Toriko Takes DBK's Slot On April 3 (Kai Ends with Cell)

[Kendamu]

I don't know if this means anything important, but just yesterday a brand new trailer for the "DragonBall Heroes" arcade game was released, and it focuses mainly on the Buu arc!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPwStGsVUbo
Now, I don't know if this is going to lead to some speculation, but could this trailer possibly confirm the existence of the Buu arc for Kai? Granted this is just footage for a video game, but I think this might shed some light on the whole "OMG KAI IS BEING CANCELLED ZOMFG!!1" rumor that has been going around since the announcement of Toriko.

I don't think it's indicative of anything except what it advertises: a game.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

I don't know if this means anything important, but just yesterday a brand new trailer for the "DragonBall Heroes" arcade game was released, and it focuses mainly on the Buu arc!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPwStGsVUbo
Now, I don't know if this is going to lead to some speculation, but could this trailer possibly confirm the existence of the Buu arc for Kai? Granted this is just footage for a video game, but I think this might shed some light on the whole "OMG KAI IS BEING CANCELLED ZOMFG!!1" rumor that has been going around since the announcement of Toriko.

What?! This may just be the most desperate grasp for proof that DBK going through with the Majin Boo arc. DragonBall Hero's and DragonBall Kai are two seperate entities. This means nothing!

I do love new DragonBall non-CGI animation, so thanks for that at least!

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Actually it says a lot. They may be two seperate entities but why would they advertise the Buu arc if they weren't going to show it. Yes Dragonball is a familiar franchise in Japan but while the show ended in America five years ago, it's been dead in Japan for fifteen years. The people that knew who Buu was are far past the targeted demographic for this game and Kai. Those kids, the one's who love Kai, are going to want to see the Buu saga. This game, on top of the new CD cover, show some proof that the Buu saga is coming. They might get a different time slot, hell it might just go to DVD/Blu-ray, but it's coming. They aren't going to just stop at the Cell saga.

Also another thought occurred to me. Aren't the people that do these 2D animations from the same studio who actually work on the anime? Why would they get the green light to do animations for this game(and the DS one) involving the Buu saga if they weren't going to finish the anime? Wouldn't someone have said, "oh hey we can't afford to move on we are stopping at Cell so lets avoid involving Buu in any of the artwork." I'd say that's a fair assumption to make. I don't think Toei would allow another company to bring attention to what will eventually be a HUGE disappointment to the fans of Kai.

[VegettoEX]

They're not advertising the Buu arc for "Kai" -- they're advertising Buu stuff for "Dragon Ball Heroes". Which is a game. In its own world. With its own stuff. Which also has movie crap in it.

C'mon, folks. Stop looking for these gross stretches that really don't help one way or the other. If and when we know something about "Kai", you can rest assured EVERYONE will know. Blind delusion that just because it's DragonBall means it's going to play out in its favor is just that -- blind delusion.

Anyone else remember 1997-2001? Anyone? Bueller?

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

They're not advertising the Buu arc for "Kai" -- they're advertising Buu stuff for "Dragon Ball Heroes". Which is a game. In its own world. With its own stuff. Which also has movie crap in it.

C'mon, folks. Stop looking for these gross stretches that really don't help one way or the other. If and when we know something about "Kai", you can rest assured EVERYONE will know. Blind delusion that just because it's DragonBall means it's going to play out in its favor is just that -- blind delusion.

Anyone else remember 1997-2001? Anyone? Bueller?

Did you just make a "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" reference?

Not to clear on what happened in Japan from 97-2001 in Japan but the show ended then didn't it? So what's your point? Yes PS2 games were developed a few years later but you could argue that it was only a five year gap and that series was still fresh in peoples minds. On top of that, the games seemed to move with the American audience.

The point I'm trying to make is that(as far as I'm aware) the animation team that does all the TV sports for the games and whatnot are the same people who work on the show. Assuming I'm correct, why would Toei allow the same studio team to bring attention to one of their failures? Even if the games aren't related they are still putting Buu in the spotlight for commercials, and that's going to leave a lot of people asking questions. If Toei can't deliver, then they look really bad. I don't think they would want that. Yes, it's a game and they can't stop the developers from putting in all of the Z/GT/movie roster(or can they?) but I'd think they'd have enough smarts to say "hey can we not call attention to the Buu saga in commercials right now? We are having some financial difficulties and as a company we don't want to look bad."

Not to mention, there next album for the music has SSj2 Goku. This is something they are in full control of. I'd think they'd at least hide the fact that the Buu saga isn't coming with there own merchandise(opting to instead do a full shot of the Z warriors with the villains in the Background...you know the usual).

Even if the show doesn't continue on the air(which is possible) I still think they have plans to finish the series on DVD/Blu-ray. With the sales they are making off of the home releases; the comissions they see from licensing rights in toys and video games; the English releases; plus other national releases(Mexico is doing a release and it sounds like Ocean has the ok too) I think they have enough cash to finish the series.

[DNA]

Yeah I'm pretty sure VegettoEX is referring to the great Dragon Ball drought of 1997-2001. There was absolutely nothing Dragon Ball related for 5 years and then a new boom in the series appeared that's lasting until today. But it honestly feels like we might be approaching a new dry era... The games are flopping, the series is flopping... I just hope that doesn't affect Funimations sales and releases because unfortunately Funimations Dragon Boxes are my only way to get my DVD fix.

[VegettoEX]

You're still arguing from emotion and not logically examining things.

If "Kai" goes off TV, you will NOT see a home-release-only. It just won't happen. Those things sell like crap. That's not enough to self-sustain itself.

So what if the animators who do the commercials for "Dragon Ball Heroes" maybe happen to also do stuff on "Kai"...? What does that have to do with anything, other than you looking for a stretch to justify why there may be a Buu arc in "Kai"...? It draws attention to their failures...? It'll make them look bad...? What on EARTH are you talking about? That stuff has existed as "Z" for two decades, so it's not like it's totally foreign to anyone.

You seem to be under the impression that if they don't do the Buu arc, legions of children will appear at Toei headquarters demanding answers.

Well, uhh... if the general population cares about it so little that it leads to the series being canceled, no-one's going to be showing up looking for answers... because no-one cares to go ask.

Again, we don't know. We just don't. All the crap you're spewing about this is the weakest bunch of arguments that's been thrown into the mix so far, and it's not helping anything at all.

At the end of the day, money is the only thing that matters. The series sells like crap, the merchandise has been going down the drain (with CONSTANT readjustments downward in terms of projected sales), and the only thing saving the franchise at all is international licensing. Is that enough to cover it? Who knows?

We will in April.

[JulieYBM]

Not to mention, if Spike can tell Toei "Here's several hundred thousand dollars, animate an OVA for us!" Toei's going to do it. Dimps (I assume) went to Toei and said "We need about a minute of new animation for this promo, here's the money." What does anyone think Toei is going to do...?

[MetaMoss]

IMHO, if Kai were to be canceled at the end of Cell, I would like to see FUNimation and the other companies in charge of dubbing this would commission Toei to complete the series for the international releases, especially since how well Kai is doing in the U.S. right now (but still not seeing related merchandise at stores [except for bookstores and this DB Evolution figure, which I died a little when seeing]... that's kinda a dumb move). Then since Toei would have the animation done if my scenario went down, they might do something with it... What do you think, Mike?

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

You're still arguing from emotion and not logically examining things.

If "Kai" goes off TV, you will NOT see a home-release-only. It just won't happen. Those things sell like crap. That's not enough to self-sustain itself.

So what if the animators who do the commercials for "Dragon Ball Heroes" maybe happen to also do stuff on "Kai"...? What does that have to do with anything, other than you looking for a stretch to justify why there may be a Buu arc in "Kai"...? It draws attention to their failures...? It'll make them look bad...? What on EARTH are you talking about? That stuff has existed as "Z" for two decades, so it's not like it's totally foreign to anyone.

You seem to be under the impression that if they don't do the Buu arc, legions of children will appear at Toei headquarters demanding answers.

Well, uhh... if the general population cares about it so little that it leads to the series being canceled, no-one's going to be showing up looking for answers... because no-one cares to go ask.

Again, we don't know. We just don't. All the crap you're spewing about this is the weakest bunch of arguments that's been thrown into the mix so far, and it's not helping anything at all.

At the end of the day, money is the only thing that matters. The series sells like crap, the merchandise has been going down the drain (with CONSTANT readjustments downward in terms of projected sales), and the only thing saving the franchise at all is international licensing. Is that enough to cover it? Who knows?

We will in April.

What exactly are the DVD/Blu-ray sales figures? I know the games are tanking but I was under the impression Kai was doing fairly well ratings wise in Japan. Not to mention Kai seems to be picking up some popularity over here in the US as well. It's nowhere near the Z level of popularity from back in 2001 but it's got a following and it seems to be one of Nicktoons biggest shows.

Yes, I'm basing most of my argument over emotion but that's because, frankly, that's all we have to go on. There isn't much news of anything except that Toriko is taking over the spot Dragonball use to have. I don't know too much about Toriko but here are some questions:

-How long is Toriko?
-How do we know it's not just a one time thing?
-What's stopping the first episode from premiering at 9:30 one day and being moved to, lets say, 10am?
-What's stopping Dragonball from being bumped instead of canceled?
-Knowing the sales figures(cause I don't) how bad in the red is Toei?
-What's stopping Funimation from commissioning the Buu sales?


I really don't see the show just ending like some of you guys do. I mean I know there has been trouble but I don't think it's going to just die. Even with the bad sales, there are two arcade games that have been announced, one DS game, a 3DS game that is in "planning" and a shit load of hype coming from the west. I don't think DragonballKai is going to stop until it's finished. Quote me on it, hold me to it, hell make me eat my fucking boxers. That's how confident I am.

[Kendamu]

Do you prefer ketchup or mustard?

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Do you prefer ketchup or mustard?

Can BBQ sauce be an option, I will happily eat my boxers with BBQ sauce!

[JulieYBM]

-How long is Toriko?
-How do we know it's not just a one time thing?
-What's stopping the first episode from premiering at 9:30 one day and being moved to, lets say, 10am?
-What's stopping Dragonball from being bumped instead of canceled?
-Knowing the sales figures(cause I don't) how bad in the red is Toei?
-What's stopping Funimation from commissioning the Buu sales?

1. The Toriko comic is over one hundred chapters and still going strong. It's quite popular right now.
2. What, just one episode? No, this is going to be a new regular series. Toriko's also being paired with the One Piece 3D film coming out this year.
3. Toei has to buy the timeslot. For the past few years they have had the nine hour reserved. Toei would have to wait for whatever airs at ten to end.
4. Bad sales.
5. Anime News Network has home video sales. Dragon Ball Kai has only appeared once or twice and when it did it didn't place too high.
5. Lot's a money.

[VegettoEX]

Apologies for breaking my own rules and doing a bit of back-and-forthing, but people don't seem to want to jump back and read any of this stuff, so I'll collect a bit of it together in response.

What exactly are the DVD/Blu-ray sales figures?

They don't even rank anymore. There's nothing to even point to, they're so low.

but I was under the impression Kai was doing fairly well ratings wise in Japan

Ratings don't mean anything if the advertisers aren't making anything from it and the merchandise isn't supporting its production. The TV show is the throw-away product, created for the sole purpose of selling merchandise.

Not to mention Kai seems to be picking up some popularity over here in the US as well. It's nowhere near the Z level of popularity from back in 2001 but it's got a following and it seems to be one of Nicktoons biggest shows.

As I said, the international licensing is the only thing keeping the franchise going, it seems.

How long is Toriko?

You could easily look this up, too -- it's about a dozen volumes in and still going over in the manga.

How do we know it's not just a one time thing?

Because it's been announced as an on-going series for that time slot. Toriko also received its second quick feature alongside One Piece last Jump Festa, showcasing Toei's decision to start pimping the shows together (as would later be evidenced by the TV series' time slot).

What's stopping the first episode from premiering at 9:30 one day and being moved to, lets say, 10am?

See above.

What's stopping Dragonball from being bumped instead of canceled?

Nothing at all.

Knowing the sales figures(cause I don't) how bad in the red is Toei?

It's got nothing to do with Toei as a general whole company -- they can be doing fine, but if that one series isn't doing fine, why would they keep sinking money into it?

Domestically (in Japan), the DB franchise did ¥1228 million for Toei in Fiscal 2007, when it hits its peak (since at least 2004 when Hujio dug back). Since then, each year has been a dramatic decrease. Fiscal 2010 was down to ¥598 -- a full half of what it was doing just three years prior.

Speaking of finances (and earlier about merchandise), Namco-Bandai saw the DB franchise go from ¥15.8 billion in Fiscal 2009 to ¥12.5 billion in Fiscal 2010, with a forecast of around ¥8.5 billion in Fiscal 2011. There's a trend in the numbers there -- it goes down. That's for the franchise's merchandise as a whole, which includes toys and everything else. In terms of video games, none of the recent ones even placed on Namco-Bandai's last quarterly report... and they were released that quarter.

What's stopping Funimation from commissioning the Buu sales?

Who knows? They've certainly moved into the realm of co-production. Do they really have the cash reserve to handle that, though, in the midst of possibly being sold?

Look, I have absolutely zero vested interest in which way this goes. I really don't. It's not like I wasn't running this site long before Kai, and it's not like I won't be here years and years and years after Kai is done.

I'm just saying... just 'cuz it's DragonBall doesn't mean it's immune.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Ok, well...I have my boxers ready. I feel better now that I'm on the same page, but my gut still says the show will finish(I know; feelings not facts). I'll be watching the front page so expect a picture in this thread if Kai goes down; I'm a man of my word. Also, I'll go full geek. Playstation boxers all the way.

[MetaMoss]

Then we have to consider the Fuji TV Two airing of Kai that has recently been announced. Like I said on that thread, is it a last chance milking of the franchise or a sign of Toei and Fuji TV willing to spend money to air it and continue it (even on a satellite-only channel)? I could see a continued production over there, similar to in the UK Doctor Who airs it new episodes on (major broadcast channel) BBC 1, while it reruns and has its spin-off Torchwood air on (cable/satellite only) BBC 3. I know its not completely the same situation, but you get the point. If they don't do that, I have to say Toei is really cheap on its shows... And for FUNi not having the money because they're "for sale", I think Navarre has realized that, "OK, FUNimation has several shows airing that are doing well (Naruto Shippuden, DBZ Kai, Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood, and others), so maybe we should keep them and reap the benfits." Even then FUNi stills has cash from those shows to possibly continue Kai. But, as one of my favorite video game quotes goes:

Time will tell. Sooner or later, time will tell.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

Viz Media is the one who licensed Naruto Shippuden and not FUNimation, right?

[Taku128]

Domestically (in Japan), the DB franchise did ¥1228 million for Toei in Fiscal 2007, when it hits its peak (since at least 2004 when Hujio dug back). Since then, each year has been a dramatic decrease. Fiscal 2010 was down to ¥598 -- a full half of what it was doing just three years prior.

Is over $7,000,000 bad though? Just because it isn't doing as well as it used to doesn't mean it's doing poorly. I guess since I'm not running a major company I don't actually know, but that still seems like a lot of money.

[MetaMoss]

Viz Media is the one who licensed Naruto Shippuden and not FUNimation, right?

I don't even know anymore...

[jpdbzrulz4sure]

Viz Media is the one who licensed Naruto Shippuden and not FUNimation, right?

Right.