(NEW FORM) Ultimate Goku?

[HeroR]

True though. Although we thought the exact same thing after Battle of Gods ended where Goku would supposively only focus on Base and regular SSJ from that time on, Akira Toriyama even went so far to say he won't go SSJ2 and 3 anymore in an interview, yet one arc later, SSJ Blue was created, and later in the Future Trunks arc Goku even used SSJ2 and 3 again! So it's clear Toei just do what they want. But i hope you're right and Toriyama's going to have to be more strict from now on.

That isn't what what he said. He said Goku 'probably' won't used Super Saiyan 2 and 3 anymore since they're just extensions of Super Saiyan that drains more energy and Goku hasn't really used those forms in Super. It's been primarily Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which is just Super Saiyan with is god ki.

And the manga had Super Saiyan 2 and 3 in the same places as the anime, so what is this idea coming from that Toei is just inserting these forms without Toriyama knowing about it?

[GodVegetto91]

True though. Although we thought the exact same thing after Battle of Gods ended where Goku would supposively only focus on Base and regular SSJ from that time on, Akira Toriyama even went so far to say he won't go SSJ2 and 3 anymore in an interview, yet one arc later, SSJ Blue was created, and later in the Future Trunks arc Goku even used SSJ2 and 3 again! So it's clear Toei just do what they want. But i hope you're right and Toriyama's going to have to be more strict from now on.

That isn't what what he said. He said Goku 'probably' won't used Super Saiyan 2 and 3 anymore since they're just extensions of Super Saiyan that drains more energy and Goku hasn't really used those forms in Super. It's been primarily Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which is just Super Saiyan with is god ki.

And the manga had Super Saiyan 2 and 3 in the same places as the anime, so what is this idea coming from that Toei is just inserting these forms without Toriyama knowing about it?

Well then Toriyama simply changed his mind. I'm hoping this ties in with the theory that Goku's new look now is going to be his true Ultimate Stare from now on, completely replacing the old SSJ Forms, and that's why they used all the other Forms including especially SSS Blue so much in the series. but then again, it's only a wish of mine and most likely won't happen but we'll see.

[HeroR]

Well then Toriyama simply changed his mind. I'm hoping this ties in with the theory that Goku's new look now is going to be his true Ultimate Stare from now on, completely replacing the old SSJ Forms, and that's why they used all the other Forms including especially SSS Blue so much in the series. but then again, it's only a wish of mine and most likely won't happen but we'll see.

He really didn't since Goku hardly used the lower Super Saiyan form outside of basic Super Saiyan. Out of all of Super, he used Super Saiyan 2 six times and Super Saiyan 3 three times. Compared that to him using normal Super Saiyan over a dozen times and I lost count of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

[GodVegetto91]

Well then Toriyama simply changed his mind. I'm hoping this ties in with the theory that Goku's new look now is going to be his true Ultimate Stare from now on, completely replacing the old SSJ Forms, and that's why they used all the other Forms including especially SSS Blue so much in the series. but then again, it's only a wish of mine and most likely won't happen but we'll see.

He really didn't since Goku hardly used the lower Super Saiyan form outside of basic Super Saiyan. Out of all of Super, he used Super Saiyan 2 six times and Super Saiyan 3 three times. Compared that to him using normal Super Saiyan over a dozen times and I lost count of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

That's 9 times too much.

[emperior]

Again, if Toriyama decides old forms are gone then Toei must follow it. It might explain why they have decided to make Goku go SSJ/SSJ2 and Blue so much recently, as those forms might probably never appear again. At least I hope so, I've been praying for them to get rid of all these transformations for Goku and Vegeta, to make them always powerful in their base, like Beerus, Whis, Toppo, Hit - basically everyone except for Saiyans. That's also how it used to be before all those transformations were created. At the very least I hope we go back to something simpler like it was up until the Androids arc where it was Base --> SSJ.
Seeing as Toriyama is also a fan of simple things I think I will se my wishes come true sooner or later.

You mean besides Freeza's race and the magical girls? And this new form is clearly not Goku's base. We also know crap about the other Gods of Destruction, so whose to say that they can't transform?

Do you really think those Gods can transform? I think all angels, hakaishins and kaioshins can't transform. Like all the new characters introduced by Toriyama who aren't Saiyans or Frost. There are only the magical girls who transform but that's because they are a parody of magical girls. Then there's Freeza who is now always in his final form and only has his Golden transformation, and Frost too is always in his final form now. I hope the same will happen for Goku and Vegeta so I wish this new form will be base state powered up through God ki with the only changes being the aura, the slightly lifted up hair and the eyes. I also hope this new form will straight up cancel the old forms. I wouldn't care if I never saw SSJ1/2/3, God and Blue again.

[HeroR]

Do you really think those Gods can transform? I think all angels, hakaishins and kaioshins can't transform. Like all the new characters introduced by Toriyama who aren't Saiyans or Frost. There are only the magical girls who transform but that's because they are a parody of magical girls. Then there's Freeza who is now always in his final form and only has his Golden transformation, and Frost too is always in his final form now. I hope the same will happen for Goku and Vegeta so I wish this new form will be base state powered up through God ki with the only changes being the aura, the slightly lifted up hair and the eyes. I also hope this new form will straight up cancel the old forms. I wouldn't care if I never saw SSJ1/2/3, God and Blue again.

Going by what we know, the gods started as mortals no different from Goku if Toppo is in the running to be a God of Destruction. So why wouldn't they be able to transformed if it's within their species? The Gods of Destruction are not a species, unlike the Kais that are all born from fruit.

The magical girls are new characters and have a clear transformation and it doesn't matter if they're a parody. They still have transformations. Freeza's final form is his true form and the reason why he isn't using his lower forms because they're weaker. The same with Frost.

Even if that was all that changes, that would still be a transformation. Super Saiyan is just Goku's hair up, it turns yellow, and his eyes go blue. Which is literally the same thing we see in the poster outside of the hair changing colors, and that if those highlights are just a lighting effect and not part of a color change. I also don't get why a new form would cancel all the other forms.

[gofishus]

True though. Although we thought the exact same thing after Battle of Gods ended where Goku would supposively only focus on Base and regular SSJ from that time on, Akira Toriyama even went so far to say he won't go SSJ2 and 3 anymore in an interview, yet one arc later, SSJ Blue was created, and later in the Future Trunks arc Goku even used SSJ2 and 3 again! So it's clear Toei just do what they want. But i hope you're right and Toriyama's going to have to be more strict from now on.

That isn't what what he said. He said Goku 'probably' won't used Super Saiyan 2 and 3 anymore since they're just extensions of Super Saiyan that drains more energy and Goku hasn't really used those forms in Super. It's been primarily Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which is just Super Saiyan with is god ki.

And the manga had Super Saiyan 2 and 3 in the same places as the anime, so what is this idea coming from that Toei is just inserting these forms without Toriyama knowing about it?

I thought Super Saiyan 2 was almost strictly better than Super Saiyan 1 which is why Goku prefers it when sparring like with Black and Trunks

[HeroR]

True though. Although we thought the exact same thing after Battle of Gods ended where Goku would supposively only focus on Base and regular SSJ from that time on, Akira Toriyama even went so far to say he won't go SSJ2 and 3 anymore in an interview, yet one arc later, SSJ Blue was created, and later in the Future Trunks arc Goku even used SSJ2 and 3 again! So it's clear Toei just do what they want. But i hope you're right and Toriyama's going to have to be more strict from now on.

That isn't what what he said. He said Goku 'probably' won't used Super Saiyan 2 and 3 anymore since they're just extensions of Super Saiyan that drains more energy and Goku hasn't really used those forms in Super. It's been primarily Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which is just Super Saiyan with is god ki.

And the manga had Super Saiyan 2 and 3 in the same places as the anime, so what is this idea coming from that Toei is just inserting these forms without Toriyama knowing about it?

I thought Super Saiyan 2 was almost strictly better than Super Saiyan 1 which is why Goku prefers it when sparring like with Black and Trunks

Super Saiyan 2 is stronger and faster than a normal Super Saiyan, but drains more stamina.

He used Super Saiyan 2 against Trunks since he was using Super Saiyan 2 and he used Super Saiyan 2 against Black because Trunks told him that Black was a little above Super Saiyan 3 and Goku wanted to take it slow.

[gohan_black]

That isn't what what he said. He said Goku 'probably' won't used Super Saiyan 2 and 3 anymore since they're just extensions of Super Saiyan that drains more energy and Goku hasn't really used those forms in Super. It's been primarily Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which is just Super Saiyan with is god ki.

And the manga had Super Saiyan 2 and 3 in the same places as the anime, so what is this idea coming from that Toei is just inserting these forms without Toriyama knowing about it?

I thought Super Saiyan 2 was almost strictly better than Super Saiyan 1 which is why Goku prefers it when sparring like with Black and Trunks

Super Saiyan 2 is stronger and faster than a normal Super Saiyan, but drains more stamina.

He used Super Saiyan 2 against Trunks since he was using Super Saiyan 2 and he used Super Saiyan 2 against Black because Trunks told him that Black was a little above Super Saiyan 3 and Goku wanted to take it slow.

WHERE DID YOU GET THIS BULLSHIT? ULTRA SUPER Saiyan DRAINS MORE STAMINA NOT SSJ2. SSJ2 IS THE PERFECT SUPER Saiyan FORM AS GOKU EXPLAINED TO CAULIFIA DURING THE TOP

[HeroR]

WHERE DID YOU GET THIS BULLSHIT? ULTRA SUPER Saiyan DRAINS MORE STAMINA NOT SSJ2. SSJ2 IS THE PERFECT SUPER Saiyan FORM AS GOKU EXPLAINED TO CAULIFIA DURING THE TOP

Goku never called Super Saiyan 2 the perfect Super Saiyan form. He just called it better than Ultra Super Saiyan.

And turn off the cap lock.

[gohan_black]

WHERE DID YOU GET THIS BULLSHIT? ULTRA SUPER Saiyan DRAINS MORE STAMINA NOT SSJ2. SSJ2 IS THE PERFECT SUPER Saiyan FORM AS GOKU EXPLAINED TO CAULIFIA DURING THE TOP

Goku never called Super Saiyan 2 the perfect Super Saiyan form. He just called it better than Ultra Super Saiyan.

And turn off the cap lock.

I CANT TURN OFF THE CAP I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY KEYBOARD. NEVER IT WAS STATED ANYWHERE THAT SSJ2 DRAINS MORE STAMINA THEN SSJ BECAUSE IT ISNT. YOU JUST MADE IT UP. IF IT WAS TRUE THEN GOHAN WOULDENT BEAT CELL THAT EASLY

[HeroR]

I CANT TURN OFF THE CAP I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY KEYBOARD. NEVER IT WAS STATED ANYWHERE THAT SSJ2 DRAINS MORE STAMINA THEN SSJ BECAUSE IT ISNT. YOU JUST MADE IT UP. IF IT WAS TRUE THEN GOHAN WOULDENT BEAT CELL THAT EASLY

Toriyama called Super Saiyan 2 and 3 nothing more than extensions of Super Saiyan that drains more energy in the long run. So yes, Super Saiyan 2 drains more energy than Super Saiyan.

Gohan beating Cell has nothing to do with stamina. Gohan was simply stronger than Cell.

Do research before you claim someone made something up.

[gohan_black]

I CANT TURN OFF THE CAP I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY KEYBOARD. NEVER IT WAS STATED ANYWHERE THAT SSJ2 DRAINS MORE STAMINA THEN SSJ BECAUSE IT ISNT. YOU JUST MADE IT UP. IF IT WAS TRUE THEN GOHAN WOULDENT BEAT CELL THAT EASLY

Toriyama called Super Saiyan 2 and 3 nothing more than extensions of Super Saiyan that drains more energy in the long run. So yes, Super Saiyan 2 drains more energy than Super Saiyan.

Gohan beating Cell has nothing to do with stamina. Gohan was simply stronger than Cell.

Do research before you claim someone made something up.

STILL NEVER IT WAS STATED THAT SSJ2 DRAINS MORE STAMINA THEN SSJ1.

[HeroR]

STILL NEVER IT WAS STATED THAT SSJ2 DRAINS MORE STAMINA THEN SSJ1.

Toriyama, the person who writes Dragon Ball, has stated that Super Saiyan 2 drains more than Super Saiyan. That is the official word on the subject. Super Saiyan 2 being a perfect Super Saiyan form was said literally nowhere.

[gohan_black]

STILL NEVER IT WAS STATED THAT SSJ2 DRAINS MORE STAMINA THEN SSJ1.

Toriyama, the person who writes Dragon Ball, has stated that Super Saiyan 2 drains more than Super Saiyan. That is the official word on the subject. Super Saiyan 2 being a perfect Super Saiyan form was said literally nowhere.

HAVE A SOURCE TO THAT?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

STILL NEVER IT WAS STATED THAT SSJ2 DRAINS MORE STAMINA THEN SSJ1.

Toriyama, the person who writes Dragon Ball, has stated that Super Saiyan 2 drains more than Super Saiyan. That is the official word on the subject. Super Saiyan 2 being a perfect Super Saiyan form was said literally nowhere.

I've heard it said before around here, but was there ever a specific statement in the manga, anime, guidebooks, or interviews that states that SS2 is the "right way to power up" from SS?

===

Also, as to the actual thread topic, I might be repeating myself, but to me, Goku's new form's hair looks like it's in the midst of turning into a SS form, as it looks like it's starting to stand up but hasn't fully gone up and changed colour. This is a weird and crazy idea, but what if Goku's new form is the "in-between" state between base and SS, the best of both worlds?

Perhaps he learns how to "partially" transform into a SS form of some kind without going the full way, creating a fusion whereby he has the complete control and stability of his regular base form, but the immense power boost and intensity of his transformations. It could be that, for a brief moment when a Saiyan transforms, he/she has the same power as his/her transformation without having fully transformed and thus not gaining the downsides like the reduced stamina and energy consumption. Thus, it's almost impossible to actually stay in this state.......... That is, until Goku figures it out, and uses this newfound ability to gain access to the ultimate power, the balance between Saiyan and Super Saiyan.

[Edit]: We even see this in the intro to this arc, whereby Goku unleashes a red power from SSB, and through the energy we see his hair is black and standing up like in SS.

[HeroR]

STILL NEVER IT WAS STATED THAT SSJ2 DRAINS MORE STAMINA THEN SSJ1.

Toriyama, the person who writes Dragon Ball, has stated that Super Saiyan 2 drains more than Super Saiyan. That is the official word on the subject. Super Saiyan 2 being a perfect Super Saiyan form was said literally nowhere.

HAVE A SOURCE TO THAT?

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... mysteries/

[Grimlock]

I've heard it said before around here, but was there ever a specific statement in the manga, anime, guidebooks, or interviews that states that SS2 is the "right way to power up" from SS?.

Yes. Trunks says exactly that Super Saiyan 2 is the "right way of powering up from Super Saiyan" when Gohan transforms into Super Saiyan 2.

[gohan_black]

Toriyama, the person who writes Dragon Ball, has stated that Super Saiyan 2 drains more than Super Saiyan. That is the official word on the subject. Super Saiyan 2 being a perfect Super Saiyan form was said literally nowhere.

HAVE A SOURCE TO THAT?

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... mysteries/

Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.

NOTHING ABOUT STAMINA

AND THAT WAS SAID IN 2004. GOKU BECAME SSJ2 MANY TIMES IN SUPER. AGAINST ZAMASU. AGAINST BLACK. AGAINST CAULIFIA. AGAINST TRUNKS. THATS HIS FAVORITE NON GOD FORM.

[HeroR]

HAVE A SOURCE TO THAT?

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... mysteries/

Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.

NOTHING ABOUT STAMINA

AND THAT WAS SAID IN 2004. GOKU BECAME SSJ2 MANY TIMES IN SUPER. AGAINST ZAMASU. AGAINST BLACK. AGAINST CAULIFIA. AGAINST TRUNKS. THATS HIS FAVORITE NON GOD FORM.

He said this after Battle of Gods so it wasn't 2004. Also, he does mean stamina since what do you think 'sap less strength' means?

And "THATS HIS FAVORITE NON GOD FORM" is you making stuff up since that isn't said anywhere unless you have a link. In comparison, Goku used Super Saiyan all through the Champa Saga and all his sparring matches outside of Gohan. He also only used Super Saiyan 2 against Cali to show her the form. Before then, he was only Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan is also the default form he uses when training besides base.