Base Saiyans and Freeza

[Cardle grave]

10 tons under 10x gravity should be 100 tons. It would make sense if he could lift it since Vegeta was stated to be 18000 Kilos when training in 300x gravity. Not to mention in nameke saga 100x gravity was natural to goku. and Buu saga goku>>>>nameke saga goku.

[Draken]

10 tons under 10x gravity should be 100 tons. It would make sense if he could lift it since Vegeta was stated to be 18000 Kilos when training in 300x gravity. Not to mention in nameke saga 100x gravity was natural to goku. and Buu saga goku>>>>nameke saga goku.

10 tons under 10x gravity is 10 tons. If that 10 tons is calculated from when they were on the planet and not brought from a planet like Earth, then 10 tons is and always will be 10 tons. Then it'd drop to 1 ton on our planet. Because it's 10x heavier. When people travel to the moon, their weight drops, but does that mean they're magically no longer 150 pounds on Earth? No, the gravity on the moon is affecting their weight, same as with this. I love Goku and wish he were stronger and am one of the most adamant about his powers, but there's a very clear limit, and Goku was training with 40 tons.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gravity is what gives anything it's weight. No matter what level of gravity you're in, if the object is stated to be 10 tons, it's 10 tons. If you raised the gravity under the object, yes it would gain weight, however, since King Kai would have been aware of the heavy gravity, he would have said it's actual weight and he did. It's mere 10 tons no matter how you slice it.

[Bussani]

That lifting is still rather unimpressive for star/solar system busters.

I don't see why. How big an energy blast they can launch doesn't have much to do with how much they can lift, does it?

10 tons under 10x gravity should be 100 tons.

Only if you mean ten tons of mass and not ten tons of weight. Ten tons of weight weighs ten tons regardless of gravity.

It would make sense if he could lift it since Vegeta was stated to be 18000 Kilos when training in 300x gravity. Not to mention in nameke saga 100x gravity was natural to goku. and Buu saga goku>>>>nameke saga goku.

Goku in 100 times Earth's gravity would only weigh about seven tons, and Vegeta in 300 times Earth's gravity would only weigh around 18-19 tons, so I think it makes enough sense without throwing extra gravity into the mix.

[The Monkey King]

I really like how BOG had Goku punching through Kaio's planet.

Oh I personally thought that wasn't amazingly impressive seeing the size of the planet and the fact that it was Goku's full power punch in SSJ3... should get someone to do the math on that one

According to obd King Kai's planet would be 1.6 million x denser than uranium due to it's small size but high gravity.
http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=17662

And Goku punched through that, not too shaddy now eh?

[Undertaker]

Frieza > Base Saiyans is wrong. Piccolo's LG amplification contradicts it. 1st Post Base Vegeta would beat Frieza IMO

[RandomGuy96]

Do you remember when Goku fired a Super Kamehameha at Piccolo and it didn't do crap? Or when he used the same move on 50 percent Freeza? Were those guys both three times as strong as Goku?

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

I really like how BOG had Goku punching through Kaio's planet.

Oh I personally thought that wasn't amazingly impressive seeing the size of the planet and the fact that it was Goku's full power punch in SSJ3... should get someone to do the math on that one

According to obd King Kai's planet would be 1.6 million x denser than uranium due to it's small size but high gravity.
http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=17662

And Goku punched through that, not too shaddy now eh?

Bussani came up with something like that on the BoG strength checker thread too. It seems a bit too over the top for me though.

Edit: Actually that's not too over the top, it doesn't even seem that high according to what I just read on OBD.

[Kamiccolo9]

Freeza > Base Saiyans is wrong. Piccolo's LG amplification contradicts it. 1st Post Base Vegeta would beat Freeza IMO

At least you said it was your opinion this time.
We don't know what the amplification was. Piccolo was also heavily injured at the time. And Cell also knew it was coming, and could have defended himself against him. Earlier, Piccolo managed to accomplish more with a surprise kick than he did with the Light Grenade.
And, what RandomGuy96 said.

[Mjb1985]

Piccolo does seem to imply that the Kamehameha from the Saiyan Saga is small change in the Androids Saga but I don't think that has any effect on the Base Saiyans placement.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I would love to know how LG decides base Saiyans > Freeza? I think base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Freeza when they give it their all come BoG but until then, no the base Saiyans haven't displayed any feats that would suggest they are that strong. The strongest evidence for base Saiyans >Freeza is Mighty Mask vs C-18, and even then you could easily argue C-18 is suppressed.

[Mjb1985]

I guess he's saying that Imperfect Cell >>>>> Piccolo which would create a gap so large that the Saiyans would have to be stronger.

But that doesn't appear to be how Ki blasts work.

Goku's Super Kamehameha was 910 against Piccolo who's below 408. So ki blasts work in a way we aren't interpreting right imo.

[TheMightyOzaru]

That's a rather flawed theory. It doesn't really cover anything. My power levels worked just fine without making Cell waaaaaay stronger than Piccolo.

[Mjb1985]

Yea I agree. It's not necessary.

[Bussani]

Bussani came up with something like that on the BoG strength checker thread too. It seems a bit too over the top for me though.

Edit: Actually that's not too over the top, it doesn't even seem that high according to what I just read on OBD.

It depends on how you look at it. On the one hand, it's much, much easier than destroying the Moon. On the other hand, Goku did it with a punch. One could argue that makes Super Saiyan 3 Goku's punch around as powerful as the most powerful nuclear bomb in the world.

[Undertaker]

Freeza > Base Saiyans is wrong. Piccolo's LG amplification contradicts it. 1st Post Base Vegeta would beat Freeza IMO

At least you said it was your opinion this time.
We don't know what the amplification was. Piccolo was also heavily injured at the time. And Cell also knew it was coming, and could have defended himself against him. Earlier, Piccolo managed to accomplish more with a surprise kick than he did with the Light Grenade.
And, what RandomGuy96 said.

Because it's an opinion. What I said about Broly is not because sources back me up. Piccolo being injured means nothing. his amplification should be greater than his Makkankosapo in the Saiyan Arc meaning at least 4X stronger. Cell walked through it

If you say Buu Arc Base Goku < Frieza so you would have Cell Games Cell Games FPSSJ Goku at the low billions which makes no sense.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Bussani came up with something like that on the BoG strength checker thread too. It seems a bit too over the top for me though.

Edit: Actually that's not too over the top, it doesn't even seem that high according to what I just read on OBD.

It depends on how you look at it. On the one hand, it's much, much easier than destroying the Moon. On the other hand, Goku did it with a punch. One could argue that makes Super Saiyan 3 Goku's punch around as powerful as the most powerful nuclear bomb in the world.

Well that's quite impressive, but since he didn't destroy the entire planet is it still around that powerful?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku can put Ki behind his punches so this seems perfectly normal for him.

[Kamiccolo9]

Freeza > Base Saiyans is wrong. Piccolo's LG amplification contradicts it. 1st Post Base Vegeta would beat Freeza IMO

At least you said it was your opinion this time.
We don't know what the amplification was. Piccolo was also heavily injured at the time. And Cell also knew it was coming, and could have defended himself against him. Earlier, Piccolo managed to accomplish more with a surprise kick than he did with the Light Grenade.
And, what RandomGuy96 said.

Because it's an opinion. What I said about Broly is not because sources back me up. Piccolo being injured means nothing. his amplification should be greater than his Makkankosapo in the Saiyan Arc meaning at least 4X stronger. Cell walked through it

If you say Buu Arc Base Goku < Freeza so you would have Cell Games Cell Games FPSSJ Goku at the low billions which makes no sense.

What do you mean him being injured means nothing? If he's severely hurt or tired, which he was, it makes perfect sense for the attack to not be as strong as it could be. And, again, if you take the 2.2x multiplier for the Kamehameha as a fact, then Goku should have stomped Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai. Technique amplification isn't as consistent as you seem to think it is.

[Undertaker]

What do you mean him being injured means nothing? If he's severely hurt or tired, which he was, it makes perfect sense for the attack to not be as strong as it could be. And, again, if you take the 2.2x multiplier for the Kamehameha as a fact, then Goku should have stomped Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai. Technique amplification isn't as consistent as you seem to think it is.

I agree, but Piccolo said in that arc that Cell's KH is low because he has Saiyan Saga Goku's amplification