast has necessarily been handled badly and I've expressed my opinions on why many times when the topic came about, however, with the new arc it's understandable why people would get more disappointed than before about it, seeing as how they've handled Future Trunks very very well, while still keeping him below Goku and Vegeta, which goes on to show that the writers could pretty much do it with other characters like Gohan, or Piccolo or whoever else, so it becomes that much more annoying that they don't use them to fill such a position. The matter, however, is that they don't want to, which in some ways is understandable, but I totally get seeing the fact that the story can tackle multiple protagonists and still be top quality is frustrating. I am lucky that Future Trunks and Piccolo are in my top 3 favorites, so one getting a whole arc of importance and the other being thrown a bone in the last arc satisfies me enough, but for fans of Gohan, Goten and Trunks or others it's rougher than that. On the other hand, I also don't think if Toriyama or Toei don't want to write for such characters they shouldn't just give in to fan demand, as writing without passion for such a thing might not result in the best story possible.
dbzfan7 wrote:His motivation is pretty much what people wanted out of Gohan too,
Why the heck would Gohan have Trunks' motivation? Trunks doesn't fight for fighting sake. He fights to survive. So would Gohan if he were in Trunks' shoes. But he isn't, so there's no valid reason to expect that. I'm glad Toriyama is not changing Gohan's character to pander certain fans.
dbzfan7 wrote:His motivation is pretty much what people wanted out of Gohan too,
Why the heck would Gohan have Trunks' motivation? Trunks doesn't fight for fighting sake. He fights to survive. So would Gohan if he were in Trunks' shoes. But he isn't, so there's no valid reason to expect that. I'm glad Toriyama is not changing Gohan's character to pander certain fans.
No they mean fight for other peoples sake. Trunks doesn't fight because he wants to or likes to, but because to protect others. Hell during peace time he stilled put in time to train anyways just in case, which paid off when Babidi and Dabura showed up.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:His motivation is pretty much what people wanted out of Gohan too,
Why the heck would Gohan have Trunks' motivation? Trunks doesn't fight for fighting sake. He fights to survive. So would Gohan if he were in Trunks' shoes. But he isn't, so there's no valid reason to expect that. I'm glad Toriyama is not changing Gohan's character to pander certain fans.
No they mean fight for other peoples sake. Trunks doesn't fight because he wants to or likes to, but because to protect others. Hell during peace time he stilled put in time to train anyways just in case, which paid off when Babidi and Dabura showed up.
Do we have confirmation on that? Didn't Kaioshin train him?
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
dbzfan7 wrote:His motivation is pretty much what people wanted out of Gohan too,
Why the heck would Gohan have Trunks' motivation? Trunks doesn't fight for fighting sake. He fights to survive. So would Gohan if he were in Trunks' shoes. But he isn't, so there's no valid reason to expect that. I'm glad Toriyama is not changing Gohan's character to pander certain fans.
No they mean fight for other peoples sake. Trunks doesn't fight because he wants to or likes to, but because to protect others. Hell during peace time he stilled put in time to train anyways just in case, which paid off when Babidi and Dabura showed up.
Yep, but in the future, Trunks is the only fighter left. He has no other choice. Gohan, on the other hand, can just leave it all to Goku and Vegeta.
"The life is the hardest video games of ever. Because you have only one life and the powers are kinda lame. And sometimes a stage takes years"
"The life is a game, the objective of the game is trying to find the objective of the game, and then, finish the game"
--by Ranely Jr
kinisking wrote:Do we have confirmation on that? Didn't Kaioshin train him?
That was mistranslated and corrected by Herms. Future Trunks received instructions from Kaioshin, not training, to overcome his difficult encounter with Future Bobbidi and Future Dabra.
12:09 | Goku: "So what happened in the future?" 12:11 | Vegeta: "Was it Majin Boo?" 12:13 | Future Trunks: "No, Majin Boo's emergence was... It was an extremely difficult battle. However, I had received instructions from Kaioshin-sama. And so I somehow managed to defeat both Dabra and Bobbidi, and prevent Majin Boo from emerging. But then after that, an even more fearsome foe appeared."
Significance: Reveals that Dabra and Babidi appeared in Trunks' time. Notably, Trunks claims to have received "instructions" from Kaioshin, rather than simply "training".
Last edited by Nejishiki on Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Luso Saiyan wrote:
Why the heck would Gohan have Trunks' motivation? Trunks doesn't fight for fighting sake. He fights to survive. So would Gohan if he were in Trunks' shoes. But he isn't, so there's no valid reason to expect that. I'm glad Toriyama is not changing Gohan's character to pander certain fans.
No they mean fight for other peoples sake. Trunks doesn't fight because he wants to or likes to, but because to protect others. Hell during peace time he stilled put in time to train anyways just in case, which paid off when Babidi and Dabura showed up.
Do we have confirmation on that? Didn't Kaioshin train him?
Sandubadear wrote:Yep, but in the future, Trunks is the only fighter left. He has no other choice. Gohan, on the other hand, can just leave it all to Goku and Vegeta.
I'm not making a case for Gohan coming back. Hell I'm making a case where people can put Gohan behind them and stop getting upset. I'm saying Trunks essentially has the motivation people wanted Gohan to follow through with. The one he teased at the end of the F arc. Though really Trunks does have a choice, and could just leave things up to Goku and Vegeta, but chooses not to. They even address that, and Vegeta gets furious.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I mean, Trunks and Episode 54 at least gives them the precedent to bring back any supporting cast member if they so feel like it. I doubt they will, but at least they're addressing these issues.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.
MozillaVulpix wrote:I mean, Trunks and Episode 54 at least gives them the precedent to bring back any supporting cast member if they so feel like it. I doubt they will, but at least they're addressing these issues.
My taking point is maybe to just appreciate Trunks in the role Gohan fans kinda wanted. That's pretty much it. Let em have something in the form of Trunks. Unless of course, people don't want those fans having any small kind of victory through another character . It ain't about what he should be, but just that maybe someone else can fill that void and quota.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:
No they mean fight for other peoples sake. Trunks doesn't fight because he wants to or likes to, but because to protect others. Hell during peace time he stilled put in time to train anyways just in case, which paid off when Babidi and Dabura showed up.
Do we have confirmation on that? Didn't Kaioshin train him?
Sandubadear wrote:Yep, but in the future, Trunks is the only fighter left. He has no other choice. Gohan, on the other hand, can just leave it all to Goku and Vegeta.
I'm not making a case for Gohan coming back. Hell I'm making a case where people can put Gohan behind them and stop getting upset. I'm saying Trunks essentially has the motivation people wanted Gohan to follow through with. The one he teased at the end of the F arc. Though really Trunks does have a choice, and could just leave things up to Goku and Vegeta, but chooses not to. They even address that, and Vegeta gets furious.
Nice! Good job on Trunks.
Episode 54 really irked me because it shows that the writers are being stupid with Gohan. Vegeta needs to give Gohan that message. I mean if Gohan was exactly like the Gohan we knew (and also the one in 27) he would have realized it by now but whatever.
My taking point is maybe to just appreciate Trunks in the role Gohan fans kinda wanted. That's pretty much it. Let em have something in the form of Trunks. Unless of course, people don't want those fans having any small kind of victory through another character . It ain't about what he should be, but just that maybe someone else can fill that void and quota.
It's something
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
Sandubadear wrote:Yep, but in the future, Trunks is the only fighter left. He has no other choice. Gohan, on the other hand, can just leave it all to Goku and Vegeta.
I'm not making a case for Gohan coming back. Hell I'm making a case where people can put Gohan behind them and stop getting upset. I'm saying Trunks essentially has the motivation people wanted Gohan to follow through with. The one he teased at the end of the F arc. Though really Trunks does have a choice, and could just leave things up to Goku and Vegeta, but chooses not to. They even address that, and Vegeta gets furious.
Nice! Good job on Trunks.
Episode 54 really irked me because it shows that the writers are being stupid with Gohan. Vegeta needs to give Gohan that message. I mean if Gohan was exactly like the Gohan we knew (and also the one in 27) he would have realized it by now but whatever.
My taking point is maybe to just appreciate Trunks in the role Gohan fans kinda wanted. That's pretty much it. Let em have something in the form of Trunks. Unless of course, people don't want those fans having any small kind of victory through another character . It ain't about what he should be, but just that maybe someone else can fill that void and quota.
It's something
I'm not really interested in discussing what he should and shouldn't be. That's a discussion that's been beaten into the ground enough. I merely make a little comparison as to ease the disappointment of some people, by letting another character attempt to fill that void. Trunks qualities are while not the same as Gohan, about the closest you'll get, without being some form of clone like some other characters are. So unlike other characters, Trunks fills the very loosely familiar, without being a grating 2.0 version.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Sandubadear wrote:Yep, but in the future, Trunks is the only fighter left. He has no other choice. Gohan, on the other hand, can just leave it all to Goku and Vegeta.
I'm not making a case for Gohan coming back. Hell I'm making a case where people can put Gohan behind them and stop getting upset. I'm saying Trunks essentially has the motivation people wanted Gohan to follow through with. The one he teased at the end of the F arc. Though really Trunks does have a choice, and could just leave things up to Goku and Vegeta, but chooses not to. They even address that, and Vegeta gets furious.
Nice! Good job on Trunks.
Episode 54 really irked me because it shows that the writers are being stupid with Gohan. Vegeta needs to give Gohan that message. I mean if Gohan was exactly like the Gohan we knew (and also the one in 27) he would have realized it by now but whatever.
My taking point is maybe to just appreciate Trunks in the role Gohan fans kinda wanted. That's pretty much it. Let em have something in the form of Trunks. Unless of course, people don't want those fans having any small kind of victory through another character . It ain't about what he should be, but just that maybe someone else can fill that void and quota.
It's something
Since when has Gohan listened to Vegeta? And if after all that has happened, Gohan doesn't want to train seriously, Vegeta being a hardass on won't do it. It works on Trunks since he has reason to get stronger.
As for Piccolo, he's been out of his league before and still hung around. So he has far less excuse than Gohan who is purposely left in the dark. His dad nearly getting killed is literally only known to those at Capsule Corp, and I haven't seen Gohan there.
Last edited by HeroR on Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
kinisking wrote:
I know it's disappointing, I really do. But, they don't want to write Gohan in the story. I've thought about it and I think they just don't know how to write Gohan into the story. His role was supposed to be taking over Goku's but now that that's not an option where does it leave him? Toriyama has made a character that's supposed to be smarter and much more powerful than Goku. Think about it, if Gohan stood up to the plate, where would that leave Goku and Vegeta? In the dust. Goku is the main character and he's supposed to be special and winning all the major battles. However that wouldn't make any sense if he had an ally that's much stronger than him. You can't keep making Gohan make the same mistake of getting cocky either because then it's just disrespectful to the character. I mean, he's supposed to be smart ffs. It worked when he was a kid, but not anymore. Akira Toriyama has an amazing way of tying things together, and he was able to use the fact that Gohan wanted to be a scholar (honestly, when he first wrote that he probably just thought it would be funny to have the son of Goku wanting to be a scholar) as a way of sidelining him for good. I think Akira jsut regrets making the half saiyans at this point. With Future Trunks, it's much easier to write him into the story. Even if he does surpass Goku and Vegeta, he's going to be there for like one arc and then leave. They don't have to worry about anything. That's at least how I see it.
Gohan was only shown to be smarter than Goku in education. In a fighting sense, he had always been subpar. Gohan is basically dumb muscle compared to Goku when it comes to fighting.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
dbzfan7 wrote:My taking point is maybe to just appreciate Trunks in the role Gohan fans kinda wanted. That's pretty much it. Let em have something in the form of Trunks. Unless of course, people don't want those fans having any small kind of victory through another character . It ain't about what he should be, but just that maybe someone else can fill that void and quota.
I'm normally optimistic, but I don't think that's something to be happy about. Future Trunks coming back is actually hindering the idea of Gohan returning. They could have left the option open, but they've now essentially done an arc about a side character returning, even if they're not that strong. Now they've used up that idea. They most likely aren't going to do it again.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.
. It ain't about what he should be, but just that maybe someone else can fill that void and quota.
