"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

The real clincher in this silly "canon" debate will be the new film: does the film take after the manga, or the anime? Both in some combination? Neither?

The film looks like it even takes after the manga. It is using red Vegeta from the manga who wasn't in the anime. It has not shown KK Blue or "Beyond Blue" Vegeta.
Besides it by no means changes the fact that there is an official writing from Shueisha/Bird studios showing the Super manga is a "canonical sequel" to Toriyama's original Dragonball manga.
The "anime first" clinic can stay mad.

[sintzu]

The real clincher in this silly "canon" debate will be the new film: does the film take after the manga, or the anime? Both in some combination? Neither?

The film looks like it even takes after the manga. It is using red Vegeta from the manga who wasn't in the anime. It has not shown KK Blue or "Beyond Blue" Vegeta.
Besides it by no means changes the fact that there is an official writing from Shueisha/Bird studios showing the Super manga is a "canonical sequel" to Toriyama's original Dragonball manga.
The "anime first" clinic can stay mad.

The manga is already getting its version of the movie which according to Toriyama will be different.

[Grimlock]

The film looks like it even takes after the manga. It is using red Vegeta from the manga who wasn't in the anime. It has not shown KK Blue or "Beyond Blue" Vegeta.

The fact that Dragon Ball Super's Movie 1 is using something that only appeared in the manga does not necessarily means it takes place in Toyotaro's manga continuity. In Movie 14 Vegeta says he will become Super Saiyan God and Goku would have to colaborate; this may suggest that in Toriyama's continuity/in his eyes, Vegeta at some point did obtain Super Saiyan God through ritual. I can say Movie 1 is following Toriyama's continuity, which are the movies and that is why we are seeing Vegeta with Super Saiyan God.

Besides it by no means changes the fact that there is an official writing from Shueisha/Bird studios showing the Super manga is a "canonical sequel" to Toriyama's original Dragonball manga.

I believe you are referring to the footnote of that mural, well that actually does not say much. I would say it is more like those common credits that usually appear, like Akira Toriyama being credited for Dragon Ball GT, movies and such, despite having little involvement.

[Marlowe89]

The real clincher in this silly "canon" debate will be the new film: does the film take after the manga, or the anime? Both in some combination? Neither?

My money's still on "neither", but we'll see.

[Miracles]

The manga is already getting its version of the movie which according to Toriyama will be different.

We know the manga has different versions yet still stamped as the canonical sequel to DB.

The fact that Dragon Ball Super's Movie 1 is using something that only appeared in the manga does not necessarily means it takes place in Toyotaro's manga continuity. In Movie 14 Vegeta says he will become Super Saiyan God and Goku would have to colaborate; this may suggest that in Toriyama's continuity/in his eyes, Vegeta at some point did obtain Super Saiyan God through ritual. I can say Movie 1 is following Toriyama's continuity, which are the movies and that is why we are seeing Vegeta with Super Saiyan God.

I believe you are referring to the footnote of that mural, well that actually does not say much. I would say it is more like those common credits that usually appear, like Akira Toriyama being credited for Dragon Ball GT, movies and such, despite having little involvement.

The difference is the messages Shuiesha is backing here. The Super manga being "canonical" to Toriyama's OG manga is not the same as Shuiehsa stamping GT as a product of DB.
Toriyama's trailer solely using what the manga has shown [not the anime] backs this statement up even more so far.

[Grimlock]

The difference is the messages Shuiesha is backing here. The Super manga being "canonical" to Toriyama's OG manga is not the same as Shuiehsa stamping GT as a product of DB.
Toriyama's trailer solely using what the manga has shown not the anime, backs this up even more.

Again, as far as we can tell, that mural can very well be 100% another American thing, and we know that there is a trend in United States to make claims regarding to canonicity in Dragon Ball without anything official backing it up; Chris Sabat, an American voice actor, tends to say what is canonical and what is not, IGN itself recently said Movie 1 is canonical. Yet, we don't see any kind of claim in any Japanese material. Someone made that mural and obviously had to give credit but it's not like the ones that were credited were necessarily involved with the creation and content of that mural. Maybe it's Shueisha the responsible for marketing outside Japan? This would explain its name in the footnote.

[Doctor.]

The real clincher in this silly "canon" debate will be the new film: does the film take after the manga, or the anime? Both in some combination? Neither?

I kinda hope Goku uses Kaioken and Vegeta uses completed SSB just so the fanbase implodes.

[Saiga]

I think the movie will follow the anime for practical reasons, and it will have nothing to do with canon.

We know the manga will adapt the movie, and we've received no such news of the anime doing the same. I think the movie IS the anime version of the events, rather than something we'll get an anime-continuity retelling of later (that seems like a risky move).

It does look like Evolution and KK Blue won't appear, but that could just mean Toei are retiring them from anime continuity for the moment (and won't bother explaining that).

I feel like Toriyama wouldn't stop them adding it to the final product if they wanted to, though, so if they do appear I don't think it means the forms are canon to Toriyama.

[PFM18]

The real clincher in this silly "canon" debate will be the new film: does the film take after the manga, or the anime? Both in some combination? Neither?

I kinda hope Goku uses Kaioken and Vegeta uses completed SSB just so the fanbase implodes.

That would cause mass hysteria that this world has never seen.

The movie will likely follow the anime version of the events considering that we know that Toyotaro will do his iteration of the Broly story in the manga. It appears that the movie will follow the anime continuity and the manga is going to do it's own thing.

Toriyama's trailer solely using what the manga has shown [not the anime] backs this statement up even more so far.

\

Well, this is objectively false considering that SSB Goku in the trailer clearly has an aura and Completed SSB in the manga distinctly does not have an aura.

[Bergamo]

The real clincher in this silly "canon" debate will be the new film: does the film take after the manga, or the anime? Both in some combination? Neither?

I kinda hope Goku uses Kaioken and Vegeta uses completed SSB just so the fanbase implodes.

That would cause mass hysteria that this world has never seen.

The movie will likely follow the anime version of the events considering that we know that Toyotaro will do his iteration of the Broly story in the manga. It appears that the movie will follow the anime continuity and the manga is going to do it's own thing.

Toriyama's trailer solely using what the manga has shown [not the anime] backs this statement up even more so far.

\

Well, this is objectively false considering that SSB Goku in the trailer clearly has an aura and Completed SSB in the manga distinctly does not have an aura.

You could argue that Goku is sucking in the aura, because when he fights Broly he has no aura, so it might only be when he's powering up.

[Raphael_Z]

So...are we already at the end of the TOP in the manga?

Goku vs Jiren
Vegeta vs Toppo
Gohan vs Kefla (THE best change so far)
Roshi, Frieza and 17 vs Dyspo and the Coronel Pride Trooper

I have the feeling that Gohan will pull off the same auto-sacrifice move to ring out Kefla because I don't see him overpowering her.

Frieza will most likely beat Dyspo with the help of 17's barrier but both will get really injured in the process. Roshi will be the next of the heroes to fall although he will first take out the Coronel Pride Trooper dude.

I can see Vegeta ringing out Toppo, getting cocky then getting pwned by Jiren. It wouldn't be a good Super arc without Vegeta getting an epic beatdown.

[Miracles]

Again, as far as we can tell, that mural can very well be 100% another American thing, and we know that there is a trend in United States to make claims regarding to canonicity in Dragon Ball without anything official backing it up; Chris Sabat, an American voice actor, tends to say what is canonical and what is not, IGN itself recently said Movie 1 is canonical. Yet, we don't see any kind of claim in any Japanese material. Someone made that mural and obviously had to give credit but it's not like the ones that were credited were necessarily involved with the creation and content of that mural. Maybe it's Shueisha the responsible for marketing outside Japan? This would explain its name in the footnote.

Chris Sabat and IGN didn't say this, Shueisha who is not American had it written next to Toriyama's canon DB. A huge difference.

Well, this is objectively false considering that SSB Goku in the trailer clearly has an aura and Completed SSB in the manga distinctly does not have an aura.

SSB in the manga has an aura. Goku's aura vanishes when he absorbs that power into himself and becomes Master Blue. Then he fights with no aura, like he was doing in the Broly trailer.

[Saiga]

I'm not familiar with this mural. Can someone please show me?

[Black Hawk]

The fact that Dragon Ball Super's Movie 1 is using something that only appeared in the manga does not necessarily means it takes place in Toyotaro's manga continuity. In Movie 14 Vegeta says he will become Super Saiyan God and Goku would have to colaborate; this may suggest that in Toriyama's continuity/in his eyes, Vegeta at some point did obtain Super Saiyan God through ritual. I can say Movie 1 is following Toriyama's continuity, which are the movies and that is why we are seeing Vegeta with Super Saiyan God.

I would agree with this, but my one hangup with it is the fact (unless I'm remembering incorrectly) that Toriyama did not intend to have Vegeta use SSJ Red in the manga at all and that it was Toyotaro's idea.

My money's still on "neither", but we'll see.

Agreed. The Battle of Gods and Revival of F films don't seem to fit with either the manga or the anime continuity, so I'd bank on Broli being the same.

[Tai Lung]

I still do not see the point both have development as a warrior to improve their skills in fact hence the time skip is more effective also acquired a new ability Cage of Time.
besides that hit (anime) has better development not only as a warrior but also as a character in general when supporting his teammates which, as I said before , sincerely for me both cases are valuable

it only vegeta and it was when kale had finished with 4 universes and it was threatened by the universe 11
and before ... kale almost eliminates them to vegeta and toppo
As I said Goku and Frieza let her go ..

What's the problem with letting Kale go? Why expand energy to defeat her when Goku only cares for Jiren, Freeza has bigger plans, Vegeta gave his reasons and the pride troopers were handling her pretty good.

BTW Hit putting trust in his teammates isn't really development that is a contradiction of who he is. In the manga he stays in character and he develops his power unlike anime Hit. This is DB, a fighter manga where emotional bonds isn't put much stock into. This is why the manga is more like the old DB.

Kale literally banged against them and then they did not care even though Frieza did not want Goku to help him against her
nobody cares about the danger that is kale or if it kills someone who conveniently does not do it even though she out of control and everyone there is weak

but if I wanted to fight with goku against jiren ... So...
the members of the universe 6 are not enemies so it is not ... they are in a tournament where the survival of their universe depends on their victory and teamwork is key
all character in dragon ball can become stronger is the development of warrior is more easier but only some show that they can change as a person something that is an even greater achievement
piccolo and gohan, trunks and vegeta, mr satan and buu dragon ball is not just development as a warrior ... you are in a mistake

[Grimlock]

Chris Sabat and IGN didn't say this.

Didn't they? Then what are these?

I would agree with this, but my one hangup with it is the fact (unless I'm remembering incorrectly) that Toriyama did not intend to have Vegeta use SSJ Red in the manga at all and that it was Toyotaro's idea.

It was Toyotaro's idea to showcase Vegeta as Super Saiyan God, yes, but its concept is not Toyotaro's doing. And we know Toriyama changes a lot his mind, he said Goku wouldn't use Super Saiyan 2, 3 and God anymore but here we are.

[Black Hawk]

It was Toyotaro's idea to showcase Vegeta as Super Saiyan God, yes, but its concept is not Toyotaro's doing. And we know Toriyama changes a lot his mind, he said Goku wouldn't use Super Saiyan 2, 3 and God anymore but here we are.

A fair point. Was it stated officially that Toriyama had intended for Vegeta to possess SSJ Red? I've never read such, but it's always possible that I simply missed it.

[Grimlock]

A fair point. Was it stated officially that Toriyama had intended for Vegeta to possess SSJ Red? I've never read such, but it's always possible that I simply missed it.

It was stated in Movie 14.

[Black Hawk]

It was stated in Movie 14.

I'd thought about this as well, but I don't think the movie continuity and the manga continuity are quite compatible, given the whole SSJ Red level base forms in the films that are presumably absent entirely from the manga. Please don't misunderstand; I believe 100% that Vegeta acquired SSJ Red via the ritual between Battle of Gods and Revival of F in the manga continuity as well, but Vegeta stating himself to be next in line for SSJ Red doesn't necessarily guarantee that it happened in what Toriyama views as the progression of the story, if that makes sense.

[Miracles]

Didn't they? Then what are these?.

You misread me or I didn't express myself clearly. My point was Shueisha/Bird studios > some american fans.

Kale literally banged against them and then they did not care even though Frieza did not want Goku to help him against her
nobody cares about the danger that is kale or if it kills someone who conveniently does not do it even though she out of control and everyone there is weak

but if I wanted to fight with goku against jiren ... So...
the members of the universe 6 are not enemies so it is not ... they are in a tournament where the survival of their universe depends on their victory and teamwork is key
all character in dragon ball can become stronger is the development of warrior is more easier but only some show that they can change as a person something that is an even greater achievement
piccolo and gohan, trunks and vegeta, mr satan and buu dragon ball is not just development as a warrior ... you are in a mistake

Those are main stayers of DB, that's why they changed. Who said Hit has to change if he won't be part of the main cast? He is an assassin and was looking to get back at Goku. Nothing requires him to hold hands.

That's right, why should Goku or Freeza or anybody else from U7 worry about an enemy who is wrecking the other universes? Especially when the fighters could spot Kale's weakness and dwindling powers like Vegeta mentioned.