Who is Stronger Questions

[Dayspring]

No, the most logical answer to what would happen (if we were watching it for the first time) would be that he would revert to who he was before he absorbed Good Buu.

Since that didn`t happen and it was not explained at all in the series, we are forced to find theories on exactly why that was the case (I have my own, you have your own, etc).

It only starts to make sense after we come up with a personal theory that somehow explains it.

Thats why I stated that logically it didn`t make sense, but I have my theory to explain it and make it logical. Get it?

I understand but disagree. There's lots of evidence showing what Skinny did to Mr Boo is not Absorption-Assimilation: Mr goes in differently, Skinny transforms differently, Super Boo's strength increases differently, Super Boo warns he won't be himself anymore if Mr Boo is pulled out. From this, we know that Digestion-Assimilation is not the same as Absorption-Assimilation. So yes, pulling someone out causes the opposite of Absorption-Assimilation, meaning a straight subtraction, but we don't know for a fact that Digestion-Assimilation is straight addition. If anything, the increase in Super Boo's strength proves that it's not, and therefore logically Super Boo - Mr Boo should be something greater than Skinny Boo. It's only up to theories to explain why Buff Boo became stronger than Super Boo instead of weaker.

EDIT: In other words, here's the logic to follow:

1) Using Absorption-Assimilation, Super Boo should be equal to Fat Boo, as it would be a simple addition of Mr Boo's strength to Skinny Boo. There should also just be a change in form and intellect of Skinny Boo, not a completely new Boo.

2) Using Digestion-Assimilation, Super Boo has a strength greater than the sum of Skinny + Mr. (Seen in manga)

3) Using the opposite of Absorption-Assimilation to remove Mr Boo should result in a straight subtraction of Mr Boo from Super Boo.

4) Because Digestion-Assimilation resulted in Super Boo being "Mr + Skinny + X" instead of just Mr+Skinny, using the opposite of Absorption-Assimilation will mean that the removal of Mr Boo will be a Boo consisting of "Skinny + X" (this ends up being Buff Boo)

5) Because Buff Boo is the result of a straight subtraction of Mr Boo's strength from Super Boo's, Buff Boo should be weaker than Super Boo. (DOES NOT HAPPEN; LOGIC ERROR IS HERE)

6) Because the Southern Kaioshin can only exist in either Mr Boo OR Buff Boo, one should immediately transform upon being separated.

7) If Mr Boo doesn't have Southern Kaioshin inside him, he'll transform into something we haven't seen yet. If Buff Boo doesn't have Southern Kaioshin inside him, he'll transform into Kid Boo.

[jjgp1112]

So basically, Super Buu is sort of like Fat Buu in reverse, right?

[Dayspring]

So basically, Super Buu is sort of like Fat Buu in reverse, right?

That's how I would explain why Buff Boo is stronger than Super Boo, yes, but it still doesn't quite explain why Skinny eating Mr creates Super Boo. If Buff Boo ate Mr Boo, or if Super Boo were weaker than Skinny, then it would work perfectly.

1)Fat Boo (10) - Skinny Boo (6) = Mr Boo (4)

2) Skinny Boo (6) + Mr Boo (4) = Super Boo (12)

3) Super Boo (12) - Mr Boo (4) = Buff Boo (16)

Steps 2 and 3 don't make any sense, but step 3 can be explained as being another case of of Buff Boo absorbing a purely good person and having his strength suppressed as a result (only in reverse). Because Mr Boo isn't Dai Kaioshin exactly, rather than become Fat Boo, Buff Boo + Mr Boo = Super Boo.

So I know a lot of people want to say that logically, Super - Mr should be Skinny, since that's how he went in, but something clearly different occured in the assimilation process by being eaten, as opposed to absorbed by "Boo flesh." Super Boo's Strength = Mr Boo's Strength + Skinny Boo's Strength + Random Extra Strength. Mr Boo is removed the same way the others are, so it should be just a simple subtraction. But a simple subtraction from that equation means that Super Boo, without Mr Boo in him, should be something with the total strength of "Skinny Boo's Strength + Random Extra Strength." This is where Buff Boo comes in.

So basically:
A) Fat - Skinny = Mr
B) Skinny + Mr = Super Boo = Fat's strength + Extra strength
C) Skinny = (Super - Mr) = (Fat - Mr ) + Extra strength
D) Skinny = Buff = Skinny + Extra Strength

Things get F'ed up because of the different assimilation in B).

[Xyex]

No, the most logical answer to what would happen (if we were watching it for the first time) would be that he would revert to who he was before he absorbed Good Buu.

Since that didn`t happen and it was not explained at all in the series, we are forced to find theories on exactly why that was the case (I have my own, you have your own, etc).

It only starts to make sense after we come up with a personal theory that somehow explains it.

Thats why I stated that logically it didn`t make sense, but I have my theory to explain it and make it logical. Get it?

It does make logical sense, actually. The problem isn't that it's illogical, the problem is that you're comparing apples to oranges by comparing Buu eating Buu to Buu absorbing someone else. No one else that Buu ate merged with him. No one else Buu merged with caused the same kind of transformation to occur.

It's actually quite clear that what we saw was not absorption as we know it by way of Super Buu. It's only because we saw a version of Mr. Buu inside of Super Buu that people think it's the same. But the fact that everything else was different is proof it's not. And what's more, even if it were the same, it would still be illogical for the removal of Mr. Buu to cause Super Buu to revert to Evil Buu.

Why? Because Evil Buu was merely Fat Buu's evil given a body. When Mr. Buu was removed, taking with it the Kaioshins, that would result in Super Buu's reverting back to its pure form. That being Kid Buu. It would be illogical to revert to Evil Buu because Evil Buu was not only an artificial creation, but the evil side of the Fat Buu, and the Fat Buu just got yanked out.

So, effectively, Super Buu is Kid Buu + Fat Buu.

1)Fat Boo (10) - Skinny Boo (6) = Mr Boo (4)

2) Skinny Boo (6) + Mr Boo (4) = Super Boo (12)

3) Super Boo (12) - Mr Boo (4) = Buff Boo (16)

I think the problem is you're doing a 1:1 transfer, and that you're not including Kid Buu and thus not seeing the effects of the Dai Kaioshin on Buu. If you avoid those two problems it works out just fine. Example:

Step 1: Kid Buu(10) + South Kaioshin(5) = Buff Buu(15)
- Kid Buu absorbs South Kaioshin and gets his power, just as with Super Buu and everyone he absorbed.

Step 2: Buff Buu(15) + Dai Kaioshin(3(-8)) = Fat Buu(7).
- Buff Buu absorbs the Dai Kaioshin and his purity negates the power gained from the South Kaioshin as well as reducing Kid Buu's power by an amount equal to the Dai Kaioshin's power.

Step 3: Fat Buu(7) - Skinny Buu(4) = Mr. Buu(3)
- Fat Buu expels the evil in him, leaving him with just the good parts.

Step 4: Skinny Buu(4) + Mr. Buu(3) + South Kaioshin(5) = Super Buu(12)
- Skinny reintegrates Mr. Buu into his being, shifting things around and negating part of the Dai Kaioshin's influence. Namely, the part where he prevents access to the South Kaioshin's power. The Dai Kaioshin's purity is still reducing Buu's over all power, however.

Step 5: Super Buu(12) - Dai Kaioshin(3(-3)) = Buff Buu(15)

Step 6: Buff Buu(15) - South Kaioshin(5) = Kid Buu(10)

[jjgp1112]

The way I see it, it goes like this:

-Kid Buu: The original Buu. No absorptions, no restraints. Just a complete madman
-Buff Buu: Kid Buu after absorbing South Supreme Kai. He gains immense strength and is smarter
-Fat Buu: Buff Buu after absorbing Dai Kaioshin. Because of Dai Kaioshin's pure, innocent nature, Buu actually loses strength because the evil is being held back by good.
-Evil Buu: The evil from Fat Buu manifesting itself into a body.
-Mr. Buu: Fat Buu without his evil nature.
-Super Buu: Fat Buu's evil half after eating and storing away Mr. Buu, Fat Buu's good half. Thus, he's Kid Buu with South Supreme Kai and Dai Kaioshin absorbed, but with the evil being dominant now instead of the good. However, he isn't quite as strong as Buff Buu because he still has some good in him. Basically Fat Buu in reverse. If Mr. Buu would've eaten Evil Buu, he would be back to his normal self.

[jackjack]

My two cents:
Kid Boo + Kais = Fat Boo = Evil Boo (Kid) + Good Boo (Kais) = Super Boo = Kid Boo + Good Boo

Gohan Boo: 45
Gotenks Boo: 38
Mystic Gohan: 27
Buff Boo: 20
SSJ3 Gotenks: 20
Super Boo: 18 (overall power = Buff = Evil + Good)
SSJ3 Goku: 12
Kid Boo: 12
Evil Boo: 12
SSJ Gotenks: 10
Fat Boo: 10 (overall power = Buff = Evil + Good)
Good Boo: 8

[Dayspring]

1)Fat Boo (10) - Skinny Boo (6) = Mr Boo (4)

2) Skinny Boo (6) + Mr Boo (4) = Super Boo (12)

3) Super Boo (12) - Mr Boo (4) = Buff Boo (16)

I think the problem is you're doing a 1:1 transfer, and that you're not including Kid Buu and thus not seeing the effects of the Dai Kaioshin on Buu. If you avoid those two problems it works out just fine.

I actually am, I'm just having problems phrasing it.

Here's how I see it:

There was nothing separating Buff Boo from Dai Kaioshin's suppression factor, so Buff Boo + Dai Kaioshin = Fat Boo. Fat Boo - Skinny Boo = Mr Boo. If Mr Boo were to assimilate Skinny, he would rebecome Fat Boo. However, the same is not the case in reverse, because Dai Kaioshin is inside Mr Boo, separating Skinny Boo a bit from Dai Kaioshin. So if being directly assimilated means a suppression factor of 5, being indirectly assimilated would mean a suppression factor of 3. Kind of like Mr Boo being to Dai Kaioshin as a thermos is to hot coffee; there's still heat passing through, but it's nowhere near as hot as touching the coffee itself (the "heat" would be Dai Kaioshin's suppresion factor). The result is as follows:

1) Super Boo = Fat Boo - Some Dai Kaioshin Suppression = Fat Boo + Extra Strength

As we know, Fat Boo is both of the following:
A) Fat Boo = Buff Boo + All Dai Kaioshin Suppression
B) Fat Boo = Mr Boo + Skinny Boo

So since removing Mr Boo from Super Boo got us Buff Boo, we know this is what happpened:

2) Super Boo - Mr Boo = (Buff Boo + All Dai Kaioshin Suppression) + Extra Strength - Mr Boo = Buff Boo

Thus, Mr Boo = All Dai Kaioshin Suppression + Extra Strength, which is why we have Buff Boo instead of Skinny Boo.

So, effectively, Super Buu is Kid Buu + Fat Buu.

I dunno. That would mean that South Kaioshin is stronger than Fat Boo.

[Xyex]

So, effectively, Super Buu is Kid Buu + Fat Buu.

I dunno. That would mean that South Kaioshin is stronger than Fat Boo.

I wasn't talking about power wise, there. More in the 'genetic make-up' aspect. He's Kid + Fat as opposed to being Evil + Good, which a lot of people try to put him as. It's a physical thing, not a power thing. Just like how Buff Buu is Kid Buu + South Kaioshin. It's why pulling Fat Buu out of him turns him back to Kid Buu.

I think perhaps the easiest way to explain the Fat Buu/Evil Buu/Super Buu thing is, when explaining Fat Buu being absorbed, ignore Buu. What I mean is, instead of something like Evil Buu + Mr. Buu = Super Buu count Mr. Buu as the Kais instead. So it would be Evil Buu + South Kaioshin + Dai Kaioshin, with Dai Kaioshin being a negative effect. Because after Fat Buu expels the evil in him, Mr. Buu is effectively the Dai Kaioshin and the South Kaioshin merged into one being with Buu powers.

[hleV]

Super Buu reverting to Kid Buu instead of Evil Buu is probably due to something that Super (or Evil) Buu has done by managing Mr. Buu inside him.

Super Buu was really scared when Goku and Vegeta intended to remove the bond of Mr. Buu and Super Buu. That suggests that Super Buu knew that removing Mr. Buu, which most likely contained the useful things for Super Buu, would result in the destruction of Super Buu, thus the revival of the pure original Buu.

Mr. Buu, being kept inside Kid Buu, despite the bond between the two removed, still affected some of Kid Buu's mind, preventing him to annihilate Mr. Satan. However, Kid Buu was smart enough to spit Mr. Buu out.

[caejones]

Well, since everyone's doing it...

The Skinny Buu has a cape. .
That implies the influence of the Kaioshin is still in there--he's not "Buu"'s evil, but Fat Buu's evil.
When the good half got eaten, the Kaioshin influence got dumped into him. So we have a Kaioshin-free Buu who draws upon his still Buu-wrapped Kaioshin victims a bit.
So the Mr. Buu that comes out of Super is basically the two Kaioshin turned to bubblegum.

The issue is still how Buff Buu appeared at all, and how that form could be stronger than Super Buu. Blargblargblargblarg.

[Bussani]

The issue is still how Buff Buu appeared at all, and how that form could be stronger than Super Buu. Blargblargblargblarg.

To be fair, there's nothing in the manga that actually says Buu + Absorbee = sum of Buu and Absorbee. We know that absorbing someone can actually make him weaker because of Dai Kaioshin's influence. It's also possible that absorbing people could make him stronger than the sum of the two.

For one thing, ki is very dependent on the mind of the person, and Buu's personality definitely changes when he absorbs people. When you create a whole new personality, guessing the strength of this new character probably isn't as simple as just adding their two powers together. On the other side, we can also take the physical changes into account. When Fat Buu became Super Buu, Piccolo notes that his body has become one suited for combat. We also know that even though small characters can be insanely strong, bulking their muscles up usually makes them even stronger. As such, Buff Buu's extra strength may simply come from his massive body, based on the burly body of South Kaioshin.

Basically, I think there's more to it than this + this = that. But it's enough to say, "Strong Guy + Strong Guy = Really Strong Guy," most of the time.