The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by In Brightest Day » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:52 pm

apex_pretador wrote:There are various reasons which lead me to believe that piccolo & buu arc SS gohan are comparable to each other. I can explain if needed.
Well, yeah. This is a discussion forum, that's why I asked. Why do you think Piccolo is stronger than SSJ Gohan?
On Olibu, he is a filler character. His strength is unknown.

First glance of Olibu - Puts up a decent effort against Pikkon, holding back, in weights. Pikkon with weights was weaker than base goku. So, that tells us that he is decently below base goku from cell arc.
You're right. There is no concrete way of finding out Olibu's strength. But if you treat the Manga and Anime as two completely separate entities, it's not hard to figure out where he would sit roughly in the grand scheme of things. Olibu vs. Paikuhan and weighted Paikuhan vs. base Goku were relatively identical fights, and although Goku did seem to be the strongest of the three I don't see any reason for why the three of them would be in a completely different league to each other.

I would never have the patience to do my own power level list (it would be pretty similar to Kaboom and DanielSSJ's lists anyway), but here are my totally made up/borrowed numbers for where I think the relevant characters would sit in relation to each other (in units of millions, to avoid flooding the post with excessive zeroes) :

Goku: 56.
-Mastered Super Saiyan: 2,800

Paikuhan: 54.
-Unweighted: 4,000
---Burning Shoot: 12,000

Olibu: 48.

Vegeta (Cell Games): 36.
-Super Saiyan: 1,800.

Perfect Cell: 4,500.
--Super Perfect: 7,000.

As far as the Anime earthlings are concerned, either you can simply ignore it (like this virile son of a bitch) or basically they just have to be really fucking strong. Someone came up with the theory that Krillin, Tenshinhan and Yamcha went into ROSAT in the anime (I think it was Randomguy96), and that kind of seems like the only logical reason for why they would be so much stronger than how they are depicted in the manga.
Second glance of olibu - Gets fodderized by Yamcha, who is bested by Krillin, who is weaker than Base buu arc kids.
True, but in the same arc King Kai has the great idea of sending Krillin and Yamcha to fight Majin Boo if Goku and Vegeta were to fail, claiming that they were the strongest fighters in the Otherworld. He says all of this while Paikuhan (the same guy who kicked the shit out of Super Perfect Cell) was probably standing about 50 meters from where this conversation was taking place. Going be your logic, Krillin and Yamcha (and therefore base Trunks and Goten) would be far, far beyond Super Perfect Cell. Can you see why a lot of people find it easier to keep the Manga and Anime separate from each other?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by In Brightest Day » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:54 am

Or to add to that last paragraph in layman's terms...

Base Trunks and Goten (anime) > Krillin (anime) > Yamcha (anime) > Paikuhan >> Super Perfect Cell >>>> Olibu >>> Krillin (manga) > Yamcha (manga).

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by LightBing » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:55 am

Goku (First Arc) vs Panput

King Cold vs Base Vegeta (Cell Games)


Yamcha (Android Arc) vs Kado

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Analytic » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm

LightBing wrote:Goku (First Arc) vs Panput
Panputto called casually destroying a tournament wall just a taste of his power, while it seemed to be implied that Goku needed the power he gained from his tail to do the same. Simply put: Panputto > 21st Goku (No tail) > Goku (First arc)
LightBing wrote:King Cold vs Base Vegeta (Cell Games)
I have Base Vegeta closing in on Android #18 at this point. Cold gets a foot through his chest.
LightBing wrote:Yamcha (Android Arc) vs Kado
Pass.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Noah » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:09 pm

New matches: (Zamasu runs the gauntlet):

Goku said that Zamasu may be stronger than all Kaioshin in U7, but he only met East Kaioshin and later Kibitoshin, could that be true?

- North Kaioshin

- East Kaioshin

- West Kaioshin

- South Kaioshin

- Kibitoshin

- Dai Kaioshin
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by In Brightest Day » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:46 pm

LightBing wrote:Goku (First Arc) vs Panput.
At the beginning of the series, Yamcha had the strength to kick Goku through three huge tree sized stone pillars. Goku was of course stronger than Yamcha. Panput thought breaking a small portion of a wall was a big deal, so Goku would certainly still beat him down pretty convincingly, although not as quickly as he did at the 22nd Budokai.
King Cold vs Base Vegeta (Cell Games).
Beerus confirmed that the base Saiyan's hadn't reached reached Freeza's full power in Battle of Gods, a full decade after the Cell Games. King Cold isn't quite Freeza's equal, but he is in the same general range of power. Vegeta is helpless here.
Yamcha (Android Arc) vs Kado.
Yamcha definitely peaked during the Android arc. Unfortunately for Kado, I think Yamcha peaked slightly above Piccolo after he fused with Nail on Namek, so even the slightly weaker Yamcha from "Yo! Son Goku and his friends return" would have defeated both Avo and Kado at the same time without breaking a sweat.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by In Brightest Day » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:56 am

Tenshinhan's Ki-Ko-Ho vs. A combined Kamehameha Wave from Krillin, Yamcha and Muten Roshi (eg Son Gohan, Son Goku and Son Goten from Movie 10).

Beginning of Z versions for all four.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Berserker1921 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:26 am

Zamasu runs the gauntlet; no magic or absorbing

1. Bojack
2. Super perfect Cell
3. Ssj2 Gohan (cell saga)
4. Majin Vegeta
5. Ssj2 Goku (buu saga)
6. Fat Buu
7. Kid Buu
8. Ssj3 Goku (buu saga)
9. Super Buu
10. Ssj3 gotenks
11. Ultimate Gohan
12. Buuhan

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:28 am

LightBing wrote:Goku (First Arc) vs Panput

King Cold vs Base Vegeta (Cell Games)


Yamcha (Android Arc) vs Kado
Panput defeats him handily. Gilan , who was weaker than pamput by a lot, was IMO, strong enough to defeat first arc goku.

BASE vegeta? I think he loses. BoG arc base vegeta will be more fair.

Yamcha wins.
Noah wrote:New matches: (Zamasu runs the gauntlet):

Goku said that Zamasu may be stronger than all Kaioshin in U7, but he only met East Kaioshin and later Kibitoshin, could that be true?

- North Kaioshin

- East Kaioshin

- West Kaioshin

- South Kaioshin

- Kibitoshin

- Dai Kaioshin
One shots them all.
In Brightest Day wrote:Tenshinhan's Ki-Ko-Ho vs. A combined Kamehameha Wave from Krillin, Yamcha and Muten Roshi (eg Son Gohan, Son Goku and Son Goten from Movie 10).

Beginning of Z versions for all four.
Unless Roshi is allowed to use his "full powered" moon busting kamehameha, no one stands a chance. If he uses that, then tenshinhan doesn't stand a chance.
Berserker1921 wrote:Zamasu runs the gauntlet; no magic or absorbing

1. Bojack
2. Super perfect Cell
3. Ssj2 Gohan (cell saga)
4. Majin Vegeta
5. Ssj2 Goku (buu saga)
6. Fat Buu
7. Kid Buu
8. Ssj3 Goku (buu saga)
9. Super Buu
10. Ssj3 gotenks
11. Ultimate Gohan
12. Buuhan
Clears handily.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:53 am

In Brightest Day wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:There are various reasons which lead me to believe that piccolo & buu arc SS gohan are comparable to each other. I can explain if needed.
Well, yeah. This is a discussion forum, that's why I asked. Why do you think Piccolo is stronger than SSJ Gohan?
Explained later.
On Olibu, he is a filler character. His strength is unknown.

First glance of Olibu - Puts up a decent effort against Pikkon, holding back, in weights. Pikkon with weights was weaker than base goku. So, that tells us that he is decently below base goku from cell arc.
You're right. There is no concrete way of finding out Olibu's strength. But if you treat the Manga and Anime as two completely separate entities, it's not hard to figure out where he would sit roughly in the grand scheme of things. Olibu vs. Paikuhan and weighted Paikuhan vs. base Goku were relatively identical fights, and although Goku did seem to be the strongest of the three I don't see any reason for why the three of them would be in a completely different league to each other.
We don't know how much was weighted paikuhan holding back against Olibu. I also think base goku was holding back against pikon (only a bit). I see that your point is valid, they are not in 3 different leagues, but I think base goku is a league above Olibu.
I would never have the patience to do my own power level list (it would be pretty similar to Kaboom and DanielSSJ's lists anyway), but here are my totally made up/borrowed numbers for where I think the relevant characters would sit in relation to each other (in units of millions, to avoid flooding the post with excessive zeroes) :

Goku: 56.
-Mastered Super Saiyan: 2,800

Paikuhan: 54.
-Unweighted: 4,000
---Burning Shoot: 12,000

Olibu: 48.

Vegeta (Cell Games): 36.
-Super Saiyan: 1,800.

Perfect Cell: 4,500.
--Super Perfect: 7,000.
I don't want to comment on a PL list becauseit'd go O/t. However, I believe pikkon one-shotted perfect cerll, not SPC.

As far as the Anime earthlings are concerned, either you can simply ignore it (like this virile son of a bitch) or basically they just have to be really fucking strong. Someone came up with the theory that Krillin, Tenshinhan and Yamcha went into ROSAT in the anime (I think it was Randomguy96), and that kind of seems like the only logical reason for why they would be so much stronger than how they are depicted in the manga.

If we go by anime depiction of humans, they are completely different beasts than manga humans.
Krillin - put up a fight against imperfect cell
Tien- Held off semi-perfect cell
Yamcha + Tien = held their own against a cell jr for a little bit.
Krilin - Held his own against a cell jr for a little bit.
However, since it is made clear they didn't go in ROSAT in cell arc, the only explanation is that they are in a similar league of power as compared to base saiyans in anime.
Second glance of olibu - Gets fodderized by Yamcha, who is bested by Krillin, who is weaker than Base buu arc kids.
True, but in the same arc King Kai has the great idea of sending Krillin and Yamcha to fight Majin Boo if Goku and Vegeta were to fail, claiming that they were the strongest fighters in the Otherworld. He says all of this while Paikuhan (the same guy who kicked the shit out of Super Perfect Cell) was probably standing about 50 meters from where this conversation was taking place. Going be your logic, Krillin and Yamcha (and therefore base Trunks and Goten) would be far, far beyond Super Perfect Cell. Can you see why a lot of people find it easier to keep the Manga and Anime separate from each other?
[/quote]

Fusion of krillin & Yamcha (anime) will definitely be above paikuhan. And as i said earlier, I believe he 2-shotted PC, not SPC.

Now, piccolo vs Gohan

Buu arc Piccolo power level

- Piccolo at CG was in the same realm of power as a cell jr, who was slightly stronger than vegetrunks.
- Piccolo trained for 7 years after that, just like vegeta. But vegeta trained harder. So, vegeta > Piccolo in buu arc. This is clear when we see how vegeta was implied to have reached SS2.
- He was "excited" to fight in 25th TB, despite knowing vegeta will be there, and goku will be there. He is not the kind of a guy to fight someone out of their league, and knowing vegeta was participating (despite knowing goku was participating too), it is clear that vegeta reached CG Goku lvl atleast.
- The only one "out of his league" could be gohan (as a SS2) as far as he knew. And Gohan being gohan, wouldn't use SS2 against Piccolo.
- Gohan was severely weakened from cell arc. In cell arc, he was slightly stronger than goku, so he must be at a level slightly below CG goku as a SS1.
- In DBS, it was made clear that Piccolo (BoG) >>> SS Kid trunks (RoF) ~ SS kid trunks (post ROSAT) >> SS Goten (buu) who gave gohan a lot of trouble. Piccolo being the fighter he is, can beat gohan even if his power is not enough. Also, there is no indication of piccolo making any noteworthy gains between BoG & buu so.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:16 pm

1) A hypothetical Super Saiyan Vegeta (from the Trunks Saga) vs. Super Saiyan Goku (also from the Trunks Saga).

2) Majin Démigra (in the new transformation he utilizes against the heroes in the God Mission 10 animated promo) vs. Super Saiyan Pink Goku Black.

3) Super Saiyan Future Gohan (If he had survived his final battle against the cruel Androids of his future, gained a Zenkai, and trained with Super Saiyan Future Trunks for 3 years) vs. Future Android 17 and Future Android 18.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:51 pm

Steven Bloodriver wrote:1) A hypothetical Super Saiyan Vegeta (from the Trunks Saga) vs. Super Saiyan Goku (also from the Trunks Saga).

2) Majin Démigra (in the new transformation he utilizes against the heroes in the God Mission 10 animated promo) vs. Super Saiyan Pink Goku Black.

3) Super Saiyan Future Gohan (If he had survived his final battle against the cruel Androids of his future, gained a Zenkai, and trained with Super Saiyan Future Trunks for 3 years) vs. Future Android 17 and Future Android 18.
- Even if Vegeta had been a Super Saiyan during that time, I doubt he'd have been as strong as Namek arc SS Goku, much less the current one.

- A) I don't do video game characters, and B) What the hell is Super Saiyan Pink?!

- You already asked about this particular battle a little while ago, and my answer hasn't changed. Gohan and Trunks win.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:06 pm

Thanks for replying, DanielSSJ, but the form I mentioned for Goku Black is the new form he might have in the future in both the anime and video games.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:03 am

Steven Bloodriver wrote:1) A hypothetical Super Saiyan Vegeta (from the Trunks Saga) vs. Super Saiyan Goku (also from the Trunks Saga).

2) Majin Démigra (in the new transformation he utilizes against the heroes in the God Mission 10 animated promo) vs. Super Saiyan Pink Goku Black.

3) Super Saiyan Future Gohan (If he had survived his final battle against the cruel Androids of his future, gained a Zenkai, and trained with Super Saiyan Future Trunks for 3 years) vs. Future Android 17 and Future Android 18.
Goku

???????

Future androiids
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:47 am

4) Super Saiyan Goku (After having absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God) vs. Goku Black.

5) Démigra Final vs. Time Breaker Vegeta.

6) A hypothetical Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Future Gohan (from his final battle against the Androids) vs. A hypothetical Super 17 (born from the fusion of Hell Fighter 17 and Future Android 17).

7) Super Saiyan Bardock (from Episode of Bardock) vs. Fourth Form Frieza (Frieza Saga).

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:28 pm

Steven Bloodriver wrote:4) Super Saiyan Goku (After having absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God) vs. Goku Black.

5) Démigra Final vs. Time Breaker Vegeta.

6) A hypothetical Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Future Gohan (from his final battle against the Androids) vs. A hypothetical Super 17 (born from the fusion of Hell Fighter 17 and Future Android 17).

7) Super Saiyan Bardock (from Episode of Bardock) vs. Fourth Form Frieza (Frieza Saga).
From what we have seen so far, Goku

no idea

No idea but I can tell that any SSGSS is logically >>>> Super 17

Freeza will just disintegrate him like krillin
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:11 pm

Steven Bloodriver wrote:4) Super Saiyan Goku (After having absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God) vs. Goku Black.

5) Démigra Final vs. Time Breaker Vegeta.

6) A hypothetical Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Future Gohan (from his final battle against the Androids) vs. A hypothetical Super 17 (born from the fusion of Hell Fighter 17 and Future Android 17).

7) Super Saiyan Bardock (from Episode of Bardock) vs. Fourth Form Frieza (Frieza Saga).
- No clue untill we see more from Black.
- Videogame, pass.
- I'm going with SS Blue Gohan on the principle that any god level character should smash any GT character with the possible exception of SS4 Gogeta.
- Neither Bardock nor Chilled showed any evidence that they were anywhere near the level of power that Goku and Freeza were packing at the begining of there fight. Even if Bardock doubled his power from recovering from Freeza's Death Ball, he'd still be barely pushing 1 million as a Super Saiyan, and Freeza's in the hundreds of millions.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by LightBing » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:57 pm

Battle Royal of the SSJ2:
Goku(Boo Arc) vs Future Trunks(Super) vs Vegeta (Boo Arc) vs Gohan (Cell Games) - Only one may survive

Damaged SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games) vs Kibitoshin

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Anime Kitten » Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:46 pm

LightBing wrote:Battle Royal of the SSJ2:
Goku(Boo Arc) vs Future Trunks(Super) vs Vegeta (Boo Arc) vs Gohan (Cell Games) - Only one may survive
Future Trunks. He held his own against SSJ2 Goku after Whis' training.
LightBing wrote:Damaged SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games) vs Kibitoshin
Pass; I don't know much about the latter's power.

I'm certain this has been said before, but:
Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta (Shadow Dragons Arc) VS Base Vegito (Majin Saga)
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by LightBing » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:18 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:
LightBing wrote:Battle Royal of the SSJ2:
Goku(Boo Arc) vs Future Trunks(Super) vs Vegeta (Boo Arc) vs Gohan (Cell Games) - Only one may survive
Future Trunks. He held his own against SSJ2 Goku after Whis' training.
You think Trunks is that much stronger than the other Saiyans that the fight format won't have an effect? Someone could stay in the sidelines until the others tire, for example.
I really would like for people to envision the situation.
Anime Kitten wrote:Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta (Shadow Dragons Arc) VS Base Vegito (Majin Saga)
I don't know enough about GT to answer this.

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