Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

[Kinokima]

Well I thought the fight scene and Goku's new form definitely definitely delivered for me. The design was incredible, I loved it. The animation was splendid so at least they delivered in that respect.

Plot wise though I am a little worried about introducing someone as strong as Jiren and giving Goku such a tremendous power (although at least it's most likely not something Goku can use all the time yet). Because I have to ask where do you go from here? I am beginning to hope Goku won't beat Jiren because I don't want Goku to get so strong so quickly but I don't know how to get around it either.

As for those complaining about Jiren being boring while I don't think he's going to become one of my favorite characters I do think its intriguing that he's probably not a bad guy. In fact I think his wish will end up telling us a lot about him. Just like Ribrianne's wish told me she's incredibly shallow. She keeps sprouting love but does she even understand the word? I don't hate her character but I do hope someone will point out her hypocrisy in the end.

To be fair Goku's wish is pretty shallow too but we also know Goku isn't in it for the Super Dragon Balls which is why he hasn't really thought of a true wish. Goku always wants a stronger opponent so that wish makes sense but he is just as willing to give up the wish to someone else like Gohan or Chichi. So in that sense Goku isn't being hypocritical. The wish just doesn't matter to Goku.


And damn Freeza ruining that Goku and Vegeta moment in the end argh. I was annoyed lol. Actually I was a bit annoyed at Vegeta too for not giving Goku his energy but at least he blasted Ribiranne away to help. And personally I don't think Goku should be ready to fight again in only 2 more episodes. Goku was awesome in this episode but it would have been nice to keep Goku out of the picture for just a bit longer to give other characters a chance to shine. Although I guess there will still be time for that regardless. And I do hope we see Goku's new form again just not too soon.

Also it was nice that we got to see everyone from Universe 7 again in these episodes albeit only briefly.

[Bullza]

Theres videos on YouTube of this episode that already have over a million views.

[Nekis13]

Everyone's already sang praises for this Episode so I won't do that (This shit was spectacular though)

God, I'm really disliking how they're writing Vegeta this arc, going all "VEGETA-SAMAAAA" every Episode and not wanting to help Goku's spirit bomb. I hope he gets a reality check by Jiren, it's almost like he's going back to being his Android Saga self, the worst one.

[CJStriker_CBR]

I liked Ribrianne from her first appearance up until her fight with Vegeta, and I am on the camp that likes the Kamikaze Fireballs episode. However, her parroting the word love again and again is what made me get tired of her, and her matchup with Goku felt odd while the fight was OK, nothing special. I am fully aware that parodying is her purpose, but it doesn't mean I have to enjoy it. Still, at least she has personality unlike Jiren, and her designs are something I have no issue with. She is still a highlight of this arc, and is the MVP of her universe unlike Nigrisshi, who got built up as U3's but we know what happened to him. Kakunsa is still my favorite Fireball, though.

Why did RiBrianne blush at Jiren behind that rock?

Because she wants him to like her and she's a silly character?

Even fat girls need love.

First off glad meet you and that you like many of the concepts to concepts to Ribrianne and thanks for sharing them to have a discussion on them.

I can understand that, it being a valid point of view cause anything repeated too many times does get tired over time no matter how much one might like a character or concept.

With that I would hope you would be inclined to give her character some more time for development because really season we had 3 to 4 episodes at best to develop her character, that is really brand new for any character in Dragon Ball. I believe this is really an opening concept for her and much more is still down the line but it is up to Toei, but the roots are their.

Again very glad to hear you like Ribrianne in many areas and glad to have this talk with you on this subject, Peace and Honor to you!

[HeroR]

I absolutely LOVED how, for once in this franchise, the character who got the power up didn't just start mopping the floor with the other guy. We all know that trope, one character gets his ass whooped, transforms, does badass walk/stare, proceeds to beat the shit out of the other guy. It's tired and played out. It was so refreshing to see that the transformation was essentially a temporary boost that simply allowed Goku to be ON PAR with Jiren.

My only real gripe with this episode was the pacing during the gathering of the energy for the Spirit Bomb was a bit awkward and rushed, and that the writers continue to write Vegeta as an unlikeable dickhead that has completely regressed as a character. Go watch the final eps of the Buu saga, and then watch this. Absolutely disgraceful what they've done to him in this show.

"Wah wah, I'm not helping Kakarot! WAH!"

Ffs Vegeta, Freeza happily donated his energy. FREEZA.

Didn't you watched Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F'?

[HeroR]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushin_(mental_state)

This is what Ultra Instinct is about. It's cool, isn't it? To be able to move and act without a single thought. The episode showed incredibly well Goku being empty minded. Props to Toriyama for coming up with the idea, and to Toei and the anime staff to execute it so well.

Yep. As someone who have taken marital arts for a couple of years, this is what we strive to achieved. To move without thinking.

[Asura]

Do people hate Ribrianne because they're embarrassed to admit they're watching a show with Ribrianne in it?

Because Ribrianne wouldn't even crack the top five for me in terms of embarrassing things in Dragon Ball, and her fight and comedy beats this episode were solid.

Some fragile sense of masculinity here.

Oh please. It has nothing to do with "fragile masculinity". The character is simply one dimensional as hell, annoying, and has easily overstayed her welcome. Everything is just love this, love that, love love love without any explanation as to what the hell shes even going on about. At least the Pride Troopers have a little more dialogue than just constantly shouting JUSTICE! At least we've seen what this "justice" is that they're fighting for as opposed to just baselessly shouting "love" over and over. This "parody" has already turned into a bad parody.

Couple that with the fact that her design is sinisterly ugly and you've got one shitty character in your hands.

[HeroR]

He was also super pissed that Goku attained Ultra Instinct, since this means that Goku actually surpassed him

He wasn't "pissed", just shocked and surprised for obvious reason. And Goku did not surpass Beerus yet, anyway.

And you know for this for certainty, how?

To be fair, in this form he probably has. Jiren > Belmod > Beerus. And Goku can go toe to toe with Jiren, who isn't even at full power. This Goku is most def stronger than Beerus.

Is this based on the manga?

[Kinokima]

Everyone's already sang praises for this Episode so I won't do that (This shit was spectacular though)

God, I'm really disliking how they're writing Vegeta this arc, going all "VEGETA-SAMAAAA" every Episode and not wanting to help Goku's spirit bomb. I hope he gets a reality check by Jiren, it's almost like he's going back to being his Android Saga self, the worst one.

Yeah he didn't give his energy but he blasted Ribiranne away so she wouldn't attack Goku from behind. So he still helped in his own way. Vegeta can be stubborn but I am still not seeing the Android/Cell Vegeta.

And he was about to tell Goku to rest at the end of the episode before Freeza took him away (Note I do agree with the theory that Freeza might actually be sharing some energy with Goku like Goku shared with him on Namek. That makes sense to me because obviously Freeza is not going to kill Goku).

[Doctor.]

Hey Doc where's your episode breakdown? Haven't heard ya breakdown the good, mixed, bad, etc. Wanna breakdown your full thoughts on the episode?

The problem of forced tension continues this time in the form of Ribrianne, who is just a completely wasted character who isn't doing anything at this point; she just repeats the same gag over and over again, which although amusing or entertaining at the start, has gotten old with nothing new to spice it up. Just imagine if Mr. Satan remained his Cell-arc self throughout the rest of the series, wouldn't that get annoying? Would the excuse that he's a "gag character" work then? No? Then there you go. I realize the time Ribrianne has been on screen has been much shorter, but they've been doing nothing interesting with her personality or gimmick after #102. Her new powers get wasted on pointless fluff such as fighting base Goku.

Toei continues to forget SS3 exists and I continue to be annoyed by it.

The rules being arbitrary never got on my nerves before, because they at least acknowledged that fact with the Omni-Kings stating that what's cool goes (plus, some of the old tournaments always broke the rules too). But my issue in this episode is that they don't acknowledge the broken rules. Ribrianne apparently gets a power-up with the help of Helles and Kakunsa, who are out-of-bounds, and nobody even raises an objection? Later, Goku gets Ki from the humans and, yet again, nobody says anything? It's cool that they explained why Jiren wouldn't be disqualified, I liked that, but they left two other things to explain.

And speaking of the Genkidama, I said it would be dumb and it was, in fact, dumb. I like that Goku had exhausted all of his options instead of pulling out the Genkidama out of nowhere; that was good, it's his last resort and it was treated as such. My problem is why would he even use it with so few people to give him Genki? He was so reluctant to use it in the Boo arc without the Earthling's Genki even though he had Gohan & co's, which should have been enough, going by the logic of this episode (a minor nitpick also, he trained Super Saiyan to get rid of that maliciousness, I'm getting kinda sick of them forgetting the Cell arc training ever happened; first by saying it wastes stamina, now this). Also, shouldn't have the other transformed to give the maximum amount of Genki possible? Or do they somehow just give their max power in their base forms? Why did he use the Genkidama on someone pure of heart and why did it backfire on someone pure of heart? I won't pick too much on it, because how much Genki is needed and how the Genkidama works in the original series was also pretty arbitrary; it was always one of my main gripes with the technique. Regardless, the whole "black hole" thing was neat but it made no sense: where did Goku go and how the fuck did he get out? I can buy that the colliding energies made the Genkidama implode, but they completely glossed over how Goku came back.

Oh and Vegeta annoyed me by not contributing. He has certainly regressed, I've been trying to avoid saying this because most of the stuff Super!Vegeta has done I could picture post-Boo Vegeta saying as well, but this is the last straw. Well, maybe not "regressed" but you can definitely sense some conflict in characterization between different writers. Some episodes he's the "Ore-sama za bestu" Cell arc Vegeta, the others he's the more mellow Boo arc Vegeta.

Whis saying Goku has been using Kaioken x20 the whole time was straight out of the Freeza arc and it was neat, I guess. Kinda hoped Goku would use a higher Kaioken right afterwards. Innovate a little instead of relying on old material. Jiren's fighting style is pretty brutal, I like it. Shame he's literally still a brick wall. He spoke some more in this episode, though, which I liked.

The transformation made sense (for Dragon Ball's standards) and it has been built up from the start of the series, so I don't have bad things to say. I could nitpick and ask why the Genkidama specifically was the trigger and how it made him capable of learning a new technique, and why a technique that Whis, Beerus & the Gods and Angels all know is being treated as a transformation or form, but it's not worth it. The scene was cool, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, the insert song kicked ass and the animation was fantastic. Kind of a shame the fight could be summed up to a flurry of punches and shockwaves after Goku transforms, but it looked cool so... eh? I'll let it pass. Loved the return of the Oozaru roar, though. I think we haven't seen that since GT.

Freeza and Hit were pleasant surprises at the end. The episode had some pacing issues, though.

First time I've been excited since the tournament started, so the episode did its job. A bit disappointed they have seemingly dropped the whole "Goku is evil! Goku is dangerous!" plot point they hammered throughout the recruitment arc and the "something terrible" turned out to be "Oh no! Goku died (apparently)!" I was hoping for something more interesting, but there's still time I suppose.

Hmm... probably forgetting something important I wanted to say, but I guess that's about it. It was dumb but good, "hype" even. Certainly not as dumb or insulting as #66, even if it subscribes to the same "rule of cool over logic" philosophy.

[Nekis13]

Everyone's already sang praises for this Episode so I won't do that (This shit was spectacular though)

God, I'm really disliking how they're writing Vegeta this arc, going all "VEGETA-SAMAAAA" every Episode and not wanting to help Goku's spirit bomb. I hope he gets a reality check by Jiren, it's almost like he's going back to being his Android Saga self, the worst one.

Yeah he didn't give his energy but he blasted Ribiranne away so she wouldn't attack Goku from behind. So he still helped in his own way. Vegeta can be stubborn but I am still not seeing the Android/Cell Vegeta.

And he was about to tell Goku to rest at the end of the episode before Freeza took him away (Note I do agree with the theory that Freeza might actually be sharing some energy with Goku like Goku shared with him on Namek. That makes sense to me because obviously Freeza is not going to kill Goku).

Maybe I was wrong to call him that, but I still felt like that moment was weird. He could've just raised his hands after he blasted Ribrianne to help his homie

[Asura]

Disappointed as usual in the writing, from Toshio Yoshitaka having Goku use a Genki Dama on someone he knows is a good guy, to the explanation for the form. At least the animation was pretty cool and the music at first was nice to listen to. Shouldn't really be surprised that Super fucked up this badly on a special they had been hyping for a month, but for w/e reason it still astounds me on how bad they are.

Your expectations are out of whack if this seriously disappointed you that much. Wasn't even close to a "fuck up". They nailed pretty much everything except the writing in CERTAIN parts. That's not enough to warrant that severe of a reaction.

I wasn't expecting great writing considering who was writing the eps and just how terrible Super is in general. Between that, what I said (which were the important parts essentially) and Goku in his Ultra Instinct-Omen state vs Jiren being under 3 min in a 52 min TV "special" that has been heavily hyped and marketed for a month, yes, I do consider it a failure. But like I said, the animation was cool and some of the music was on point, at least early on.

Did it really only last 3 minutes? Because I wouldn't be surprised. How fast the fight came and went was one of my major complaints for this episode. Surprised that no one else is really taking issue with how rushed all the fighting was.

[SaiyanGod117]

Your expectations are out of whack if this seriously disappointed you that much. Wasn't even close to a "fuck up". They nailed pretty much everything except the writing in CERTAIN parts. That's not enough to warrant that severe of a reaction.

I wasn't expecting great writing considering who was writing the eps and just how terrible Super is in general. Between that, what I said (which were the important parts essentially) and Goku in his Ultra Instinct-Omen state vs Jiren being under 3 min in a 52 min TV "special" that has been heavily hyped and marketed for a month, yes, I do consider it a failure. But like I said, the animation was cool and some of the music was on point, at least early on.

Did it really only last 3 minutes? Because I wouldn't be surprised. How fast the fight came and went was one of my major complaints for this episode. Surprised that no one else is really taking issue with how rushed all the fighting was.

I had a problem with the pacing of the fight too, some portions went too fast, other too slow.

[emperior]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushin_(mental_state)

This is what Ultra Instinct is about. It's cool, isn't it? To be able to move and act without a single thought. The episode showed incredibly well Goku being empty minded. Props to Toriyama for coming up with the idea, and to Toei and the anime staff to execute it so well.

Yep. As someone who have taken marital arts for a couple of years, this is what we strive to achieved. To move without thinking.

That was also Bruce Lee's phylosophy "Be like water". I'm still amazed we got such a incredible form. Everything from its look to its concept is a 10/10.
I love how we went from rage transformations to calm ones, it fits with martial arts and with the evolution of Goku as a character and as a fighter.

[HeroR]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushin_(mental_state)

This is what Ultra Instinct is about. It's cool, isn't it? To be able to move and act without a single thought. The episode showed incredibly well Goku being empty minded. Props to Toriyama for coming up with the idea, and to Toei and the anime staff to execute it so well.

Yep. As someone who have taken marital arts for a couple of years, this is what we strive to achieved. To move without thinking.

That was also Bruce Lee's phylosophy "Be like water". I'm still amazed we got such a incredible form. Everything from its look to its concept is a 10/10.
I love how we went from rage transformations to calm ones, it fits with martial arts and with the evolution of Goku as a character and as a fighter.

Which is fitting since Goku's movements and even his aura were so fluid that it looked like water. This is probably the most marital arts I have seen from Dragon Ball since Resurrection 'F' movie where you can see several styles of marital arts in each of the Z-Fighters and Goku doing the One-Inch Punch.

This is personally why I find the fights in Super more interesting than Z. Z has a lot of flash but little substance that you can't help but noticed once you know some basic martial arts. So it make the whole 'these people are martial arts masters' feel force or a joke.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Do people hate Ribrianne because they're embarrassed to admit they're watching a show with Ribrianne in it?

Because Ribrianne wouldn't even crack the top five for me in terms of embarrassing things in Dragon Ball, and her fight and comedy beats this episode were solid.

Some fragile sense of masculinity here.

Oh please. It has nothing to do with "fragile masculinity". The character is simply one dimensional as hell, annoying, and has easily overstayed her welcome. Everything is just love this, love that, love love love without any explanation as to what the hell shes even going on about. At least the Pride Troopers have a little more dialogue than just constantly shouting JUSTICE! At least we've seen what this "justice" is that they're fighting for as opposed to just baselessly shouting "love" over and over. This "parody" has already turned into a bad parody.

Couple that with the fact that her design is sinisterly ugly and you've got one shitty character in your hands.

What is more surprising are fans trying to Judge, Jury and take her down with only four episodes of development at best. SMH.

Most likely you would get more of what is needed if you would allow the character to develop more beyond this. Seems more to me fans are hyper actively jumping on her to get rid of her extremely fast while they gave original characters dozens and dozens of episodes to develop before coming to a judgement for them, that seems strange in a long winded show like dragon ball.

So maybe if you gave time to wait like you did with the others you will finally get something like that. So be patient and let's have fun with this and if you can't enjoy other characters while we wait instead of this extremely early in extremely un-justified under-cutting of a character that was never the standard for other characters before this for some reason that was made up now specially for her.

[Kinokima]

Everyone's already sang praises for this Episode so I won't do that (This shit was spectacular though)

God, I'm really disliking how they're writing Vegeta this arc, going all "VEGETA-SAMAAAA" every Episode and not wanting to help Goku's spirit bomb. I hope he gets a reality check by Jiren, it's almost like he's going back to being his Android Saga self, the worst one.

Yeah he didn't give his energy but he blasted Ribiranne away so she wouldn't attack Goku from behind. So he still helped in his own way. Vegeta can be stubborn but I am still not seeing the Android/Cell Vegeta.

And he was about to tell Goku to rest at the end of the episode before Freeza took him away (Note I do agree with the theory that Freeza might actually be sharing some energy with Goku like Goku shared with him on Namek. That makes sense to me because obviously Freeza is not going to kill Goku).

Maybe I was wrong to call him that, but I still felt like that moment was weird. He could've just raised his hands after he blasted Ribrianne to help his homie

Don't get me wrong I agree with you I didn't like how that scene was handled at all especially since there didn't seem to be any real reasoning behind it. But I just wanted to point out he also wasn't being completely unhelpful to Goku either this episode.

But my main point is Vegeta not being perfect doesn't mean he's regressed as a character either. I guess Vegeta is sometimes still going to be Vegeta.

[Asura]

Do people hate Ribrianne because they're embarrassed to admit they're watching a show with Ribrianne in it?

Because Ribrianne wouldn't even crack the top five for me in terms of embarrassing things in Dragon Ball, and her fight and comedy beats this episode were solid.

Some fragile sense of masculinity here.

Oh please. It has nothing to do with "fragile masculinity". The character is simply one dimensional as hell, annoying, and has easily overstayed her welcome. Everything is just love this, love that, love love love without any explanation as to what the hell shes even going on about. At least the Pride Troopers have a little more dialogue than just constantly shouting JUSTICE! At least we've seen what this "justice" is that they're fighting for as opposed to just baselessly shouting "love" over and over. This "parody" has already turned into a bad parody.

Couple that with the fact that her design is sinisterly ugly and you've got one shitty character in your hands.

What is more surprising are fans trying to Judge, Jury and take her down with only four episodes of development at best. SMH.

Most likely you would get more of what is needed if you would allow the character to develop more beyond this. Seems more to me fans are hyper actively jumping on her to get rid of her extremely fast while they gave original characters dozens and dozens of episodes to develop before coming to a judgement for them, that seems strange in a long winded show like dragon ball.

So maybe if you gave time to wait like you did with the others you will finally get something like that. So be patient and let's have fun with this and if you can't enjoy other characters while we wait instead of this extremely early in extremely un-justified under-cutting of a character that was never the standard for other characters before this for some reason that was made up now specially for her.

Four episodes of development? Sorry, but where exactly is the development here? She's already had four episodes to be judged by and she's exactly the same in every single episode. You could even argue that she gets worse with every episode because of how much she just repeats the same gimmick over and over again.

It's not too early to judge, and it's not extremely unjustified either. She's had a lot of screen time and shows no signs of being anything but a horrible parody that sounds like a broken record.

[Freeza9000]

Your expectations are out of whack if this seriously disappointed you that much. Wasn't even close to a "fuck up". They nailed pretty much everything except the writing in CERTAIN parts. That's not enough to warrant that severe of a reaction.

I wasn't expecting great writing considering who was writing the eps and just how terrible Super is in general. Between that, what I said (which were the important parts essentially) and Goku in his Ultra Instinct-Omen state vs Jiren being under 3 min in a 52 min TV "special" that has been heavily hyped and marketed for a month, yes, I do consider it a failure. But like I said, the animation was cool and some of the music was on point, at least early on.

Did it really only last 3 minutes? Because I wouldn't be surprised. How fast the fight came and went was one of my major complaints for this episode. Surprised that no one else is really taking issue with how rushed all the fighting was.

I mean, if cut out some of the commentary from the other gods, especially the ones whose universes isn't even in competition..........

[Spider-Man]

It't time to review the special

Thing that I like

-Ok the fight of goku vs jiren was lit it was so epic to watch.

-Goku new form look cool.

-The scene where belmoud talk to jiren was good.

-Beerus was well characterize in this special.

-Those comment with the god are pretty good and zeno is really cute.

-The ending was good so excited to see hit vs jiren and frieza & goku.

Thing that i'm mixed on

-Ribrianne in general while i do find her funny as well i like her voice but the constant love stuff got old old real fast as well her ability wasn't that impressive,really dissapointed with her character they better improved her character otherwise she is just a one note parody which i'm not impressed.

-The genki dama while the scene was really good and wonderfully animated but it kinda drag.

Thing that I dislike

-Vegeta not giving energy to goku was really selfish.

-Jiren is really boring despite him having a good design,voice and scene.

Overall this was a good special it one of the best episode of this saga and the new ending song was good as well i'm looking foward to see the next episode.