"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Noah]

I think the most disappointing thing I have take away from this revelation is that ultimately Goku Black isn't truly his own character...

I think we can all agree with that, unfortunately

[IGhostUlt]

Current Yamamuro Designs>>>Current Toriyama Designs

[Freeza9000]

Now that things have calmed and I've taken the time to mull over the spoilers I have read, I've come to a relative conclusion on what my current state of mind is:

I think the most disappointing thing I have take away from this revelation is that ultimately Goku Black isn't truly his own character but instead seems to be just seems to be, at best, the further projections of another character, and at worst, just a clone. And while this does another layer to Zamasu's character to a degree, it also creates creates quite a bit of confusion. I mean, for all intents and purpose, there are at least three Zamasu's for three different timelines and have been doing there own kinds of shenanigans. This whole scenario sound very similar to what happened in the The Flash with Eobard Thawne travelling back in time and stealing Harrison Wells' body and assuming his identity. While I'm sure there is more to the story, I gotta be honest, I'm not really like the direction that they are going with this. It just seem like more time travel shenanigans are going to be involved and I really wish that Dragon Ball would move away from that plot device for good because it's always made the plot more convoluted than they need to be. For what's it worth I'm very curious to see how EP 61 pans out because that episode has many of questions to answer.

I wouldn't say that Goku Black is a complete clone of Zamasu with another body. While their goals may be the same, in Episode 59 of Super, Black possess that fighting spirit that encompasses the character of the real Goku. He does not want to achieve the same immortality Zamasu has, but rather wants to further boost his fighting powers like a true Saiyan would. Zamasu just does not have that spirit as he rather attain immortality instead of doing what Black is doing.

[Beerus-sama]

Late to the party but I'm happy it came out as I thought. (Not that much that I found this out hours before the thing though)
Now for theories, I think future Zamasu (the one from Trunks timeline) is Black. Present Zamasu is the inmortal that didn't die because of it. That explains why Black is polite with Goku and why Zamasu told Black he wants to kill Goku since he is the one obsessed and furious with him.

[TheMikado]

I think the most disappointing thing I have take away from this revelation is that ultimately Goku Black isn't truly his own character...

I think we can all agree with that, unfortunately

I think I'm really disappointed because it means we only get one real villain/enemy this arc so far. I mean just in Super alone we've only gotten a few new characters and a some of the ones in the Champa arc were existing character clones. There's not even a lot of video game material to work with.

[Xeztin]

I think the most disappointing thing I have take away from this revelation is that ultimately Goku Black isn't truly his own character...

I think we can all agree with that, unfortunately

I think Black is likely to betray Zamasu and do his own thing, even though he is another Zamasu.

[ArchedThunder]

I think the most disappointing thing I have take away from this revelation is that ultimately Goku Black isn't truly his own character...

I think we can all agree with that, unfortunately

I think I'm really disappointed because it means we only get one real villain/enemy this arc so far. I mean just in Super alone we've only gotten a few new characters and a some of the ones in the Champa arc were existing character clones. There's not even a lot of video game material to work with.

Despite Black being a Zamasu I'd still consider him a completely different character.

[Hellspawn28]

If Zamasu was a female kai this would more or less be the Xicor saga. Anyone else notice any parallels between the sagas?

I seen people compare Goku Black to Dan Danny from Danny Phantom. I do think Goku Black has some similarities with Xicor. Both have a evil Kaioshin on their side and have a evil Saiyan comrade. I doubt Toyotaro created the idea to Toriyama since his AF is based on other old AF fan fictions.

[TheMikado]

If Zamasu was a female kai this would more or less be the Xicor saga. Anyone else notice any parallels between the sagas?

I seen people compare Goku Black to Dan Danny from Danny Phantom. I do think Goku Black has some similarities with Xicor. Both have a evil Kaioshin on their side and have a evil Saiyan comrade. I doubt Toyotaro created the idea to Toriyama since his AF is based on other old AF fan fictions.

The core elements definitely sound like AF which makes me wonder.

[worrior_v1]

Actually, something just occurred to me - if Zamasu needed to travel a year into the future to make his wish, then presumably the Goku he switched bodies with was likewise a version of present Goku existing one year in the future from Super's current timeframe. But that would beg the question of whether Goku is now predestined to have his body stolen from him in a year... which I suppose can be solved with more time travelling shenanigans after Black and Zamasu are defeated.

Hell, it might even pave the way for Future Trunks joining a DBS version of the Time Patrol.

In all honesty, I think your explanation seems to be the most logical. People tend to forget that Zamazu travelled 1 year into the future.

[Cipher]

It just seem like more time travel shenanigans are going to be involved and I really wish that Dragon Ball would move away from that plot device for good because it's always made the plot more convoluted than they need to be.

For another perspective, I am super-duper down for time travel mysteries, and generally find them really fun. If anything, most stories to engage in them don't take the possibilities far enough.

For all my misgivings with Super, its use of time travel is not one of them, and by and large the mystery of our two (or three?) Zamasus has been one of the more engaging parts of the arc.

[Black_Liger]

just read that spoiler and...

I'm gone one day and now [spoiler]Zamasu[/spoiler]is Fucking Xehanort I love it!.

I said the same thing. I don't like how this is turning out.

I think it's fucking Awesome, Zamasu while not the strongest being is not only a multiversal threat but also is a threat to the timelines themselves.

[Kanassa]

I think the most disappointing thing I have take away from this revelation is that ultimately Goku Black isn't truly his own character...

I think we can all agree with that, unfortunately

Not really, Black is still his own character in the same way F!Trunks is a seperate character from Kid Trunks. In essence they are the same, but they have diverged enough to be their own.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I think the most disappointing thing I have take away from this revelation is that ultimately Goku Black isn't truly his own character...

I think we can all agree with that, unfortunately

Not really, Black is still his own character in the same way F!Trunks is a seperate character from Kid Trunks. In essence they are the same, but they have diverged enough to be their own.

Exactly was just about use that analogy. There is a reason why he doesn't refer to himself as Zamasu and it looks like Black is the one who initiated contact with Future Zamasu first.

[Kanassa]

I think we can all agree with that, unfortunately

Not really, Black is still his own character in the same way F!Trunks is a seperate character from Kid Trunks. In essence they are the same, but they have diverged enough to be their own.

Exactly was just about use that analogy. There is a reason why he doesn't refer to himself as Zamasu and it looks like Black is the one who initiated contact with Future Zamasu first.

I mena, it's more obvious that he isn't just a clone by the fact that people weren't calling him a clone until now.

[HeroR]

I mena, it's more obvious that he isn't just a clone by the fact that people weren't calling him a clone until now.

We saw a major different them last episode. Future Zamasu wanted Black to wish for immorality like him. Black said no because he just wants to get stronger and immorality would make him rusty, which is a very Goku/Saiyan mindset. Future Zamasu also hates Goku's guts, while Black admires him, which makes what he did to Goku utterly creepy. Especially his, 'rejoice Son Goku, thanks to me, you have reached the height of beauty'.

[Ki Breaker]

I can't believe in something like this, so Goku Black is just another Zamasu? After almost 4 months of fan theories, we find out that is just the most obvious one? Damn it!

I really thought when Goku said in 60 NEP: "Huh? Black is not just a fake me?" that Black indeed was a separated character, oh man

Anyway, how the f*** this even works? Black is Zamasu from another timeline, that is? So they're fighting two Zamasus? Dafuq

Yeah, I think Black is present Zamasu.

But... How?

I can think of 100s of ways the story could progress from this point and in the end all would be wrong and it would be something so much more simpler yet elegant..

Tell us

What? 100's of ways..
Don't think it's possible to write it all down..
But I will think of a few on the spot now

One direction it could take was Goku could have come back in zamasu's body when they would be in very deep trouble, and it would be the immortal zamasu fighting a mortal zamsu goku.. Some epic showdowns between everyone teaming up on black..
( debunked right now by black killing goku zamasu )

Another it could have taken is letting trunks goku and vegeta take care of
Future threat.. Now that goku and vegeta were out berrus decided to sleep and at this very time our zamsu decided to act and voila we could have gotten a two way threat where goku and vegeta can't Handel both..
And the z fighters step in as zamsu still isn't that strong as future counterpart but strong enough to give z fighters a challenge when goku and vegeta are not around..
( debunked a long time ago by berrus killing zamsu )


Bulma could die right now in future and vegeta rages because of it.. Real rage seeing bulma being turned to dust by black.. Goku is down trunks is busy gawking and crying because mai has a scratch ( I have no idea why he keeps making that crying face all the time in front of her.. Be a man brother.. You are in a war )
Now rageta vs black will happen goku is busy ( with Zamasu? Dying? )

Black will not die.. He will stop his violence because immortal zamasu is dead and this zamasu is now pretty much all about getting stronger ..

Black could also stop because Zeno interferes saying "you have son goku's body and you are a kaio , participate in the tournament from your own universe.. Or you could all just get destroyed right here and now "


I can go on and on.. But when it's pretty much not something which will happen I usually don't bother

[MajinMan]

I think the most disappointing thing I have take away from this revelation is that ultimately Goku Black isn't truly his own character but instead seems to be just seems to be, at best, the further projections of another character, and at worst, just a clone.

While it is true that he isn't actually his own character, he still seems different compared to Zamasu. He seems more power hungry, he does not care for immortality, and just feels overall more evil. We might see some double crossing going on between the two Zamasus.

[SuperSayanJim]

Why do I have the horrible feeling that Beerus is going to bite the bullet before this arc ends?

[Freeza9000]

Imagine your favorite villain as the main protagonist of the show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LKT_IcyT-s