Funimation comments on Battle of Gods' status

[B]

Am I still the only person left who openly hates FUNi and would much prefer a fansub?

The subtitles for the show are done by someone respected in the community(Steve Simmons/Daimao). No one's making you watch the eventual dub.

And given the English-speaking fanbase, any fansub would probably use dub terminology anyway. Prepare for Beers to completely own Tien!

[Mewzard]

Am I still the only person left who openly hates FUNi and would much prefer a fansub?

Hates? Given Kai's dubbing and how Funi does modern dubs, for the most part (with some exceptions).

Prefers? Fansubs, for the most part. Official subs? Most of Kanzenshuu'd prefer the subs (though not out of any hatred).

Me? I want both. I'm paying for a DVD/Blu Ray, might as well get as much out of it as I can, so I enjoy English Dub and Japanese with English Sub.

Besides, FUNi's subtitles seem pretty accurate, and if they continue with their dubbing method, the home release should have an option for Japanese audio with English subtitles. I don't really see what a fansub offers that a mostly accurate official subtitle doesn't.

Indeed, Funi does subs right on their sets, certainly better than what you might get with a fansub:







Just avoid fansubs, it will keep you saner in the long run.

[Ryuman]

Despite those examples not being the best, I find subs with notes to be above regular subs.

[ABED]

I'm so glad FUNimation doesn't care about money.

Okay, that doesn't make a lick of sense. Of course a business has to care about money. No money = no business. Product doesn't have to suffer in order to make money. They aren't mutually exclusive. I'd to think what that would mean if it was true.

[Mewzard]

Despite those examples not being the best, I find subs with notes to be above regular subs.

If you have to throw in random notes to do a sub...then you shouldn't be doing a sub. You can properly sub a show without a single translator's note and make it sound good in English. There's a reason you won't find translator's notes in any official subs. Because they're a damn crutch not to make any hard choices in how to translate a scene. Why translate a word when you can leave random Japanese floating on the screen and then explain a myriad of meanings that could be used (or, in some cases "Just according to keikaku *Translator's Note: Keikaku means plan*").

A good sub will NEVER use translator's notes, never randomly leaves in Japanese that is easily translatable unless it's been adapted into the language (like Samurai, Ninja, Karaoke, etc) or is a name (with some exceptions like attack names for aesthetics, and some subs will leave in honorifics, but I feel they shouldn't unless the fact that a series is supposed to be culturally Japanese, and not just any show that happened to be made in Japan), and never use a font that is hard to read/a weird color/throw in stupid flashing/spinning sub effects.

A good sub avoids much of the above while also making the dialog sound fully natural in English, and also making sure that characters have distinct voices, and are not just all speaking like middle aged guys, from the old man to the 12 year old girl.

A good sub requires a lot of effort, yet is supposed to be as non-intrusive as possible. Plain, legible subs in natural English with no random Japanese make viewings of a show the easiest for the viewing audience. If subs distract the audience from the show, it defeats the whole point of a sub.

[ABED]

Despite those examples not being the best, I find subs with notes to be above regular subs.

If you have to throw in random notes to do a sub...then you shouldn't be doing a sub. You can properly sub a show without a single translator's note and make it sound good in English. There's a reason you won't find translator's notes in any official subs. Because they're a damn crutch not to make any hard choices in how to translate a scene. Why translate a word when you can leave random Japanese floating on the screen and then explain a myriad of meanings that could be used (or, in some cases "Just according to keikaku *Translator's Note: Keikaku means plan*").

A good sub will NEVER use translator's notes, never randomly leaves in Japanese that is easily translatable unless it's been adapted into the language (like Samurai, Ninja, Karaoke, etc) or is a name (with some exceptions like attack names for aesthetics, and some subs will leave in honorifics, but I feel they shouldn't unless the fact that a series is supposed to be culturally Japanese, and not just any show that happened to be made in Japan), and never use a font that is hard to read/a weird color/throw in stupid flashing/spinning sub effects.

A good sub avoids much of the above while also making the dialog sound fully natural in English, and also making sure that characters have distinct voices, and are not just all speaking like middle aged guys, from the old man to the 12 year old girl.

A good sub requires a lot of effort, yet is supposed to be as non-intrusive as possible. Plain, legible subs in natural English with no random Japanese make viewings of a show the easiest for the viewing audience. If subs distract the audience from the show, it defeats the whole point of a sub.

A good sub NEVER uses translator notes? What about in movie 2 when Bulma makes the "No" = "Brain" pun?

[Ryuman]

Despite those examples not being the best, I find subs with notes to be above regular subs.

*Snip*.

Translator notes allow more cultural awareness that can't be understood in a different language. I'm very happy to learn meanings from particular phrases to get a better idea of what someone means.
Besides, Simmons does it as well. He leaves many names untranslated as well as small notes within the actual speech subtitles in situations such as when Kaio makes a joke.
Edit: Also, I'm not saying those examples were good either. I've seen fansubs that translate phrases, but then leave notes up top to explain the specific Japanese phrase.

[Mewzard]

A good sub NEVER uses translator notes? What about in movie 2 when Bulma makes the "No" = "Brain" pun?

You find as close a way to make the joke work as possible. If you can't exactly translate the pun, you find a pun that conveys the same spirit. If you have to explain the joke, it ruins it. Translator's note-ing a joke defeats the entire point of the joke. It's not about the exact words, it's about a pun in the given situation. The whole point of a joke is to make someone laugh, not to convey a detail-important story. Just imagine if a dub exactly said an accurate translation of the joke, and then the character went on to say that was funny because of how two words sound similar. That wouldn't be funny, because it misses the point entirely.

To show examples, the TV-N Sub of a scene:



And the Over-Time sub of a scene:



Call me crazy, but I'll go with Over-Time's choice, thanks.

Edit: Just so you know, his puns are SUPPOSED to be bad old man puns, before you question it, lol.

[Ryuman]

Then we must agree to disagree. I just do not accept your way of thinking here.

[Mewzard]

Then we must agree to disagree. I just do not accept your way of thinking here.

Every single comedian on Earth would tell you not to explain the joke (unless explaining the joke was the joke) because that ruins the joke. If you have to explain a joke...it's not funny. And if a joke's not funny, it's not much of a joke (even a bad joke is more comedic than an explained joke).

The character above tells these horrible pun jokes as part of his character. He does it nigh constantly. The jokes themselves don't even matter. The fact that they're groan-worthy is what matters. It's using the choice of "Hero" he says in English and uses a pun that makes sense to English speakers. I don't have to pause and reflect on the choice of Japanese word to pun off it, the sub makes the pun immediately clear and doesn't hurt the flow of the series in the least, which is what is important.

Explaining jokes is one of the worst offenses you can do to said joke. A joke is meant to be understood by the listener. It really doesn't matter what the exact joke is if the intent is to just be a joke. You can choose a joke in English that is relevant to what the old joke/situation was, or like above, keep a piece of it and follow the same intent/feeling of the joke without being literal in translation.

[ABED]

Then we must agree to disagree. I just do not accept your way of thinking here.

Every single comedian on Earth would tell you not to explain the joke (unless explaining the joke was the joke) because that ruins the joke. If you have to explain a joke...it's not funny. And if a joke's not funny, it's not much of a joke (even a bad joke is more comedic than an explained joke).

The character above tells these horrible pun jokes as part of his character. He does it nigh constantly. The jokes themselves don't even matter. The fact that they're groan-worthy is what matters. It's using the choice of "Hero" he says in English and uses a pun that makes sense to English speakers. I don't have to pause and reflect on the choice of Japanese word to pun off it, the sub makes the pun immediately clear and doesn't hurt the flow of the series in the least, which is what is important.

Explaining jokes is one of the worst offenses you can do to said joke. A joke is meant to be understood by the listener. It really doesn't matter what the exact joke is if the intent is to just be a joke. You can choose a joke in English that is relevant to what the old joke/situation was, or like above, keep a piece of it and follow the same intent/feeling of the joke without being literal in translation.

We're dealing with cultural boundaries, and I don't care about the whole "if you have to explain the joke it isn't funny". I don't have to laugh to get some measure of enjoyment out of it. I would still like to know what the joke is. Explaining a joke isn't the worst offense. Being elitist about jokes is. If a joke isn't understood, maybe there are issues like cultural boundaries.

"You can choose a joke in English that is relevant to what the old joke/situation was"
No, then it's no longer a translation. We're talking about subtitles here, not adaptations, unless I'm missing something and you are talking about adaptations.

[Mewzard]

We're dealing with cultural boundaries, and I don't care about the whole "if you have to explain the joke it isn't funny". I don't have to laugh to get some measure of enjoyment out of it. I would still like to know what the joke is. Explaining a joke isn't the worst offense. Being elitist about jokes is. If a joke isn't understood, maybe there are issues like cultural boundaries.

"You can choose a joke in English that is relevant to what the old joke/situation was"
No, then it's no longer a translation. We're talking about subtitles here, not adaptations, unless I'm missing something and you are talking about adaptations.

A joke isn't told because it conveys some important meaning. A joke is told because the audience is supposed to be amused and laugh. That's the whole point of a joke. The cultural meaning or how two words in Japanese sound similar is meaningless to the point.

The only thing explaining a joke would do is show you why the original audience might find it funny...but here's the thing: The person watching it is supposed to be amused, not try to comprehend the amusement of some third party. The joke was written with the intent to make the person reading it laugh (or groan in the case of a bad joke). You feel that with a joke that works in your native language. You don't in the matter you subscribe to.

It defeats the entire purpose of the scene and you might as well just cut the scene out entirely if you're not going to enjoy it the way it was meant to be enjoyed. With jokes, the intent isn't the literal meaning, it's the amusement based on some form of amusing observation or wordplay. Japanese wordplay doesn't often work in English, so it has to be translated.

Your issue is that you don't get the point. You're so literal translation focused/burned by old style translations of shows you're missing the entire point of a joke that the audience would get. If the audience is intended to get a joke in a way that makes sense, you're supposed to get it that way. If an audience is not supposed to understand something, you're not supposed to understand something

Whether you're speaking English or Japanese, the author originally intended you experience his joke as a joke. An adaptation or sub is supposed to recognize that and make the adjustments necessary to give you that experience. You shouldn't be punished because you don't speak Japanese. Sure, some groups can take too many liberties...but in the case of a joke, priority one is for it to work as a joke. Accuracy is secondary to that.

Most any given official translation is going to make the joke make sense in English, and they damn well should. It's NOT a joke if they exact translate it and then throw some random tidbit afterwards so you can get some inkling of why it could be funny. The writer wasn't trying to educate you on culture or Japanese puns, the writer was trying to make you laugh. That is the intent. Intent is always more important than the literal meaning. For example:



This is likely literally accurate (I say likely because the subbing group in question had made mistakes in the past by playing by ear).

The meaning was to use an idiom to say something was simple or easy, correct? Well, this idiom has no real meaning in English. So you can translator's note it if you want, but what about:

"Now that's what I would call 'Easy as Pie'!"

Replacing the Japanese Idiom "asameshimae" with an English equivalent "Easy as Pie". It both keeps the commentary on being easy, but it also keeps the reference food related, and makes sense to an English speak. It keeps the meaning and intent of the dialogue without being literal to the point of stifling the dialog.

Why go through all the trouble of explaining some random Japanese term that really isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things when you have a naturally sounding alternative that fits the situation and, while not exact, does keep the intent of the scene quite well. Your eyes don't have to dart across the screen for a second or two (no potential need for pausing for the slower readers), no having to think about needless information. It works quite well.

Too many fansub groups just throw in random pointless Japanese to sound cool, leading to people throwing random Japanese in their sentences because they think it sounds cool, when it's entirely needless and just looks silly. Subs like those distract me like nobody's business and fully pull me out of the experience.

I almost gave up on a fansub because of this:



That's an extremely bad example, yes, but...damn. Just damn. I stopped watching their subs after finishing the show because of crap like that.

[B]

I honestly don't really disagree with Mewzard... if we were talking about a dub and not subtitles. Those should be little more strict translation-wise, and if you need to fit some notes in there, I'm fine so long as it's not excessive.

[Ryuman]

I can read translator notes for a joke and still laugh. Jokes are to make fun of something, so don't change what they're making fun of. It's small, nitpicky and maybe rather unimportant, but you are still changing the point. The subtitles are meant to translate, not adapt. Also, stop trying to prove your points with bad examples. I also think it would be wise to stop trying to change our opinions, this is really cluttering the thread.
If you don't want the notes, don't read'em.

[ABED]

But the translator isn't writing the joke, he/she is TRANSLATING!

If someone explains a joke it can actually still be funny and amusing.

Simmons does notes, and they aren't distracting, ergo, I don't agree with your point. To give you an example of why notes are better look at the scene where Goku gets Kaio to train him by making him laugh using puns. In the Z translation, there are no notes, so the translation reads "The Feline is supine". Goku would never use a word like "supine". He's a hick. In Kai, the translation has notes.

If people don't laugh at the joke, they don't laugh, but I want to know what is said.

In movie 2 the subtitle is something like "Oh no!" "no = japanese word for 'brain'" It's minimally invasive. I think you are making mountains out of molehills.

[Mewzard]

But the translator isn't writing the joke, he/she is TRANSLATING!

If someone explains a joke it can actually still be funny and amusing.

Simmons does notes, and they aren't distracting, ergo, I don't agree with your point. To give you an example of why notes are better look at the scene where Goku gets Kaio to train him by making him laugh using puns. In the Z translation, there are no notes, so the translation reads "The Feline is supine". Goku would never use a word like "supine". He's a hick. In Kai, the translation has notes.

If people don't laugh at the joke, they don't laugh, but I want to know what is said.

In movie 2 the subtitle is something like "Oh no!" "no = japanese word for 'brain'" It's minimally invasive. I think you are making mountains out of molehills.

Simmons does notes...he also came from a fan community, so that shouldn't be surprising. Still, he does better notes than most fansubs I've seen, I'll give you that. But I would prefer a full translation, not a partial translation that includes notes to translate what they didn't translate when they could have just translated it in the dialog.

I would rather have "the feline is supine" than a translator's note. Of course, I'd take a more fitting line for Goku's character over that, but I'd need the exact situations to make a better judgement call.

What is said really doesn't matter in the long run with a joke. The point of a joke is either to be funny, or to be a bad joke to make someone grimace, or something like that. The joke could be anything. The writer just happened to choose what they chose to make a laugh. The translator should find a creative way to try to retain the intent, feel, and even some of the meaning if possible (which can happen. You can keep one part of the pun if it's wordplay, you'll just have to change the other word to something that works).

You can find workarounds if you have a good enough grasp of both languages (as any subber should). You don't need to avoid translating this stuff, you just gotta think about how to do it as best you can based on the situation. I've seen plenty of solid subs that get how to be just lose enough to make stuff like this work and never once have to leave translator's notes in needlessly.

[ABED]

He's not leaving Kaio's puns in Japanese. He's just letting people know what the puns are. Feline is supine isn't a translation and it doesn't fit Goku's speech. Supine is too fancy a word for Goku.

The point of a translating a joke isn't to make people laugh. It's to translate. It's an adapters point to make the humor work for their audience.

"you find a pun that conveys the same spirit"
Then it's no longer a translation.

Simmons didn't avoid translating. The actual line was something like "the feline is on his back" or something to that effect. Then the note gave what the japanese words for cat and back were. I can't remember exactly what it was but it didn't take up much space.

Translators and adapters are two entirely different jobs.

[Mewzard]

He's not leaving Kaio's puns in Japanese. He's just letting people know what the puns are. Feline is supine isn't a translation and it doesn't fit Goku's speech. Supine is too fancy a word for Goku.

The point of a translating a joke isn't to make people laugh. It's to translate. It's an adapters point to make the humor work for their audience.

Simmons didn't avoid translating. The actual line was something like "the feline is on his back" or something to that effect. Then the note gave what the japanese words for cat and back were. I can't remember exactly what it was but it didn't take up much space.

Translators and adapters are two entirely different jobs.

"I guess you got the cat back." "Cat got your back?" "Guess your cat's hangin' around." "I guess that's one way to get the cat off the pole..." "Careful, you might get cat-scratch fever!"

There are a lot of ways to try to do that joke or something related to it that retain King Kai's trademark terrible humor. King Kai's jokes are supposed to be bad, that's why nobody laughs and it gets awkward.

And those may be two different jobs, but a good majority of the Tokusatsu fanbase (besides the terrible TV-Nihon *the notes are just annoying, it's what they use them for, their inaccuracies, and their illegible spinning font that make them terrible*) don't use translator's notes for the most part and translate everything. They're not doing so under any official capacity, yet they make good subs that let me enjoy the series and don't leave me frustrated.

In fact, of all the subs I've seen with notes, Simmons' is the only one that I haven't ended up too mad at. He's a lot more reasonable about it. I still think the jokes should be conveyed in a way that retains there actually being a joke, but he does good. You very rarely actually NEED notes. The only time you'd ever NEED translator's notes was if you ran into a word that had no equivalent in the English language. And when that happens, sometimes English ends up adapting it anyways as loanwords.

We're kinda getting off topic here, so maybe we should pull back a bit...

[ABED]

He's not leaving Kaio's puns in Japanese. He's just letting people know what the puns are. Feline is supine isn't a translation and it doesn't fit Goku's speech. Supine is too fancy a word for Goku.

The point of a translating a joke isn't to make people laugh. It's to translate. It's an adapters point to make the humor work for their audience.

Simmons didn't avoid translating. The actual line was something like "the feline is on his back" or something to that effect. Then the note gave what the japanese words for cat and back were. I can't remember exactly what it was but it didn't take up much space.

Translators and adapters are two entirely different jobs.

"I guess you got the cat back." "Cat got your back?" "Guess your cat's hangin' around." "I guess that's one way to get the cat off the pole..." "Careful, you might get cat-scratch fever!"

We're kinda getting off topic here, so maybe we should pull back a bit...

Not one of those things was a pun or the line, and it's not the translation.

Interesting conversation. Perhaps continue it another thread.

[Mewzard]

He's not leaving Kaio's puns in Japanese. He's just letting people know what the puns are. Feline is supine isn't a translation and it doesn't fit Goku's speech. Supine is too fancy a word for Goku.

The point of a translating a joke isn't to make people laugh. It's to translate. It's an adapters point to make the humor work for their audience.

Simmons didn't avoid translating. The actual line was something like "the feline is on his back" or something to that effect. Then the note gave what the japanese words for cat and back were. I can't remember exactly what it was but it didn't take up much space.

Translators and adapters are two entirely different jobs.

"I guess you got the cat back." "Cat got your back?" "Guess your cat's hangin' around." "I guess that's one way to get the cat off the pole..." "Careful, you might get cat-scratch fever!"

We're kinda getting off topic here, so maybe we should pull back a bit...

Not one of those things was a pun or the line, and it's not the translation.

Interesting conversation. Perhaps continue it another thread.

I was going more observational, but there are funny ways to do lines. "That cat's really getting under your skin." (I can explain why that one was funny . Just kidding)

On the matter of Funimation and the movie, how long does Funi have to wait before they're allowed to go around Fox and get the movie? Is it until they say no? Is there a time limit? Or can Toei just go to Funi with it eventually?