Ok.. so we agree then. That's what I was saying.Skar wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 12:29 pmYeah I meant Goku going all out from the beginning. Goku said he wanted to end the fight quickly so he went SSJ2 before before knowing Vegeta had that form yet. It's still possible Goku thought his SSJ2 was stronger than Vegeta's though and enough to win since he was surprised that they were equal in that form.dva_raza wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 9:54 pmWell that's the thing. I disagree with the bolded part.
I've actualy emphasized a few times that Goku didn't know how strong Vegeta was. He was genuinely surprised when he realized Vegeta had SS2 now.
Which is very relevant because that's the simple reason for not pulling out something as hefty and risky as this untested form was. Why use it, if you don't actually need it?
You maybe think it would've been better to go all in from the start, just in case, but he clearly thought it was better to be cautious and not go all if it's not yet necessary (which is what he thought to be the case) and that's valid too. It's just different approaches to problem solving.
He simply didn't expect Vegeta to be stronger than what he was assuming so he thought his SS2 would be enough to beat him until Vegeta pulls it out too.
So I think think the whole thing comes down to that. He miscalculated. It wasn't intentional nor it is as obvious as it seems to be for most that he had to use SS3.
That's a perfect way to put it. Goku’s role is the hero (kinda forgot about that).Well it's a neverending discussion about who's most responsible. I think blaming Goku is like if Superman or Batman are blamed for not making the best decisions when it comes to dealing with their villains. The heroes could've killed or incapacitated the villains quicker before something worse happened but the heroes were forced into that position. I think what matters is how they try to fix it after that happens.
So the superhero's actions in stopping the problem shouldn't be correlated with the antagonist's actions when judging or analyzing the antagonist's actions which is supposedly the purpose of this thread.
Mixing the two conversations is basically arguing that the villain wasn't THAT bad..because well, the hero didn't stop him, otherwise I don't understand the point.
I honestly don't see that Vegeta showed more appreciation than Frieza. Frieza's goal was just different.Vegeta showed more "appreciation" for being resurrected compared to Freeza. In the Cell saga, he was only interested in defeating Goku and wasn't going to threaten the planet anymore.
Vegeta's goal was to defeat Goku as you say. Of course he wouldn't destroy the planet? He had nowhere else to go lol.
Not ..sure what you meant here?Also it didn't help that he killed around thousand of his own troops in RoF. This is worse than Vegeta since Freeza's army was there for the taking but he decided to live on Earth waiting for Goku.
I had thought about this too actually.super michael wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 12:55 pm Vegeta could have got possessed on purpose and defeat Babidi and Dabura, so Buu doesn't get resurrected and then fight Goku. But no Vegeta had to focus only on Goku and nothing else, even allowing Buu to resurrect. Vegeta didn't care about Buu resurrection.
Vegeta could have taken maters into his own hands and end the bigger threat immediately after becoming Majin and then proceed to fight Goku. Clearly it wasn't just about fighting Goku, he wanted to affect and hurt him as much as possible. He used his own family's safety to get Goku's attention. What a guy lol.