The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dbgtFO]

Yeah, it's best to just ignore Kaioshin. I mean if you think that since Kaioshin is afraid of Pui-Pui then Pui-Pui > Piccolo why not think Pui-Pui > SSjin 2 Gohan too? I think some guy back on MFG was actually crazy enough to believe THAT too. Exactly why Kaioshin shouldn't be taken seriously. Anyway,

There's always a different route. The whole Pui Pui sequnce was Kaioshin being amazed at base Saiyan strength. Before Goku's fight with Yakon he says:

Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.5
Context: after Vegeta and Goku talk about Dabra not being that great
Kaioshin: “Un-unbelievable. Is this ‘Super Saiyan’ thing really this great?...Come to think of it, it was quite hard to stop Son Gohan from moving after he became a Super Saiyan…And even that might not have been his full power…”

Kaioshin clearly establishes that Gohan at the tournament was the greatest power experienced up to that point and that the Super Saiyan thing might be greater than that, due to Goku and Vegeta saying they would own Dabra.

He later confirms it, when Goku momentarily surpasses the Super Saiyan wall:

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.4-5
Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…Wh…what a completely unbelievable fact…that I, Kaioshin, should be thrown into a panic by humans of the lower world…”

Kaioshin merely being cautious about Babidi's minions is probably the best logic, if you ask me. Ignoring him, when he's the one letting us know how amazing the Saiyans are to the point, where he thinks either one of them could pull out the legendary Z-Sword seems a little uncalled for.

Also I consider it more than likely that Babidi's minions(with the obvious exception of a not fully controlled Vegeta) don't emit ki anyways.

[CatouttaHell]

There's always a different route. The whole Pui Pui sequnce was Kaioshin being amazed at base Saiyan strength. Before Goku's fight with Yakon he says:

Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.5
Context: after Vegeta and Goku talk about Dabra not being that great
Kaioshin: “Un-unbelievable. Is this ‘Super Saiyan’ thing really this great?...Come to think of it, it was quite hard to stop Son Gohan from moving after he became a Super Saiyan…And even that might not have been his full power…”

Kaioshin clearly establishes that Gohan at the tournament was the greatest power experienced up to that point and that the Super Saiyan thing might be greater than that, due to Goku and Vegeta saying they would own Dabra.

He later confirms it, when Goku momentarily surpasses the Super Saiyan wall:

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.4-5
Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…Wh…what a completely unbelievable fact…that I, Kaioshin, should be thrown into a panic by humans of the lower world…”

Kaioshin merely being cautious about Babidi's minions is probably the best logic, if you ask me. Ignoring him, when he's the one letting us know how amazing the Saiyans are to the point, where he thinks either one of them could pull out the legendary Z-Sword seems a little uncalled for.

Interesting explanation, but Kaioshin still basically said they need to gang up on Yakon. It's possible that he had already met Yakon too since he seemed to know a lot about him, so he likely knew how strong he was. I mean I can understand being cautious but being THAT cautious? We know SSjin 2 Gohan = Dabura and since Kaioshin knew Dabura was Babidi's top guy I don't see why he'd be so scared that he said that all three of them need to gang up on Yakon despite the supposedly weakest of the three being on par with a guy who is way stronger than Yakon. He had already seen Gohan's SSjin 2 so he could've just said they should turn SSjin or something to win.

Also I consider it more than likely that Babidi's minions(with the obvious exception of a not fully controlled Vegeta) don't emit ki anyways.

Weren't Spopovich and Yamu not emitting Ki or whatever simply because Babidi's powerup seems to had rather adverse/strange effects on everyone?

[dbgtFO]

Well if Kaioshin doesn't know how strong Yakon is, it's obvious that he would go with the safer route by having everyone attack at once just in case.
And when Gohan was sensed at the tournament he wasn't surfacing his full power, which is what the Kaioshin also suggests with the above quote.
Like it has been stated/shown before your full power is first senseable, when you go all out or actively use it in a fight. The most recent example before Gohan at the tournament was when Gohan couldn't sense Videl, before she started fighting the robbers.

And the other quote I posted shows that Kaioshin realized why they were so confident. Because they could all put forth tremendous power, which goes to show that Goku's SSJ 2 burst was greater than the power Gohan was surfacing at the tournament.
But this is getting off-topic.

[Kirby456]

How about.

1. Kid Trunks Buu Saga Vs Adult Gohan Buu Saga

Id say Kid Trunks is a bit stronger since Gohan = Goten based on there fight. But Gohan is a better fight so id say he barley wins.

[Kirby456]

How about: Piccolo (End of Z) vs.

1. #16
2. Initial Semi-Perfect Cell
3. FP Semi-Perfect Cell
4. USSjin Vegeta
5. 50% SSjin Goku (Cell Games)
6. SSjin Goku (Cell Games)
7. FP Perfect Cell
8. SSjin Goku (Boo Arc)
9. Super Perfect Cell

Personally I think he would rape the first six, have a bit of trouble with FP Perfect Cell and probably win against SSjin Goku (Boo Arc) and Super Perfect Cell in two long, almost even battles.

I agree i think Piccolo will rape the first six. I think hell beat SPC in a very close battle. Heres why, After Goku died Piccolo stopped training because his rival was dead (Goku) unlike Vegeta who always trains and trained hardcore. After Goku returned Piccolo got the drive to keep training. Like a rival thing. Thats my opinion.

[dbgtFO]

It's probably in your best interests, if you edit youir posts instead of posting a new one only 3 minutes after your last one.

As for the fight, I have Gohan improving by a significant deal during his one month training, so Gohan easily beats Trunks.

[Kirby456]

It's probably in your best interests, if you edit youir posts instead of posting a new one only 3 minutes after your last one.

As for the fight, I have Gohan improving by a significant deal during his one month training, so Gohan easily beats Trunks.

Okay sure, thanks for the advice.

How about.

1. Pikkon Vs Perfect Cell (not Super Perfect)

I dont believe Pikkon was enywere near Supa Perfect Cell he just hit him by surprise. Id say Perfect Cell sounds much better, as he had a lead on Goku in power and Goku had gotten a ton Zenkai, plus Other world training.

[Piccolo Daimao]

1. Kid Trunks Buu Saga Vs Adult Gohan Buu Saga

I think that Gohan absolutely trashes Trunks, if he's not holding back. No matter what the Daizenshuu says, I don't think that Goten's as strong as Goten, because it makes no sense, and if you're basing it on that fight, I think it was clear that Gohan was simply surprised at Goten's strength. Are we going to say that base Goten is as strong as SSj Gohan because he barely dodged his rock?

1. Paikuhan Vs Perfect Cell (not Super Perfect)

I agree with you in that Paikuhan took Cell by surprise. I think he was just at the level he fought SSj Goku and SSj Gohan with, and nowhere near his Super Perfect level, since he certainly didn't look powered up like that.

From what I can recall of Goku and Paikuhan's fight, Paikuhan actually had the upper hand, even wtihout his tornado attack, and Goku only knocked him out of bounds because, I think, he teleported behind him and hit him off-guard with a Kamehameha. Going by this, I think that Paikuhan would be more or less around Cell's power, perhaps somewhat stronger. So Paikuhan would win.

[dbgtFO]

Are we going to say that base Goten is as strong as SSj Gohan because he barely dodged his rock?

No obviously not, but if you want to use it as a counter, you should probably go back and check up on it again. Gohan barely dodged that rock, because he hadn't been training at all, making him extremely rusty. He then told Goten to go farther back and after being warmed up, he could dodge rocks at close range, so no, Goten throwing rocks <<< SSJ Gohan.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Are we going to say that base Goten is as strong as SSj Gohan because he barely dodged his rock?

No obviously not, but if you want to use it as a counter, you should probably go back and check up on it again. Gohan barely dodged that rock, because he hadn't been training at all, making him extremely rusty. He then told Goten to go farther back and after being warmed up, he could dodge rocks at close range, so no, Goten throwing rocks <<< SSJ Gohan.

Yeah, I know that. I was just using it as an example. But there's nothing in the manga or elsewhere that suggests that Goten is as strong as Gohan, and I find the notion that he is absurd.

[dbgtFO]

But there's nothing in the manga or elsewhere that suggests that Goten is as strong as Gohan,

Daizenshuu 2 does:
"By virtue of being Goku's son, Goten posses battle power not the least bit inferior to even Gohan."
http://www.kanzentai.com/trans-daiz02.p ... ow_up#link

and I find the notion that he is absurd.

Perhaps it is, I myself really don't care, when it's already pretty absurd that he's that strong and can go Super Saiyan without even training one bit. Maybe this comes straight from Toriyama's notes or something? We'll probably never know..

[Kaboom]

That strikes me as being someone, somewhere, forgetting that not all Super Saiyans are created equal. Just being a Super Saiyan doesn't automatically make you as strong as every other Super Saiyan.

[Piccolo Daimao]

But there's nothing in the manga or elsewhere that suggests that Goten is as strong as Gohan,

Daizenshuu 2 does:
"By virtue of being Goku's son, Goten posses battle power not the least bit inferior to even Gohan."

I was talking about that in relation to the Daizenshuu. Apart from that (which isn't even a suggestion, just a statement), there's nothing in the manga or elsewhere that suggests that Goten is as strong as Gohan: only that ass-pulled statement from the Daizenshuu.

and I find the notion that he is absurd.

Perhaps it is, I myself really don't care, when it's already pretty absurd that he's that strong and can go Super Saiyan without even training one bit. Maybe this comes straight from Toriyama's notes or something? We'll probably never know..

Well, it makes no sense whatsoever for Goten to be as strong as Gohan. Just because he's a Super Saiyan doesn't mean he magically becomes as strong as his older brother. Furthermore, Goten being as strong as Gohan would mean that Trunks would be stronger than Gohan (since Trunks is stronger than Goten), which is even more absurd. The story doesn't support this notion, and nor do I.

[Kirby456]

1. Yamcha 23rd Budokai Vs Tambourine
2. Korin Vs King Piccolo Old

1. Id say Tambourine.
2. I'm going to say Korin, Goku stated him and King Piccolo were around the same level of power, this may be Anime only as i go by the anime. King Piccolo doesn't seem as good of a fighter as his son. For example he lost to Goku who had just one arm. So i think it will be a dead even battle but Korin will barley win.

On I side note: I believe that Goten is close or equal to Gohan. I agree with Cauotta Hell on Dabura/SSJ2 Gohan >>>> Piccolo Buu Saga > Kid Trunks SSJ > Gohan SSJ/Goten SSJ. Also in there battle Gohan and Goten were pretty even. I think actions speak louder then words.

[In Brightest Day]

Here comes another even Power Levels battle.


Z-Fighters:

- Piccolo (Post-Kami fusion)
- Kuririn (Cell arc)
- Yamcha (Cell arc)
- Chaozu (Cell arc)
- Tenshinhan (Cell arc).

vs.

GT-Fighters:

- Vegeta
- Super Uub
- Trunks
- Son Goten
- Son Gohan.


Rules:

- Power Levels are equal and thus Super Saiyan forms are banned

- Uub's Henka Beam is banned

- No killing is allowed.


Who wins and why?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Here comes another even Power Levels battle.


Z-Fighters:

- Piccolo (Post-Kami fusion)
- Kuririn (Cell arc)
- Yamcha (Cell arc)
- Chaozu (Cell arc)
- Tenshinhan (Cell arc).

vs.

GT-Fighters:

- Vegeta
- Super Uub
- Trunks
- Son Goten
- Son Gohan.


Rules:

- Power Levels are equal and thus Super Saiyan forms are banned

- Uub's Henka Beam is banned

- No killing is allowed.


Who wins and why?

Well, apart from maybe Vegeta, none of the GT-Fighters have much skill, if any at all, and mostly ride on power. Whereas the Z-Fighters all have skill. Piccolo and God were both once one single gifted martial artist, and since then, Piccolo (and God) has likely became much more adept in martial arts. Kuririn, Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu speak for themselves. All have been trained by extraordinary martial arts masters.

So the Z-Fighters would win.

[Rocketman]

At equal powers, Vegeta tanks the worst the Z fighters can throw at him. The other GT characters get stomped, though.

[In Brightest Day]

I will give Uub some credit here. He's trained under Son Goku for 10 years (correct me if I'm wrong) and I'm sure his training would have been skill based and not all about gaining power~! His fusion with Buu would have given have some nasty techniques, and if I was to hazard a guess it probably increased his durability too. Suffice it to say, Uub would be a threat.

While I've always thought Son Gohan was fairly overrated in the skill department, in his prime he was certainly competent and able to hold his own. It just depends on how rusty he is.

Trunks and Son Goten get taken out pretty quickly, I'd imagine.

[CatouttaHell]

1. Kid Trunks Buu Saga Vs Adult Gohan Buu Saga

Chibi Trunks takes this IMO. I believe Chibi Trunks > Goten = Gohan.

1. Paikuhan Vs Perfect Cell (not Super Perfect)

It depends. I think there's two real ways to interpret Paikuhan's feats. The first is that Paikuhan used some technique resembling the Kaio-ken on Super Perfect Cell and that his true unweighted power is a bit below Cell Games Base Goku and his unweighted power somewhat above Cell Games SSjin Goku. In this case Cell would defeat him. The other explanation is that Weighted Paikuhan is actually above SPC and that Base Goku got haxed to his level, in which case Paikuhan would finger-flick Cell.

1. Yamcha 23rd Budokai Vs Tambourine

Yamucha absolutely demolishes Tambourine.

2. Karin Vs King Piccolo Old

Hate to say it, but Karin-sama is implied to only be a notch above the Chibi Goku that Old Piccolo Daimao stomped without even using his full power, so he'd get ripped apart here.

[Nineteen]

At equal powers, Vegeta tanks the worst the Z fighters can throw at him. The other GT characters get stomped, though.

I can't tell if this is a running joke or if you're serious, but there's no indication that Vegeta's durability is abnormally high. He's tougher than some of the others, but not exponentially so.