HybridSaiyan wrote:A Man named RJ wrote:HybridSaiyan wrote:
Maybe this piece of animation would be acceptable if he was in base form? But as a SSJ2, it looks underwhelming.
Why is it unacceptable? because it's ground fighting?
Whats wrong with ground fighting?
If anything it adds a LOT of diversity. every fight since the SAIYAN saga has been an areal flurry of 5 punch and kick frames on repeat, and actual, mapped out choreography is "underwhelming"? I'd say the opposite. DBZ needs more of this... a Lot more of this. regardless of form. it serves as a nice breakdown from all the insane areal acrobatics and doesn't need to be the whole fight - but it does add flavor and above all MARTIAL ARTS
It's supposed to be a "martial arts" series, yet it has no real martial arts anymore because of all the areal acrobatics. This shows control, and mechanical movement to a fight scene.
I'm not meaning that, I'm fine with ground fighting and referring back to the original dragon ball fights in the tournaments. That was filled with nice choreography, however for goku to be in SSJ2 and fighting so slowly, without any weight or impact in his punches seems off. It felt more vigorous during the ground fight with him and Majin Vegeta. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED MORE OF. lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsVG7_Vr0nw
Disagreeing entirely still.
All they had to do, was correct the background sliding under Goku's feet
As a breakdown from vigorous fight to some slower, fluid ground fighting is just fine. That Choreography you showed me was just cheap. it's nothing but medium shot and closeups - on a few punches there is 0 regard for posing, and 0 regard for thinking out the natural consequences of that movement. On top of that it lacks secondary action. in fact the Only really decent shots in that scene are the very first shot and maybe Vegeta kneeing goku. this is even more slow, and cheap because it lacks a full body shot during the actual altercation
For instance in the original gif, when Goku punches, his leg has to slide forward, when he makes an attempt to leg swipe, green kai (too tired to remember his name), the natural response is to back his leg up, and readjust his balance. THAT is actual fight coreography. It's not trying to take any shortcuts by cutting away all the time, it's giving an impressive two-shot fight, using realistic martial arts.
I could argue that most anime nowadays have fight scenes that trump most of Z's despite having technically weaker characters. the strength of the character isnt really what matters, no matter how strong or fast goku is, he's going back to basics, what matters is the direciting and the spectacle . Something like
this or
this will stick longer than that entire video, because actual thought has to be put into position of the characters, their props, the physics around the characters etc shows more attention to detail, and an overall love of the medium being worked with.
This is why people say the shot was too short. it didnt get enough time to blossom into one of the most well-thought out cuts in Super when it easily had the potential to, given 2-3 more seconds.
Speaking of "slow attacks" most of Dragon ball since the very first tournament has fights playing out in Cinematic time. Hell, there are multiple exposition jokes in said tournaments where Goku and his opponent talk about something that happened in a flash. In fact during the second and third tournaments we see the viewing audience usually cannot see the fights that we- the show's viewers see. So for the sake of an awesome shot, something moving slowly but fluidly is just fine for a couple of seconds of an entire fight.
RealtreeByGod wrote:Show, don't tell. The animation needs to convey the power and strength of everyone. We shouldn't need a dumb headcannon handwave to explain things.
This isnt a headcanon. There were 3 major jokes dedicated to this very concept in
DRAGON BALL First when Goku and Jackie Chun have a quick mid-air clash, Again when goku and Kuririn have a too fast to see squabble and another time when Goku grabs Roshi's Sunglasses during the fight with tienshinhan. Also, There are several moments in Z where the fighting is at a visible pace, then it breaks off to what an actual Human sees - you see this a couple of times in the Buu saga.
Dragon Ball is not the only action anime to have done this ever.
One Piece has BOTH versions of the Chinjao fight
A lot of the Chimera Ant arc from Hunter x Hunter happens in 30 minute episoed that convey a couple of seconds
Yu Yu Hakusho revels in it. a lot of the fights can really be moving at hypersonic speeds but keeps the complex action slow
Most fighting Shonen do this.
When I refer to it as a break down I specifically mean that breif moment where speed ceseases to be, and we're seeing the art of it slowed down for a nice choreographics flair. The original gif in particular has nothing wrong with it's fighting choreography. The best thing i can compare this to, is whenever music goes on a slow break take, for instance
Just Awake there is a moment where all the heavy metal stops, and a piano plays, calming the music before the upcoming hard guitar riffs and screaming pick back up.
And this is animation, timing is free and up to the director. maybe a scene isnt SUPPOSED to convey high-speed intensity, rather the actual
form of the characters in their fight. If you want
High Speedintensity, It's not
like Super doesnt have itStop pretending it doesnt.
That said, could some of the fights be sped up? absolutely but we all know super doesnt have the time budget to allow that. the faster the fight, the shorter the fight, which means more animation required elsewhere.
, Goten, Buu, and Gohan 
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