"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Hellspawn28]

It also surprises me how many people want GT to be tie in with Super when most people for years want a new series that wanted nothing to do with GT. Also people tend to get upset when they rehash things in the series and people want Super to revisit ideas from GT? I rather Super to do new things and we have been getting more new original content since January of this year. Goku Black arc is pretty original if you ask me.

[kinisking]

If there's one thing they could take from GT without making it explicit and actually integrate it fairly well is how to write Goku. In GT, despite being a child, they manage to write him as a fun loving, battle seeking but also surprisingly mature when the situation calls for it. Super Goku is bar none the most insufferable version of him I've seen, he's leaps and bounds stupider now than he ever was even as a kid. Except then he was a hick living in the woods, now he's 40 something with lots of experience under his belt but considerably stupider than ever before. How the hell does that work?

I blame Vegeta. Sounds crazy, but hear me out. Vegeta's been marketed way more than before. He's right there in the opening along side Goku and it's called the Goku AND Vegeta show for a reason by some fans. So why does this make Goku and idiot? Because they have to make Goku and Vegeta look more unique when compared to each other. Their personalities have to bounce off each other and provide some chemistry. So they made Goku look like the goofy idiot, and Vegeta the smart and serious one. In DBZ, it was Gohan who was the second in importance. This actually helped Goku's character develop because he fell into a mentor role. We don't have that anymore.

Not a bad theory, however, I'm not sure if Vegeta being just the serious one completely applies. The show doesn't stray from making him look like a jackass too, especially in earlier episodes where he's involved in all sorts of things you wouldn't usually associate with the character. If they simply gave Goku some more range, that would help matters out but they don't: he's 100% retarded 100% of the time. Even when it looks like he's taking things seriously for a bit nothing comes of it.

If in Z Vegeta got stabbed in the chest, Goku wouldn't come at Black with an excited look on his face but he'd know this is a guy not to screw around with anymore. In Super? Vegeta gets stabbed and then he's like "Yay! Its my turn now!". It also doesn't help that Nozawa is clearly being made to voice him in that constant go lucky mood of his to emphasize that this is in fact the stupidest version of Goku of all time ever.

Vegeta has his rare goofy moments, and Goku has his rare serious moments. I can't think of Vegeta being goofy in Champa or FT arc. The bingo and training under Whis seems are the only times I can remember in Super.

Idk, I think he took Black fight pretty seriously. He did have a serious face the vast majority of the time, told trunks not to fight, went to ssb right away. So i'll give the writers that one.

I can't comment on Nozawa because I've never watched Z in japanese but i'll take your word for it.

[ekrolo2]

Vegeta has his rare goofy moments, and Goku has his rare serious moments. I can't think of Vegeta being goofy in Champa or FT arc. The bingo and training under Whis seems are the only times I can remember in Super.

Idk, I think he took Black fight pretty seriously. He did have a serious face the vast majority of the time, told trunks not to fight, went to ssb right away. So i'll give the writers that one.

I can't comment on Nozawa because I've never watched Z in japanese but i'll take your word for it.

He left the Senzu beans in the bathroom, he doesn't take jack shit about Black seriously just by virtue of something that stupid. Even during the fight I get the sense Goku doesn't care about any of this or has any stakes in it so even if the writers think they're giving us "serious Goku" it falls flat because he's a big load of nothing in the show. If he did, he'd have just used Kaio-ken (or does that not exist anymore, Toei, like half the stuff from the anime you bring up?) and ended the fight that way.

It's especially annoying because the F arc tries to make it a point about how he'd avoid bad situations if he stopped being a moron about things and then they have him pull this kind of stuff.

[kinisking]

Vegeta has his rare goofy moments, and Goku has his rare serious moments. I can't think of Vegeta being goofy in Champa or FT arc. The bingo and training under Whis seems are the only times I can remember in Super.

Idk, I think he took Black fight pretty seriously. He did have a serious face the vast majority of the time, told trunks not to fight, went to ssb right away. So i'll give the writers that one.

I can't comment on Nozawa because I've never watched Z in japanese but i'll take your word for it.

He left the Senzu beans in the bathroom, he doesn't take jack shit about Black seriously just by virtue of something that stupid. Even during the fight I get the sense Goku doesn't care about any of this or has any stakes in it so even if the writers think they're giving us "serious Goku" it falls flat because he's a big load of nothing in the show. If he did, he'd have just used Kaio-ken (or does that not exist anymore, Toei, like half the stuff from the anime you bring up?) and ended the fight that way.

It's especially annoying because the F arc tries to make it a point about how he'd avoid bad situations if he stopped being a moron about things and then they have him pull this kind of stuff.

Yeah, he wasn't really taking it seriously before. However, when Vegeta got stabbed, I think he changed. Kaioken doesn't exist anymore man, that's definitely toei. Also, I agree. One of the reasons i hate ROF.

[kinisking]

Vegeta has his rare goofy moments, and Goku has his rare serious moments. I can't think of Vegeta being goofy in Champa or FT arc. The bingo and training under Whis seems are the only times I can remember in Super.

Idk, I think he took Black fight pretty seriously. He did have a serious face the vast majority of the time, told trunks not to fight, went to ssb right away. So i'll give the writers that one.

I can't comment on Nozawa because I've never watched Z in japanese but i'll take your word for it.

He left the Senzu beans in the bathroom, he doesn't take jack shit about Black seriously just by virtue of something that stupid. Even during the fight I get the sense Goku doesn't care about any of this or has any stakes in it so even if the writers think they're giving us "serious Goku" it falls flat because he's a big load of nothing in the show. If he did, he'd have just used Kaio-ken (or does that not exist anymore, Toei, like half the stuff from the anime you bring up?) and ended the fight that way.

It's especially annoying because the F arc tries to make it a point about how he'd avoid bad situations if he stopped being a moron about things and then they have him pull this kind of stuff.

Yeah, he wasn't really taking it seriously before. However, when Vegeta got stabbed, I think he changed. Kaioken doesn't exist anymore man, that's definitely toei. Also, I agree about the F arc "developments". One of the reasons i hate ROF.

[Anime Kitten]

In Super? Vegeta gets stabbed and then he's like "Yay! Its my turn now!"

No. He wasn't. He stayed serious and IIRC he never smiled until he got revived with the Senzu.

[ekrolo2]

In Super? Vegeta gets stabbed and then he's like "Yay! Its my turn now!"

No. He wasn't. He stayed serious and IIRC he never smiled until he got revived with the Senzu.

Yeah, he never smiles
[spoiler][/spoiler]

He also doesn't sound serious or concerned or anything but excited after he witnesses Vegeta go down. And even then, he's such a nothing character even when they try to write him as taking things seriously, they shit on it by having him forget goddamn Senzu beans in the bathroom!

[Doctor.]

That's more of a cocky smile than him being excited. If he was excited, he'd have those wide open eyes that he normally has. Goku's voice was serious the whole time and the fact that Trunks noted that Goku went full-power from the start is a clue to the audience that Goku is not fucking around and is being serious.

[HeroR]

Vegeta has his rare goofy moments, and Goku has his rare serious moments. I can't think of Vegeta being goofy in Champa or FT arc. The bingo and training under Whis seems are the only times I can remember in Super.

Idk, I think he took Black fight pretty seriously. He did have a serious face the vast majority of the time, told trunks not to fight, went to ssb right away. So i'll give the writers that one.

I can't comment on Nozawa because I've never watched Z in japanese but i'll take your word for it.

He left the Senzu beans in the bathroom, he doesn't take jack shit about Black seriously just by virtue of something that stupid. Even during the fight I get the sense Goku doesn't care about any of this or has any stakes in it so even if the writers think they're giving us "serious Goku" it falls flat because he's a big load of nothing in the show. If he did, he'd have just used Kaio-ken (or does that not exist anymore, Toei, like half the stuff from the anime you bring up?) and ended the fight that way.

It's especially annoying because the F arc tries to make it a point about how he'd avoid bad situations if he stopped being a moron about things and then they have him pull this kind of stuff.

Yeah, he wasn't really taking it seriously before. However, when Vegeta got stabbed, I think he changed. Kaioken doesn't exist anymore man, that's definitely toei. Also, I agree about the F arc "developments". One of the reasons i hate ROF.

Not sure why keep saying the Kaio-Ken is gone. It isn't like Goku had time to use it. Do you honestly think Black and Zamasu was going to stand there and let Goku charge the Kaio-Ken like Hit did?

Also, so what if the Kaio-Ken it Toei's idea. It isn't like the old days when they follow the manga. They follow a loose outline and can add what they want, just like the Super manga sticking Super Saiyan God in places.

[Sodhi]

Goku does that a lot.
[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

[ekrolo2]

That's more of a cocky smile than him being excited. If he was excited, he'd have those wide open eyes that he normally has. Goku's voice was serious the whole time and the fact that Trunks noted that Goku went full-power from the start is a clue to the audience that Goku is not fucking around and is being serious.

Yeah, he's so serious he sounds like a giddy school girl when he powers up and forgets Kaio-ken AND to bring Senzu, Goku takes nothing seriously about this entire situation. He's just being a total moron.

Not sure why keep saying the Kaio-Ken is gone. It isn't like Goku had time to use it. Do you honestly think Black and Zamasu was going to stand there and let Goku charge the Kaio-Ken like Hit did?

Also, so what if the Kaio-Ken it Toei's idea. It isn't like the old days when they follow the manga. They follow a loose outline and can add what they want, just like the Super manga sticking Super Saiyan God in places.

Because Toei's done this already like the Book of Namekian Legends, Whis' ROSAT, keeping your aura in then promptly discarding them like they never happened. You can't give your character a power up that's really useful then pretend like it never happened because reasons, that's not how good writing works. Either make use of the concept you've brought up or don't put it in.

Also, Trunks can take on Zamasu just fine and Black is interested in getting stronger while fighting Goku, so yeah, if Goku looked like he could give him even more power, you bet your ass Black would just let him power up. It wouldn't be the first time someone stood like an utter jackass while his opponent powered up when they could use that opportunity to kill them in this franchise.

[Doctor.]

Yeah, he's so serious he sounds like a giddy school girl when he powers up and forgets Kaio-ken AND to bring Senzu, Goku takes nothing seriously about this entire situation. He's just being a total moron.

When did he sound like a giddy school girl? Vegeta was knocked down, Goku told Trunks two things: to stay back and to take care of Vegeta. Then he powered-up with a generic "AH!" and went to fight Black. Not once did he moan or scream in excitement like he usually does.

He doesn't use Kaioken because it not only does he have a 90% chance of dying if he uses it, he'll also end up in a wheelchair after the fact. At the moment it's a useless technique and Goku was reckless enough already to have used it once against Hit.

The Senzu thing was dumb.

[ekrolo2]

Yeah, he's so serious he sounds like a giddy school girl when he powers up and forgets Kaio-ken AND to bring Senzu, Goku takes nothing seriously about this entire situation. He's just being a total moron.

When did he sound like a giddy school girl? Vegeta was knocked down, Goku told Trunks two things: to stay back and to take care of Vegeta. Then he powered-up with a generic "AH!" and went to fight Black. Not once did he moan or scream in excitement like he usually does.

He doesn't use Kaioken because it not only does he have a 90% chance of dying if he uses it, he'll also end up in a wheelchair after the fact. At the moment it's a useless technique and Goku was reckless enough already to have used it once against Hit.

The Senzu thing was dumb.

He sounds giddy precisely when he's walking up to fight Black, there's even a smile on his face that you can make out when his face is half covered just before he powers up. As for Kaio-ken, that whole mess is a clusterfuck of retcons that didn't need to exist but if you're going to bring it up, use it. Black is already fighting Goku to raise his own power some more so they've even got a plausible reason for why he'd do nothing when Goku's powering up for once. Plus, you've got another way to explain it by saying Goku's just worked out the kinks for turning it on faster than he could before.

[TheMikado]

Seriously dude?? Look I can do it too

Beerus claims to have wiped out dinosaurs on Earth. However, Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z show that dinosaurs still exist on Earth.
Earth has continents that match the size and location of those in the real world. This is different than the Dragon World geography seen in Dragon Ball.
Therefore Super can't be canon and in the same continuity as the other series....

You can argue that the Capsule Corp found away to bring dinosaurs back to life. Why tie Super into GT? I feel like it would not work given how the power scaling for those two are way off. Also other character statements contradict with each other. I remember Goku told Super Yi Xing Long that "Out all of the people that I met in my life, you're the strongest" and yet Goku met the Omni-King in Super. I highly doubt Super Yi Xing Long is stronger than the Omni-King. Goku in GT also mention that he has not seen Kibitoshin and Elder Kai since Buu and yet in Super he has met them again a few years after Buu.

Super also contradicts the ending to the manga too given how they mention that it has been peaceful in the last 10 years when we know that is wrong. I think people should just move on from GT and that is not going to be revisit outside the video games. The show ended nearly 20 years ago and it's not relevant to today's TV audience.

You're missing the entire point of my post, this has nothing to with GT by itself. My point was that saying things like it can't be in the same continuity and story and is in some strange alternate timeline because of the way he'll works is a poor argument when you can apply the same logic to Z, Super, etc. It would be like me saying Super can't be in the main contuity for the reasons you pointed out. That's literally the worse reason possible. My only point was to show the flawed logic of arbitrary applying that line of thinking to something you don't like vs ignoring it for something you do like. That's all, I'm not trying to force GT into canon or Super out of it, I'm just stating that if you applied the same nitpick logic to take a things out of the main timeline, none of the series could work in the same continuity or universe.

[Doctor.]

Yeah, he's so serious he sounds like a giddy school girl when he powers up and forgets Kaio-ken AND to bring Senzu, Goku takes nothing seriously about this entire situation. He's just being a total moron.

When did he sound like a giddy school girl? Vegeta was knocked down, Goku told Trunks two things: to stay back and to take care of Vegeta. Then he powered-up with a generic "AH!" and went to fight Black. Not once did he moan or scream in excitement like he usually does.

He doesn't use Kaioken because it not only does he have a 90% chance of dying if he uses it, he'll also end up in a wheelchair after the fact. At the moment it's a useless technique and Goku was reckless enough already to have used it once against Hit.

The Senzu thing was dumb.

He sounds giddy precisely when he's walking up to fight Black, there's even a smile on his face that you can make out when his face is half covered just before he powers up. As for Kaio-ken, that whole mess is a clusterfuck of retcons that didn't need to exist but if you're going to bring it up, use it. Black is already fighting Goku to raise his own power some more so they've even got a plausible reason for why he'd do nothing when Goku's powering up for once. Plus, you've got another way to explain it by saying Goku's just worked out the kinks for turning it on faster than he could before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i59I3JnZNmo

2:18

I don't see a smile anywhere. Only later when he flies up and, like I said, that's more of a cocky "You're going down" smile.

Black can easily use the Kaioken too because he can just absorb his techniques or whatever, then Goku would be truly fucked.

[ekrolo2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i59I3JnZNmo

2:18

I don't see a smile anywhere. Only later when he flies up and, like I said, that's more of a cocky "You're going down" smile.

Black can easily use the Kaioken too because he can just absorb his techniques or whatever, then Goku would be truly fucked.

It's there when Trunks says damn then Goku pipes up like an idiot before transforming.

True, but if Goku went all out and tried to take Black out, he'd have a chance of ending the fight before Black could escalate the conflict by copying KK. Even the damage to Goku's boy isn't that big of a factor since Goku nearly kills himself anyway when he uses x3 then x4 against Vegeta and he was able to learn how to lessen the damage with more practice. There's really no reason for him not to use it besides Toei wanting us to forget it exists.

[nite_jay]

Goku probably left the senzu because they were all so cocky going in. Even when they get to the future and are about to go fight, you can tell they didn't think Black would be that strong. They were basically just waiting for Vegeta to finish pummeling Black so they could go home when the fight first started.

[TheMikado]

When did he sound like a giddy school girl? Vegeta was knocked down, Goku told Trunks two things: to stay back and to take care of Vegeta. Then he powered-up with a generic "AH!" and went to fight Black. Not once did he moan or scream in excitement like he usually does.

He doesn't use Kaioken because it not only does he have a 90% chance of dying if he uses it, he'll also end up in a wheelchair after the fact. At the moment it's a useless technique and Goku was reckless enough already to have used it once against Hit.

The Senzu thing was dumb.

He sounds giddy precisely when he's walking up to fight Black, there's even a smile on his face that you can make out when his face is half covered just before he powers up. As for Kaio-ken, that whole mess is a clusterfuck of retcons that didn't need to exist but if you're going to bring it up, use it. Black is already fighting Goku to raise his own power some more so they've even got a plausible reason for why he'd do nothing when Goku's powering up for once. Plus, you've got another way to explain it by saying Goku's just worked out the kinks for turning it on faster than he could before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i59I3JnZNmo

2:18

I don't see a smile anywhere. Only later when he flies up and, like I said, that's more of a cocky "You're going down" smile.

Black can easily use the Kaioken too because he can just absorb his techniques or whatever, then Goku would be truly fucked.

Goku could show him Kaioken x2, let him use it and proceed to go Kaioken x10. Or of course he could just go full KKx10 while his life and the entire future and universe hangs in the balance and completely decimate them so that he doesn't have to worry about it, but then I guess the arc would be over already...

[TheMikado]

Goku probably left the senzu because they were all so cocky going in. Even when they get to the future and are about to go fight, you can tell they didn't think Black would be that strong. They were basically just waiting for Vegeta to finish pummeling Black so they could go home when the fight first started.

I wonder if Goku forgets them in the Manga?

[Doctor.]

It's there when Trunks says damn then Goku pipes up like an idiot before transforming.

True, but if Goku went all out and tried to take Black out, he'd have a chance of ending the fight before Black could escalate the conflict by copying KK. Even the damage to Goku's boy isn't that big of a factor since Goku nearly kills himself anyway when he uses x3 then x4 against Vegeta and he was able to learn how to lessen the damage with more practice. There's really no reason for him not to use it besides Toei wanting us to forget it exists.

That's not a smile... you must be seeing things.

If you mean the very next scene where he's just standing and we see his full body, that's still not a smile and even if it was, it's too poorly drawn and small to accurately tell.

Well... there is, the fact that it only works 10% of the time, even the 2x version. They weren't that screwed that he'd risk so much.