The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[CatouttaHell]

Gohan was not going full power against Goten. That's his brother and they were sparing. Gohan told Goten to go full power to test his strength. If Gohan wanted he could put Goten into the dirt in an instant. We have no idea how strong the kids got after ROSAT. They probably didn't even achieve Ssj2 separately.

Conjecture. Both Son Goten and Son Gohan had auras during their second, completely even spar session, indicating that they were at full power.

Even during their first spar Goten did so well that Gohan had to fly up to get away from him.

You have a point about Goku in movie 12 being haxed like he always is in the movies, but even a cannon Gogeta shouldn't be so far behind Vegetto. I mean, can you even tell me why the potara fusion is that much better than the dance?

A lot of what you are saying is just speculation about Vegetto and Boo speaking of a "Gogeta's" power.

Gohan-Boo said Vegeta wouldn't stand a chance even if he fused. Not only was it not contradicted, but Vegetto even said he didn't expect to make such a big fool out of him.

Nothing in the manga indicates Gogeta is anything but a housefly compared to Vegetto IMO.

[Son_Gohan]

Gohan-Boo said Vegeta wouldn't stand a chance even if he fused. Not only was it not contradicted, but Vegetto even said he didn't expect to make such a big fool out of him.

Buu boasts the same thing even after Vegetto transforms into SSj, and after getting his attack deflected, and after getting kicked in the face...

[dprez]

Gohan was not going full power against Goten. That's his brother and they were sparing. Gohan told Goten to go full power to test his strength. If Gohan wanted he could put Goten into the dirt in an instant. We have no idea how strong the kids got after ROSAT. They probably didn't even achieve Ssj2 separately.

Conjecture. Both Son Goten and Son Gohan had auras during their second, completely even spar session, indicating that they were at full power.


Even during their first spar Goten did so well that Gohan had to fly up to get away from him.

Sorry but that doesn't mean they were at full power...maybe Goten was sure, because Gohan told him to come at him with everything, but seriously dude, Gohan is stronger than his little 7 year old brother, and obviously was holding back.

Gohan-Boo said Vegeta wouldn't stand a chance even if he fused. Not only was it not contradicted, but Vegetto even said he didn't expect to make such a big fool out of him.

Buu boasts the same thing even after Vegetto transforms into SSj, and after getting his attack deflected, and after getting kicked in the face...

This. Boo is always gonna be cocky no matter what with the kind of power he had after absorbing Gohan.

[CatouttaHell]

Buu boasts the same thing even after Vegetto transforms into SSj, and after getting his attack deflected, and after getting kicked in the face...

Gohan-Boo > Super Vegetto was contradicted, Gohan-Boo >>> SSjin 3 Gogeta wasn't.

Sorry but that doesn't mean they were at full power...maybe Goten was sure, because Gohan told him to come at him with everything, but seriously dude, Gohan is stronger than his little 7 year old brother, and obviously was holding back.

Do you have proof for any of your apparently factual claims?

[hleV]

Buu boasts the same thing even after Vegetto transforms into SSj, and after getting his attack deflected, and after getting kicked in the face...

Gohan-Boo > Super Vegetto was contradicted, Gohan-Boo >>> SSjin 3 Gogeta wasn't.

Since Gohan-Boo was wrong with one statement, it's very well possible that the other similar one was incorrect as well.

[dprez]

Sorry but that doesn't mean they were at full power...maybe Goten was sure, because Gohan told him to come at him with everything, but seriously dude, Gohan is stronger than his little 7 year old brother, and obviously was holding back.

Do you have proof for any of your apparently factual claims?

Yea, the entire part of the story where Gohan and Goten are fighting. It's should be common sense that Gohan is stronger. All his statement meant was that Trunks and Goten were close to his own Ssj form's power. That's exactly what he says.

He has an adult body and is still a FPSsj unlike his little brother and cousin, who didn't do any kind of training to be able to just chill in the Ssj forms with ease.

Chapter: 427 (DBZ 233), P12.2-6
Context: after Gohan and Goten spar a little bit
Goten: “But you really are amazing, big brother! I couldn’t even hit you once.”
Gohan: “You’re very gifted at grappling too, Goten! You really surprised me! I hadn’t known you were that good! If you train well, maybe you’ll be able to enter the Tenkaichi Budoukai too!”
Goten: “Really!? But Trunks is even stronger than me. We play-fight together!”
Gohan: “Really!? That’s how you guys have been playing?...*thinking* If I’m not careful, I’ll be outstripped…by these little squirts…”

“But you really are amazing, big brother! I couldn’t even hit you once.”- Even if you believe Gohan wasn't holding back, Goten still couldn't hit him.

"If you train well, maybe you’ll be able to enter the Tenkaichi Budoukai too!". - This means that you still aren't at my level.

If I’m not careful, I’ll be outstripped…by these little squirts…” - There you go. If Gohan didn't get back into shape, and the kids keep on "play fighting" and grow up into their adult body's, they would surpass him.

[dario03]

Conjecture. Both Son Goten and Son Gohan had auras during their second, completely even spar session, indicating that they were at full power.

Even during their first spar Goten did so well that Gohan had to fly up to get away from him.

I don't think a aura necessarily means somebody is at full power. We see Auras a lot when people are just flying and Cell had a aura against Goku but he was holding back.

[dprez]

Sorry but that doesn't mean they were at full power...maybe Goten was sure, because Gohan told him to come at him with everything, but seriously dude, Gohan is stronger than his little 7 year old brother, and obviously was holding back.

Do you have proof for any of your apparently factual claims?

Conjecture. Both Son Goten and Son Gohan had auras during their second, completely even spar session, indicating that they were at full power.

Even during their first spar Goten did so well that Gohan had to fly up to get away from him.

I don't think a aura necessarily means somebody is at full power. We see Auras a lot when people are just flying and Cell had a aura against Goku but he was holding back.

Having an aura has never been stated or shown to always equal one's full power.

[Son_Gohan]

Buu boasts the same thing even after Vegetto transforms into SSj, and after getting his attack deflected, and after getting kicked in the face...

Gohan-Boo > Super Vegetto was contradicted, Gohan-Boo >>> SSjin 3 Gogeta wasn't.

That's special pleading. If your premise is just based upon a statement that he made, the credibility of his claims are not to automatically be taken as absolute fact. Evidently, he's unwilling to recognize someone's power as being superior to his even when it's right in front of him. So for him to fathom the power of some hypothetical being hardly constitutes something rational. He could not possibly know that, just as he never expected Vegetto to be that strong.

[Saiga]

Conjecture. Both Son Goten and Son Gohan had auras during their second, completely even spar session, indicating that they were at full power.

As people have already stated, having an aura doesn't mean one is at full power.

Even during their first spar Goten did so well that Gohan had to fly up to get away from him.

He didn't fly up to get away from him, because he didn't know Goten couldn't fly. He was just trying to take the battle to the skies.

Gohan-Boo > Super Vegetto was contradicted, Gohan-Boo >>> SSjin 3 Gogeta wasn't.

It couldn't be contradicted because we obviously have never seen Gogeta in the manga. Just because Boo states it doesn't mean it's true until contradicted. It needs to be proven or it's just a boast, and it was never proven.

[Fox666]

He didn't fly up to get away from him, because he didn't know Goten couldn't fly. He was just trying to take the battle to the skies.

Gohan was dodging Goten's attacks, and choose to fly because they were on top of a cliff.

As people have already stated, having an aura doesn't mean one is at full power.

I suppose so, but Gohan seems to be having a hard time training with Goten.

[Mystic Gohan]

If you ask me, i think gohan was just surprised that goten was that powerful. Plus its not like gohan is actually gonna try to hurt his brother. Goten has the chance to go all out without worry of hurting gohan, because he believes gohan to be way superior to him, while gohan can't try to hurt goten.

[NANLIT]

Funny that he was worrying that Goten and Trunks would surpass him and then he gets a major power-up that allows him to surpass SSJ3 Gotenks and then in those 10 years afterwards, neither of the 3 are into training much so Gohan's still way more powerful than Goten and Trunks.

[dprez]

As people have already stated, having an aura doesn't mean one is at full power.

I suppose so, but Gohan seems to be having a hard time training with Goten.

So what. Gohan was not trying his hardest against his little brother.

[hleV]

People seem to have too big of a problem for Goten (who was trained by Chi Chi and play-fought Trunks) to be on par with Gohan (who has gotten weaker during 7 years). Why is that? Naturally Gohan, after training for a month or so, should've regained some of his skill and possibly power, ending up stronger than Goten at the time of the Tenkaichi Budokai.

[Saiga]

People seem to have too big of a problem for Goten (who was trained by Chi Chi and play-fought Trunks) to be on par with Gohan (who has gotten weaker during 7 years). Why is that? Naturally Gohan, after training for a month or so, should've regained some of his skill and possibly power, ending up stronger than Goten at the time of the Tenkaichi Budokai.

Personally I believe that Gohan didn't actually lose any stregth, but he lost the ability to draw strength from his anger, making him weaker than his enraged Cell Games self. Apparently this is backed up by one of the Daizenshuu.

[Piccolo Daimao]

People seem to have too big of a problem for Goten (who was trained by Chi Chi and play-fought Trunks) to be on par with Gohan (who has gotten weaker during 7 years). Why is that? Naturally Gohan, after training for a month or so, should've regained some of his skill and possibly power, ending up stronger than Goten at the time of the Tenkaichi Budokai.

Personally I believe that Gohan didn't actually lose any stregth, but he lost the ability to draw strength from his anger, making him weaker than his enraged Cell Games self. Apparently this is backed up by one of the Daizenshuu.

Agreed. Not to mention the fact that nothing at all suggests that Goten is on par with Gohan, and if he was, that would make Trunks, who's stronger than Goten, stronger than Gohan, which obviously isn't the case.

Just because Gohan was sweating during a sparring session with Goten doesn't mean that Goten's even remotely close to him. He's somewhat rusty (which doesn't equal a drop in power) and was merely surprised that his little brother is so strong. Goten himself says that he couldn't even hit Gohan once, and we never see Gohan attack Goten either.

Are we going to argue that Trunks is close to Vegeta now, just because he managed to land a punch on his face? Because I could easily turn around and say that Vegeta countering with one blow hurt Trunks even more, making him cry.

[hleV]

nothing at all suggests that Goten is on par with Gohan

Daizenshuu does.

[Piccolo Daimao]

nothing at all suggests that Goten is on par with Gohan

Daizenshuu does.

Either they made an error, since it directly contradicts what we're shown in the manga, or it's poor wording that was actually meant to mean that Goten's dormant power is on par with Gohan's.

[Fox666]

Or it just means he is on par with Gohan, and you are over-analyzing what "on par" means.