"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[ekrolo2]

Bet they'll reveal Kefla isn't as strong as peak Kale, due to Kale having lost loads of stamina when fusing, and Gohan uses that to his advantage.

Either that or Kefla does something really stupid that burns through her stamina quickly and Gohan takes the individual girls out that way.

[JazzMazz]

Bet they'll reveal Kefla isn't as strong as peak Kale, due to Kale having lost loads of stamina when fusing, and Gohan uses that to his advantage.

Either that or Kefla does something really stupid that burns through her stamina quickly and Gohan takes the individual girls out that way.

Or Gohan gets wrecked after an extended battle and Jiren takes her out in one shot.

[ekrolo2]

Bet they'll reveal Kefla isn't as strong as peak Kale, due to Kale having lost loads of stamina when fusing, and Gohan uses that to his advantage.

Either that or Kefla does something really stupid that burns through her stamina quickly and Gohan takes the individual girls out that way.

Or Gohan gets wrecked after an extended battle and Jiren takes her out in one shot.

Nah, because we gotta ignore the burning question of why and how Jiren doesn't just one shot everyone

[JazzMazz]

Either that or Kefla does something really stupid that burns through her stamina quickly and Gohan takes the individual girls out that way.

Or Gohan gets wrecked after an extended battle and Jiren takes her out in one shot.

Nah, because we gotta ignore the burning question of why and how Jiren doesn't just one shot everyone

I can answer that one for you.
His doesn't really care to.
He didn't even desire to help his own team mates when they were being annihilated.

[ekrolo2]

Or Gohan gets wrecked after an extended battle and Jiren takes her out in one shot.

Nah, because we gotta ignore the burning question of why and how Jiren doesn't just one shot everyone

I can answer that one for you.
His doesn't really care to.
He didn't even desire to help his own team mates when they were being annihilated.

Nah, it still doesn't make much sense. This is a dude who cast aside all else for the sake of pure power and wants something beyond it through the Super DBs yet the way he's portrayed in the anime makes him this bizarre combo of not giving a shit but also giving so much of a shit that he's made himself an emotionless husk. I don't even know why anime Jiren is part of the Pride Troopers period TBH.

The manga version is arguably more problematic since Jiren didn't even want to participate in the tournament and said he'd leave it if U10 came under attack while he was gone. Manga Jiren has even less reason to fuck around with these worthless peons than anime Jiren.

[JazzMazz]

Nah, because we gotta ignore the burning question of why and how Jiren doesn't just one shot everyone

I can answer that one for you.
His doesn't really care to.
He didn't even desire to help his own team mates when they were being annihilated.

Nah, it still doesn't make much sense. This is a dude who cast aside all else for the sake of pure power and wants something beyond it through the Super DBs yet the way he's portrayed in the anime makes him this bizarre combo of not giving a shit but also giving so much of a shit that he's made himself an emotionless husk. I don't even know why anime Jiren is part of the Pride Troopers period TBH.

The manga version is arguably more problematic since Jiren didn't even want to participate in the tournament and said he'd leave it if U10 came under attack while he was gone. Manga Jiren has even less reason to fuck around with these worthless peons than anime Jiren.

I don't think its that contradictory in the anime, considering there is a progression in the conflict that leads to that.
Him not wanting to fight could simply being him wanting to save stamina and observe the fighting styles of the other warriors(not to mention in the anime there was at least a dozen or so "tough" opponents from other universes).

Jiren's only real association with the pride troopers is that they are force that represent justice, which for Jiren, means strength. Thats the main link. Cipher made a good post about what Jiren means when he says what lies beyond strength in an aptly named thread.

Its not terribly well explored and elaborated upon, but at the same time, its not terribly convoluted either.

Wonder where they'll be going with manga Jiren.

[Aizamasu]

Nah, because we gotta ignore the burning question of why and how Jiren doesn't just one shot everyone

I can answer that one for you.
His doesn't really care to.
He didn't even desire to help his own team mates when they were being annihilated.

Nah, it still doesn't make much sense. This is a dude who cast aside all else for the sake of pure power and wants something beyond it through the Super DBs yet the way he's portrayed in the anime makes him this bizarre combo of not giving a shit but also giving so much of a shit that he's made himself an emotionless husk. I don't even know why anime Jiren is part of the Pride Troopers period TBH.

The manga version is arguably more problematic since Jiren didn't even want to participate in the tournament and said he'd leave it if U10 came under attack while he was gone. Manga Jiren has even less reason to fuck around with these worthless peons than anime Jiren.

Manga Jiren doesn't want to be directly responsible for the destruction of other universes so he doesn't want to eliminated anyone if they don't try to eliminate him.

[ekrolo2]

Manga Jiren doesn't want to be directly responsible for the destruction of other universes so he doesn't want to eliminated anyone if they don't try to eliminate him.

Is that actually said in the story or is that just headcanon? Also, Jiren can wish everyone back from the dead when he wins, the manga version doesn't seem like an asshole to just let them all stay erased.

I don't think its that contradictory in the anime, considering there is a progression in the conflict that leads to that.
Him not wanting to fight could simply being him wanting to save stamina and observe the fighting styles of the other warriors(not to mention in the anime there was at least a dozen or so "tough" opponents from other universes).

Jiren's only real association with the pride troopers is that they are force that represent justice, which for Jiren, means strength. Thats the main link. Cipher made a good post about what Jiren means when he says what lies beyond strength in an aptly named thread.

Its not terribly well explored and elaborated upon, but at the same time, its not terribly convoluted either.

Wonder where they'll be going with manga Jiren.

Ugh, the stamina thing, it really doesn't work on multiple accounts as Jiren is so ridiculously stronger than literally everyone else Goku has to get a power surpassing the Gods of Destruction just so Jiren doesn't kill him a thousand times over. You know episode 100 where he blows Kale up and knocks her out of Berserker at a point she was stronger than Blue Goku, why doesn't he do this with everyone since it takes no effort on his part to defeat someone of that level? Then there's instances where he punches BASE GOKU over and over again and STILL doesn't just blow him out of the stadium!

Cipher's post also doesn't really work for anime Jiren to me since I never get the impression he has any kind of sense of justice. Much less that he associates power itself as a form of justice, nor do I feel he's kind anything approaching a desire to prevent tragedies that have happened to other people. Even after Goku earns his legitimate respect, Jiren STILL won't use the wish of the Super DBs to revive everyone who's been killed by Zeno in the tournament. Now, this might be Jiren's selfish desire manifesting as a pigheaded adherence to itself but it doesn't really work if you're trying to explore the idea of him having some altruism and it doesn't really help explain why he bothers with the Pride Troopers at all.

[Lord Beerus]

Manga Jiren doesn't want to be directly responsible for the destruction of other universes so he doesn't want to eliminated anyone if they don't try to eliminate him.

Is that actually said in the story or is that just headcanon? Also, Jiren can wish everyone back from the dead when he wins, the manga version doesn't seem like an asshole to just let them all stay erased. .

Jiren does state in the manga he doesn't want other universes to be destroyed if it means having to protect U11:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
As far as why Jiren doesn't oneshot everyone in like under a minute... it's plot convenience. Dragon Ball runs on this trope hard. It's the same reason guys like Freeza, Cell and Majin Boo don't end the plot in five seconds, even though very clearly have the power to do so.

[ekrolo2]

Manga Jiren doesn't want to be directly responsible for the destruction of other universes so he doesn't want to eliminated anyone if they don't try to eliminate him.

Is that actually said in the story or is that just headcanon? Also, Jiren can wish everyone back from the dead when he wins, the manga version doesn't seem like an asshole to just let them all stay erased. .

Jiren does state in the manga he doesn't want other universe destroyed if it means having to protect U11:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
As far as why Jiren doesn't oneshot everyone in like under a minute... it's plot connivence. Dragon Ball runs on this trope hard. It's the same reason guys like Freeza, Cell and Majin Boo don't end the plot in five seconds, even though very clearly have the power to do so.

At least with Cell, Freeza and Boo I can get the whole arrogance or recklessness thing. Jiren, the way he's characterized in the anime, strikes me as a no-bullshiting around type person and then he randomly goes from one shotting people to bashing on Base Goku for no good reason.

[Cetra]

As far as why Jiren doesn't oneshot everyone in like under a minute... it's plot convenience. Dragon Ball runs on this trope hard. It's the same reason guys like Freeza, Cell and Majin Boo don't end the plot in five seconds, even though very clearly have the power to do so.

I say that all the time as well as the obvious arrogance, the cliche characteristic of an anime-villain, but apparently fans are immune to this as it really just comes down to that , and have an explanation for that everytime.

[Doctor.]

He didn't even desire to help his own team mates when they were being annihilated.

He did that in the beginning of the tournament. It just feels like Toyotaro did a complete 180 with him.

[Lord Beerus]

Is that actually said in the story or is that just headcanon? Also, Jiren can wish everyone back from the dead when he wins, the manga version doesn't seem like an asshole to just let them all stay erased. .

Jiren does state in the manga he doesn't want other universe destroyed if it means having to protect U11:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
As far as why Jiren doesn't oneshot everyone in like under a minute... it's plot connivence. Dragon Ball runs on this trope hard. It's the same reason guys like Freeza, Cell and Majin Boo don't end the plot in five seconds, even though very clearly have the power to do so.

At least with Cell, Freeza and Boo I can get the whole arrogance or recklessness thing. Jiren, the way he's characterized in the anime, strikes me as a no-bullshiting around type person and then he randomly goes from one shotting people to bashing on Base Goku for no good reason.

To be fair to Jiren, he straight away gave off this aura of guy who only really gets involved, or, hell, puts in any kind of effort into something, when he feels it's worth his time.

And to Jiren's credit, when he's knows a fight is over, he tells his opponent(s) just stay down and give up. He did with Vegeta (twice!). And with Goku, it was nothing more than pure luck that prevented him from being eliminated by Jiren.

Also, Jiren can be EXTREMELY arrogant. There's a reason he says "It's over" so many times. He's that fucking in himself of ending a fight with one attack.

[ekrolo2]

To be fair to Jiren, he straight away gave off this aura of guy who only really gets involved, or, hell, puts in any kind of effort into something, when he feels it's worth his time.

And to Jiren's credit, when he's knows a fight is over, he tells his opponent(s) just stay down and give up. He did with Vegeta (twice!). And with Goku, it was nothing more than pure luck that prevented him from being eliminated by Jiren.

Also, Jiren can be EXTREMELY arrogant. There's a reason he says "It's over" so many times. He's that fucking in himself of ending a fight with one attack.

Which I still don't get, Jiren is characterized randomly as either a no-nonsense stoic bad ass who gets things done then randomly becomes an arrogant fool or someone who pointlessly holds back. At least manga Jiren has the caveat of not purposefully wanting to get universes killed by eliminating people, anime Jiren really shouldn't give a fuck and doesn't on many occassions.

[BlueBasilisk]

Which I still don't get, Jiren is characterized randomly as either a no-nonsense stoic bad ass who gets things done then randomly becomes an arrogant fool or someone who pointlessly holds back. At least manga Jiren has the caveat of not purposefully wanting to get universes killed by eliminating people, anime Jiren really shouldn't give a fuck and doesn't on many occassions.

I believe Jiren said in 111 or thereabouts that he'd taken care of all the fighters who required his power so Toppo and Dyspo can handle the rest. I think it's a case of him not seeing the other fighters as being worth his attention or his power.

[ekrolo2]

Which I still don't get, Jiren is characterized randomly as either a no-nonsense stoic bad ass who gets things done then randomly becomes an arrogant fool or someone who pointlessly holds back. At least manga Jiren has the caveat of not purposefully wanting to get universes killed by eliminating people, anime Jiren really shouldn't give a fuck and doesn't on many occassions.

I believe Jiren said in 111 or thereabouts that he'd taken care of all the fighters who required his power so Toppo and Dyspo can handle the rest. I think it's a case of him not seeing the other fighters as being worth his attention or his power.

Which fine, I guess, until he starts pointlessly holding back against people for no good reason other than "the story would be over if Jiren was consistent!". There's a part where bashes BASE GOKU over again for minutes on end instead of blasting him out of the arena like he does to Kale. It makes every time he achieves "Max Power!" laughable since he just pointlessly holds back when other instances have him act effecient.

[Lord Beerus]

Which I still don't get, Jiren is characterized randomly as either a no-nonsense stoic bad ass who gets things done then randomly becomes an arrogant fool or someone who pointlessly holds back. At least manga Jiren has the caveat of not purposefully wanting to get universes killed by eliminating people, anime Jiren really shouldn't give a fuck and doesn't on many occassions.

I believe Jiren said in 111 or thereabouts that he'd taken care of all the fighters who required his power so Toppo and Dyspo can handle the rest. I think it's a case of him not seeing the other fighters as being worth his attention or his power.

Which fine, I guess, until he starts pointlessly holding back against people for no good reason other than "the story would be over if Jiren was consistent!". There's a part where bashes BASE GOKU over again for minutes on end instead of blasting him out of the arena like he does to Kale. It makes every time he achieves "Max Power!" laughable since he just pointlessly holds back when other instances have him act effecient.

I compare Jiren beating around Base Goku instead of one-shotting him to Kid Boo beating around Base Vegeta instead of one-shotting him... it just happens for dramatic effect.

[Bergamo]

I believe Jiren said in 111 or thereabouts that he'd taken care of all the fighters who required his power so Toppo and Dyspo can handle the rest. I think it's a case of him not seeing the other fighters as being worth his attention or his power.

Which fine, I guess, until he starts pointlessly holding back against people for no good reason other than "the story would be over if Jiren was consistent!". There's a part where bashes BASE GOKU over again for minutes on end instead of blasting him out of the arena like he does to Kale. It makes every time he achieves "Max Power!" laughable since he just pointlessly holds back when other instances have him act effecient.

I compare Jiren beating around Base Goku instead of one-shotting him to Kid Boo beating around Base Vegeta instead of one-shotting him... it just happens for dramatic effect.

It's not very dramatic after the 10th episode in a row of Jiren standing still and blocking(with loopframe animation mind you).

[ekrolo2]

I believe Jiren said in 111 or thereabouts that he'd taken care of all the fighters who required his power so Toppo and Dyspo can handle the rest. I think it's a case of him not seeing the other fighters as being worth his attention or his power.

Which fine, I guess, until he starts pointlessly holding back against people for no good reason other than "the story would be over if Jiren was consistent!". There's a part where bashes BASE GOKU over again for minutes on end instead of blasting him out of the arena like he does to Kale. It makes every time he achieves "Max Power!" laughable since he just pointlessly holds back when other instances have him act effecient.

I compare Jiren beating around Base Goku instead of one-shotting him to Kid Boo beating around Base Vegeta instead of one-shotting him... it just happens for dramatic effect.

Kid Boo's a deranged little creep who likes to hurt people, Jiren isn't characterized like that unless you egg him on like Freeza does. There's no good reason he's not one-shoting Goku in anything less than UI, much less Base form.

[1345521]

To be fair to Jiren, he straight away gave off this aura of guy who only really gets involved, or, hell, puts in any kind of effort into something, when he feels it's worth his time.

And to Jiren's credit, when he's knows a fight is over, he tells his opponent(s) just stay down and give up. He did with Vegeta (twice!). And with Goku, it was nothing more than pure luck that prevented him from being eliminated by Jiren.

Also, Jiren can be EXTREMELY arrogant. There's a reason he says "It's over" so many times. He's that fucking in himself of ending a fight with one attack.

Which I still don't get, Jiren is characterized randomly as either a no-nonsense stoic bad ass who gets things done then randomly becomes an arrogant fool or someone who pointlessly holds back. At least manga Jiren has the caveat of not purposefully wanting to get universes killed by eliminating people, anime Jiren really shouldn't give a fuck and doesn't on many occassions.

You've been speaking a lot of facts about anime Jiren. His character is pretty garbage and his actions in the tournament either don't make sense or just highly contribed plot convience for the antagonist. Being arrogant dosent mean you always have to be negligent and sloppy. Toei wrote Jirens character like garbage. Agree on that one.

Now Manga Jiren, what toyotaro is doing here makes look. Look at what kale just did in this 38, and we can assume kale is at least on the level of toppo, mssj blue goku and vegeta right... Kale relased basically a lot lf her Ki which was able to eliminate so many people. Which leads me to believe that Jiren, toppo, goku or vegeta could have easily powered up and done a hulk smash eliminating 40+ people in the first 10 seconds. But instead, toyotaro kind wrote the heavy hitters to kind of be extremly holding back.
Look at goku, dude has just stayed in his base or ssj forms kinda looking at people fighting or trying to get involved (frost and kale) only for the situation to move someplace else. The only real serious fight goku engaged in was to test out Jirens power with hit. Goku is being smart, he understands that the only guy who really really is a threat to universe 7 coming out alive is Jiren which is why he's been kinda like aloof this entire tournment. He analyzing and trying to figure out a way to best Jiren. Waisting energy on fodder fighters is a waist of time.
Vegeta - vegeta at first started to hold back and fight some fodders but he got bored of it after a few minutes he got bored and just went to pummel toppo.
Jiren - I think Jiren getting involved in the fray early was just to help his teamates eleiminate dudes. Remember Jiren is GoD tier, maybe even stronger then berrus and quietela, fighting against people who some could get slapped by andorid 18...heck their maybe fighters who are weaker then a rusty and untrained Kuririn. he's got to hold BACK massively so he can't just be ruthless or he might kill.
Plus Jiren is an legitimate "hero" of universe 11, he has compassion and is litteraly to universe 11 like an superman where there is no one like superman in his universe (I mean if you wanted to power scale equivalent, belmod is like Shazam, toppo is aquaman and dyspo is like a really really weak version of flash). He's so powerful it's like he's an Mary stu. No one in universe are even close to his might, jirens probably working a lot on his mental and intellectual strengths to fight these villians since he dosent kill.
With that said, I get he's trying to fight for his universe but how'd you think jiren feel if even the Strongest guys in the tournment (goku and Hit) were like barley a warm-up for him and everyone else were LEAGUES below them. And oh yeah, if you beat these guys they die. It's like you're at level 10,000
The strongest guys you have to play against are level 1,000
The average level is like 50
Plus your teamates are all pretty formidable. One of them being on the 1,000 tier levels, the other being far above the averge 50 level ability while the other teamates that are around that 50 level have such great teamwork they can take on opponents far above their individual abillties
You see all of this, plus as I said if you best the oppenent they are not only dead but ERASED. Don't you think Jiren would probably just hold back massively and allow his team to get the job done and he'll only like assist them? Dosent mean he has to sit in an corner with his arm crossed like an pompous jerk, but just hold back a lot and allow his team to do the dirty work so that blood (I guess "souls" since they just perish) isn't on his hands. He protects people as a duty, he's not ruthless. It wouldn't even be in his character for the manga. And the reason why he didn't help dyspo and kahsersal immediately is that he was surprised they got pushed back. He just saw some crazy level 750 chick solo like 4 universes quickly and his team of level 50-ish pride troopers used teamwork and rekt her. I'm sure he thought dyspo and kasheral could take her hence why he told goku it was UNNECESSARY before they got kicked to him.

The manga Jiren actions make sense, and the anime version Jirens does make sorta sense as well but just not as executed well. Both feel as they are way above of competition (which they are), and thus they are going to win this tournment hence why they don't try. One does it because ego, the other does because of compassion.