"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Bergamo]

Do you have Toriyama’s outline? We don’t know whether he wrote it or not, but I think he did considering it’s a new important form we are talking about, and I seriously doubt he had no hand about how Goku achieves the form.
What I was suggesting (and I think it was pretty clear if you actually read my post) is that Toyotaro may skip the Omen part and have Goku achieve the mastered form after the Genkidama, which means that Toei, with Toriyama’s approval, took the liberty of building up the form by having Goku achieve an incomplete version (Omen) first. That was very smart of Toei, or whoever decided to have Omen, and it improved the story tremendously, yet people here act like Toyotaro is some sort of writing God with Toei’s writers being mediocre... talk about bias. It’s even more ridiculous that some posters here haven’t even bothered to watch the entire anime yet they critic its ToP rendition. Absurd.
I also don’t see where they copied Namek arc in UI’s debut... I don’t remember Goku being hit by his own Genkidama back in Namek.

I just can’t wait to see you all praising Toyotaro when he will write Goku attaining UI exactly like in the anime. But I expect the manga force to be like “Oh Toyotaro handled it much better, wow!”. Or maybe Toyotaro will do his own thing, worse than the anime, and you will all praise him as you always do. The guy doesn’t even follow Toriyama that much considering he decided to skip on the tingle back thing for transforming into a Super Saiyan.

So if Toyotaro does the spirit bomb and we like it then we're biased, and if Toyotaro doesn't do the spirit bomb and we like it then we're biased.

Also, the anime made Merged Zamas much stronger than he was originally intended to be and removed the portara time limit from him yet Toyotaro is bad for not including a line about a tingly back. Ok.

Yes, you are biased towards the manga if you praise the same plot point about Goku attaining UI after surviving the explosion of his own Genkidama, which you criticised the anime for. And you will be biased if Goku casually pulls UI out of his ass and starts dodging Jiren just because he saw Beerus doing it once and you end up praising it.
I will be the first to give Toyotaro praise if he does something as creative as the anime, but I won’t shit on the anime while doing that.

Dude, I never said that the spirit bomb from the anime is bad. If you're going to accuse people of random things and make reductive blanket statements, then you need to go. Discuss the manga peacefully and don't try to start conflicts.

[LightBing]

Bad execution is bad regardless if Mr.Toriyama did it, Toyotarõ or Toei. Ditto for bad ideas.
You can like the same idea in one version and hate it in another, if the version you like executed it differently.

Things aren't black and white. This weird tribalism doesn't do anyone any favors. Let's please worry ourselves about content.

Anyway..., Goku has an idea about Ultra Instinct and the guidance from Whis, Jiren is there to push him to the limit. That's the minimum the manga gave us. That's enough since Goku's a broken prodigy; now I would like something more to give Ultra Instinct greater impact. The Genki Dama stuff, I don't like it and I can't imagine many scenario's where I would like it.

That's still a bit in the future, I'm more curious about the end of the Kefla conflict and what's going to happen with Muten Roshi.

[emperior]

So if Toyotaro does the spirit bomb and we like it then we're biased, and if Toyotaro doesn't do the spirit bomb and we like it then we're biased.

Also, the anime made Merged Zamas much stronger than he was originally intended to be and removed the portara time limit from him yet Toyotaro is bad for not including a line about a tingly back. Ok.

Yes, you are biased towards the manga if you praise the same plot point about Goku attaining UI after surviving the explosion of his own Genkidama, which you criticised the anime for. And you will be biased if Goku casually pulls UI out of his ass and starts dodging Jiren just because he saw Beerus doing it once and you end up praising it.
I will be the first to give Toyotaro praise if he does something as creative as the anime, but I won’t shit on the anime while doing that.

Dude, I never said that the spirit bomb from the anime is bad. If you're going to accuse people of random things and make reductive blanket statements, then you need to go. Discuss the manga peacefully and don't try to start conflicts.

I wasn’t directly talking about you. It was more of an hypotethic you... yeah it’s confusing, but basically I mean that if the manga events of how Goku achieves UI are the same as in the anime and the same people who talked bad about it come back here to defend Toyotaro, then that will be inexcusable.
Too many times I have seen people here only praising the manga. Some people are misunderstanding what I am saying and that’s probably my fault for the words I use, but I just find it ridiculous that some posters judge the manga to ALWAYS be superior to the anime. That certainly isn’t true, and the opposite isn’t true either! I never hid that I prefer the anime but if you go and lurk in my posts, keyword Super Manga, you will see plenty of posts where I am the first to admit when I found the manga to surpass the anime in certain aspects.

I have always said that I would prefer Toyotaro working more closely on the story with Toei as it would be beneficial for both and it could also result in a more consistent Dragon Ball Super across the two products. I am also glad that Toyotaro suggested Vegetto to appear in the FT arc, and one of the reasons why I would be happy with him working more with Toei is the fact that he is seemingly so well informed about everything Dragon Ball that he could help not creating plotholes etcetera.

I also never said that Toei too follows Toriyama’s outlines as accurately as possible, but some users here act like Toyotaro does because he said so once, even though he didn’t with BoG and now he skipped the tingle back (he could always explain it later though). Toei took the freedom of not having Black turn into a regular Super Saiyan because they probably deemed it unnecessary for the story they wanted to tell, while it worked on Toyotaro’s story and I am glad he used it because that was cool. Yet some people act like the anime doesn’t want to tell a story and only focuses on selling merchandise, and that’s not true. I think the guy who follows all the DB related merchandising on here also confirmed how little Rage, Blue Evolution etc... toys they actually made. Yeah, some anime decisions probably sparked from a lack of creativity, not from a intention to sell toys.

[Jesus-is Lord]

I doubt what toei did was in Akiras notes since it's obvious pandering to the Freeza saga - IMO, that's way to lazy for Akira to put in notes as mandated. I'm not sure if that one-hour special was approved by toriyama, though. I always thought toriyama focuses more on the manga and then the movies he does with toei. Though he obviously does like character design creations and personaility via a joint effort by toei and toyotaro. But apart from that, I'm not so sure he's really involved with where the anime connects the dot other then if they execute his plot points well. In the manga, we got more information in that Akira checks over toyotaro story board and is kind of his un-offcial supervisor. He does do the same with toei too, I guess. Idk... shrugs... . The db manga is the offcial continuation of Akiras manga while toei is the continuation of kai - plus according to toyotaro - it seems he's more faithful in sticking to akiras plot-outline then toei and it's never been stated akira checks through ALL of toei's story boarding. I just really don't know. Maybe omen was approved by toriyama, maybe it happened without his approval. Not enough information.

Only the Kaioken and the fact Goku decided to fire off a Genkidama were a callback to Freeza, and a short one too. And Toriyama is notoriously lazy so it could have very well been his idea to play the battle similar to how it played on Namek.
Nothing happened without Toriyama's approval, that's for sure. He was involved with the anime production, he checked the scripts and the storyboards and gave suggestions. In fact the tingle back method to achieve Super Saiyan was his idea, yet Toyotaro didn't use it.
The anime Super is the continuation of the original manga, not of Kai. Sure, it's also a continuation of Kai in that Kai tried to be a cut version of Z to follow the manga, although they weren't able to cut all the filler.
It was never stated that Toyotaro's manga is the official continuation. In fact all evidence points towards the anime being it, and it's surely the main one.

Again, all of that is IF spirit bomb is in the manga which I really doubt. And even then, not having the addtion of OMEN would not make me agree with you that UI was handled better in the anime. The manga, to me, has far better build-up to UI then the anime does. With chapter 27, 28 and a little of 35 being the big catalyst. In the anime, goku pulled omen literally out of his behind. There was no narrative build-up nor in-universe build-up. It just randomly happened and people then digged out a little excerpt from whis like 80+ episodes ago . Don't get me wrong, Omen is a visually great form and better then UI - but not having it in the manga probaly won't effect me to much since toyotaro is already doing a far better job of hyping building the form up. Now, if you're talking about just build-up to MUI in general... now it's more competive. Since the manga has to compete with the build-up omen brought. Though IMO I found the concept of UI omen so poorly explained and executed that when goku achieved MUI i didn't really care much because the writing of the show was so...fan-service heavy and lacked any substance to me. So unless the manga bombs this, the manga version of events will porbably be better then the anime to me.

Toyotaro is a good writer to me, while modern toei seems focused more on the cash then the story.

Well, these "posters" who haven't watched all episodes from the ToP make good arguments because I myself have watched ALL 131 episodes and I don't deviate that much from their issues with the anime. To me, the anime of super is the worst offcial continuity of dragon ball and it's not even close. But that's just my objective opinion.
It has a few cool moments, and some REALLY good ost but other then that....it's a Bad show according to my standards of what dragon ball should be.

It mirrors frieza arc with this:
Goku fights Jiren - Goku fights frieza at 50%
Goku gets stomped by jiren - Goku gets stomped by Freeza
goku makes a spirt bomb - goku makes a spirt bomb
goku fails - goku fails
Goku unlocks a new form - Goku un locks a new form
It's not an copy, but the special itself was heavy nostalgia call back to that plot point of the Freeza arc.
You could argue that goku facing the pride troopers before was like goku facing the ginyu force too, but that's stretching it.

Well, I doubt you'll see that happen since A. toyotaro has already builded up the form far better then toei has, and B. There's a small chance UI will come in the exact same fashion it did in the anime. Surviving a spirit bomb. lol. So, hopefully, we will be cheering toyotaro for executing well by his own interprtations. I really hope akira helps him (or has helped him) in crafting this chapter.

P.S how does surviving a spirt bomb blast make you learn how to dodge instinctly? sighs...toei.

Not every transformation needs to be built up. And Toyotaro's build up is nothing extaordinary, he just repeated what was said in RoF, which he skipped, and showed Beerus using an incomplete version of UI. That's all. And it's quite in our faces. I prefer the anime not going the obvious way, with UI happening on sheer luck on Goku's part. I loved that by surviving the Genkidama Goku was able to break his inner barriers, his mental and physical limits, and achieved a state not even Gods can easily achieve. The way Ultra Instinct was presented was just perfectly written in my opinion. It can make sense for Goku to randomly break his limits by surviving a giant explosion in a Tournament with very high stakes, and it makes sense that those limits he broke were holding down his true potential, which is to have his body move and act on its own.
I really don't see any other way for Goku to achieve such a godly state in a short time other than what the anime team has done. He was also in a semi-comatose state with the Genkidama fueling his tired and energy-less body.
The casualty of Goku achieving Ultra Instinct is something I like. In my book, that was a creative way to introduce a new power-up and to justify Goku achieving it just now and never before.

I could give a rebuttal that would ruthlessly tear down these points to expose the flaws in the execution which you so valiently argue for.
But...
I won't.
Though I may disagree with a lot of what you said, It's still such a noble site to see someone defend this (IMO) mediocrity and disgrace of a tv show with as mch conviction and passion as you seem to espouse.
Most people I see can't defend super for much longer before they start running away with their tail between their legs.

You stand strong for what you Beleive in, which to me shows you genuinely like super tv version. I don't get that impression with many who defend this show since they are usually gone before the discussion even got started.
Do you, my dude. You have my respects!
Though, if you insist in me making a rebuttal... I won't hold back.

[Marlowe89]

People should stop counting chickens before they are hatched. I'm a manga supporter but I wouldn't say half the things that some people are saying here. Toyotaro may show UI the same way as in the anime, so don't assume he won't.

So I'm not entirely sure if this is (partially) referring to my post: I'm the one who brought up the Genki Dama, after all. If it is, you're taking what I said out of context.

I was exclusively talking about Ultra Instinct's build up in both versions of the story. The reason I mentioned that technique is because the anime's Universe Survival arc doesn't touch on the subject until Goku transforms; my point about the Genki Dama being handled poorly was a separate, tangentially-related thought.

Obviously, I have no idea if it's actually going to show up in Toyotaro's version. If it does, and if the manga's execution is the same as the anime's, I wouldn't think twice about rebuking it. Those who have bothered to read all my previous "reviews" - which are really just quick thoughts - on chapters after they're released already know that I don't shy away from criticizing the manga if there's something about it I don't like.

I don't expect to see it, and frankly, I think the manga has a better track record with consistency than to show something like that, but it's possible.

[shadowfox87]

I don't expect to see it, and frankly, I think the manga has a better track record with consistency than to show something like that, but it's possible.

I don't remember if it was you. There are too many posts above. All I'm saying is that before we criticize the anime and say that the manga handled it better, we should wait for the manga chapter to actually come out to see how it handled it. I actually had no issue with UI shown in the anime.

[emperior]

I doubt what toei did was in Akiras notes since it's obvious pandering to the Freeza saga - IMO, that's way to lazy for Akira to put in notes as mandated. I'm not sure if that one-hour special was approved by toriyama, though. I always thought toriyama focuses more on the manga and then the movies he does with toei. Though he obviously does like character design creations and personaility via a joint effort by toei and toyotaro. But apart from that, I'm not so sure he's really involved with where the anime connects the dot other then if they execute his plot points well. In the manga, we got more information in that Akira checks over toyotaro story board and is kind of his un-offcial supervisor. He does do the same with toei too, I guess. Idk... shrugs... . The db manga is the offcial continuation of Akiras manga while toei is the continuation of kai - plus according to toyotaro - it seems he's more faithful in sticking to akiras plot-outline then toei and it's never been stated akira checks through ALL of toei's story boarding. I just really don't know. Maybe omen was approved by toriyama, maybe it happened without his approval. Not enough information.

Only the Kaioken and the fact Goku decided to fire off a Genkidama were a callback to Freeza, and a short one too. And Toriyama is notoriously lazy so it could have very well been his idea to play the battle similar to how it played on Namek.
Nothing happened without Toriyama's approval, that's for sure. He was involved with the anime production, he checked the scripts and the storyboards and gave suggestions. In fact the tingle back method to achieve Super Saiyan was his idea, yet Toyotaro didn't use it.
The anime Super is the continuation of the original manga, not of Kai. Sure, it's also a continuation of Kai in that Kai tried to be a cut version of Z to follow the manga, although they weren't able to cut all the filler.
It was never stated that Toyotaro's manga is the official continuation. In fact all evidence points towards the anime being it, and it's surely the main one.

Again, all of that is IF spirit bomb is in the manga which I really doubt. And even then, not having the addtion of OMEN would not make me agree with you that UI was handled better in the anime. The manga, to me, has far better build-up to UI then the anime does. With chapter 27, 28 and a little of 35 being the big catalyst. In the anime, goku pulled omen literally out of his behind. There was no narrative build-up nor in-universe build-up. It just randomly happened and people then digged out a little excerpt from whis like 80+ episodes ago . Don't get me wrong, Omen is a visually great form and better then UI - but not having it in the manga probaly won't effect me to much since toyotaro is already doing a far better job of hyping building the form up. Now, if you're talking about just build-up to MUI in general... now it's more competive. Since the manga has to compete with the build-up omen brought. Though IMO I found the concept of UI omen so poorly explained and executed that when goku achieved MUI i didn't really care much because the writing of the show was so...fan-service heavy and lacked any substance to me. So unless the manga bombs this, the manga version of events will porbably be better then the anime to me.

Toyotaro is a good writer to me, while modern toei seems focused more on the cash then the story.

Well, these "posters" who haven't watched all episodes from the ToP make good arguments because I myself have watched ALL 131 episodes and I don't deviate that much from their issues with the anime. To me, the anime of super is the worst offcial continuity of dragon ball and it's not even close. But that's just my objective opinion.
It has a few cool moments, and some REALLY good ost but other then that....it's a Bad show according to my standards of what dragon ball should be.

It mirrors frieza arc with this:
Goku fights Jiren - Goku fights frieza at 50%
Goku gets stomped by jiren - Goku gets stomped by Freeza
goku makes a spirt bomb - goku makes a spirt bomb
goku fails - goku fails
Goku unlocks a new form - Goku un locks a new form
It's not an copy, but the special itself was heavy nostalgia call back to that plot point of the Freeza arc.
You could argue that goku facing the pride troopers before was like goku facing the ginyu force too, but that's stretching it.

Well, I doubt you'll see that happen since A. toyotaro has already builded up the form far better then toei has, and B. There's a small chance UI will come in the exact same fashion it did in the anime. Surviving a spirit bomb. lol. So, hopefully, we will be cheering toyotaro for executing well by his own interprtations. I really hope akira helps him (or has helped him) in crafting this chapter.

P.S how does surviving a spirt bomb blast make you learn how to dodge instinctly? sighs...toei.

Not every transformation needs to be built up. And Toyotaro's build up is nothing extaordinary, he just repeated what was said in RoF, which he skipped, and showed Beerus using an incomplete version of UI. That's all. And it's quite in our faces. I prefer the anime not going the obvious way, with UI happening on sheer luck on Goku's part. I loved that by surviving the Genkidama Goku was able to break his inner barriers, his mental and physical limits, and achieved a state not even Gods can easily achieve. The way Ultra Instinct was presented was just perfectly written in my opinion. It can make sense for Goku to randomly break his limits by surviving a giant explosion in a Tournament with very high stakes, and it makes sense that those limits he broke were holding down his true potential, which is to have his body move and act on its own.
I really don't see any other way for Goku to achieve such a godly state in a short time other than what the anime team has done. He was also in a semi-comatose state with the Genkidama fueling his tired and energy-less body.
The casualty of Goku achieving Ultra Instinct is something I like. In my book, that was a creative way to introduce a new power-up and to justify Goku achieving it just now and never before.

I could give a rebuttal that would ruthlessly tear down these points to expose the flaws in the execution which you so valiently argue for.
But...
I won't.
Though I may disagree with a lot of what you said, It's still such a noble site to see someone defend this (IMO) mediocrity and disgrace of a tv show with as mch conviction and passion as you seem to espouse.
Most people I see can't defend super for much longer before they start running away with their tail between their legs.

You stand strong for what you Beleive in, which to me shows you genuinely like super tv version. I don't get that impression with many who defend this show since they are usually gone before the discussion even got started.
Do you, my dude. You have my respects!
Though, if you insist in me making a rebuttal... I won't hold back.

Yes, I genuinely like the animated version. There are of course a few flaws but in the end the good outweighs the bad. My only big complaint has always been first and foremost the show’s art style, the colors and the overly bright auras.
This doesn’t mean I find the manga to be bad, but I just prefer the way the anime staff handled things.
I actually find the stories to be enjoyable and I always looked forward to each new episode. I have expressed plenty of times my disappointment over some aspects of the anime or the manga. Unfortunately, I find the recent manga chapters very lacking compared to the previous ones, and I also didn’t like how Freeza was re-introduced, probably because I was spoiled by the phenomal episodes 94-95, same for Android 17. The latest chapter of the manga I truly enjoyed was the first chapter of the ToP, but unfortunately things went a little downhill afterwards.

If you can tear my points down, go on. I am interested in reading what your opinion is. I like to read different opinions, I’m not here to read people circlejerking, as that is exactly what I despise.

[Miracles]

The "inspiration" and "aspiration" of Goku is an "empty" higher power level tho.

Well, not really. When it comes to writing, it's not the destination that counts, but the journey. What matters is the how. Goku seeing something and training to achieve it, going through the growth of character (re: not growth of power level) that comes along with that is substantially different than 11th hour powerups.

Hopefully that works as an answer since I'm not entirely sure what you're insinuating in your post.

I was talking the end result of Goku's lust for power. You are on the journey part.
Which was indeed scratched upon when Kakarot opted out to fight Jiren alongside Hit and stated he needs to overcome on his own.

[TKA]

No, you're biased against the anime because you criticise everything about it (even what you didn't watch) and praise everything Toyotarou does.

Bad argument.

Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps I stopped watching the tournament of power because it was bad and thoroughly unengaging and uninteresting? Literally dozens of episodes in the same setting there the plot barely progresses each episode, with unimpressive animation for the vast majority of it and inconsistencies abound? Maybe I don't want to waste fucking hours of my life watching something I dislike because its badness soured me on it? Maybe watching 104 episodes of Super and seeing what it was about told me that there was no sense in continuing to watch?

And guess what? I didn't go to Super episode threads to complain to people who enjoy it. I just washed my hands of it. It should be fucking noted that I've never said anything about how the anime handled ultra instinct within the context of the tournament since I stopped watching long before that. I only commented on the spirit bomb being gigantic not making sense, and how that triggering Goku's transformation is also less interesting than actual character development.

I just can't fathom your reasoning. It makes no sense.

That, by default, shows your bias. It's even worse when you claim you don't like the anime yet you can't shut up about it in the manga thread. Everyone can talk about the manga without mentioning the anime and vice-versa. Except you, apparently. It shows how well the manga stands on its own, I guess.

I don't like this attacking the poster bullshit, but let's look at things I've said recently:

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30467&start=24700#p1526454
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30467&start=24700#p1526473
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30467&start=24700#p1526618

Hm. Not seeing any mention of the anime there. It's... almost like... I only mention the anime when people bring it up:

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30467&start=24680#p1526250
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30467&start=24660#p1526202
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30467&start=24560#p1523473
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30467&start=24700#p1526604

If this is the best you can come up with,I'm pretty much done with talking to you. Every time any discussion comes about, you retreat to this passé trite of "You don't like the anime! You're a meanie!" Like, brah, we're all adults here. Even if I did do that, I'm not attacking you and I fully explain why I'm making a comparison between both mediums. I don't just go "anime sux; manga better". I fully and clearly articulate why the anime sucks and the manga is better. If you disagree with me, defend the anime and don't whine that I don't like it. I've had to explain this to you before, where you outright lied to try to make some frivolous point.

I didn't told you to watch the whole anime, I told you to watch the Tournament of Power arc, which is what you need to talk about it and Migatte no Gokui in the first place.

Yeah, don't. We'll see what happens in the next chapters.

What happens in the chapters has no bearing on that. I'm saying your ad hominem bullshit is exactly that: bullshit. Bullshit not worth replying to.

You really need to know what you're talking about and learn that opinions aren't facts

Of course opinions aren't facts. So why the heck do my opinions get your goat so much? Why do my opinions itch so bad? Is it because I back my opinions up with well-reasoned points to bolster their credibility? I mean, that's one of the basic tenets of discussion and debate, no?

You're not interested in knowing the facts (or not presenting opinions as them) so there's no conversation possible here.

You already posted your facts, guy. You posted that Goku transformed after absorbing his spirit bomb (which shouldn't have even been as strong as the one he used in the Saiyan arc against vegeta, given the arena has so little people). I assume good faith and that you wouldn't post something that's an outright lie (despite evidence to the contrary), so I replied to what you posted. I'm neither going to watch the anime, nor read synopses of how Goku's transformation happens, since I want to be surprised by the manga.

If you feel I'm criticizing an aspect of the anime in a way that is uninformed, then blame it on how you presented these facts to me.

Continue bashing the anime, then, if that's what you feel is needed to make the manga relevant.

I say this very statement all of the time. I don't get why people can't discuss the manga without the need for dissing the anime.

Same reason people don't talk about the Star Wars Prequels without talking about the originals. Same reason people don't talk about The Hobbit trilogy without talking about the originals. Same reason people don't talk about any Spiderman or Superman movie without going back to Raimi or Donner.

Both iterations of Super are tackling similar subject material. There's absolutely nothing wrong with comparing the two.

Furthermore, I've seen people give passes to the manga for the very things they hated the anime for.

I have yet to see a critique about the manga I care about or don't find disingenuous. The only ones I think hold up are those related to Toyotaro's drawing and paneling ability. I don't care about those things, much like many don't care to talk about Toei's obvious bad (even compared to typical shonen series from other production companies) animation.

[Skar]

I do hope the manga offers a better method for Goku unlocking UI than getting hit in the face with a Spirit Bomb. Imagine if Freeza or Kid Buu dodged the Spirit Bomb back in DBZ and it landed on Goku. Would he have unlocked a premature UI back then? Don't get me wrong I thought the transformation and battle were pretty awesome in the anime but I would've liked if they at least tried to explain how it worked.

[Marlowe89]

All I'm saying is that before we criticize the anime and say that the manga handled it better, we should wait for the manga chapter to actually come out to see how it handled it.

Right, but we're specifically talking about the arc's build up to the form, which is fair game. That's already been (and continues to be) conveyed in the manga right now.

Even if the Genki Dama is manifested and used as an impetus, it doesn't actually change anything a lot of us already said. Goku has a working sense of character progression towards obtaining Ultra Instinct that simply isn't shown in the anime prior to him actually triggering it.

[prince212]

That's still a bit in the future, I'm more curious about the end of the Kefla conflict and what's going to happen with Muten Roshi.

yeap let’s go step by step ... but who knows , may be kefla-gohan fight is over in 3 pages and then goku will put a Genki dama for the end of the chapter hahahahah. Vegito fusion lasted half a chapter in f.t arc ....Totally unpredictable, but I have hopes on Roshi making a big move and be saved from death . Less than 10 days and we will see ...

[PFM18]

Yeah I know I tend to play a big role in this, and I apologize for it, but we really need to stop turning the manga discussion thread into a "manga vs anime" thread. It isn't fair to people that just want to discuss the manga irrespective of the anime.

but I would've liked if they at least tried to explain how it worked.

They explained exactly how it worked. He achieved the form when he was forced into a situation where his body was forced to break through it's previous limitations.

[Skar]

They explained exactly how it worked. He achieved the form when he was forced into a situation where his body was forced to break through it's previous limitations.

I was hoping for a little more to it than that since it sounds like how almost every other SSJ form was achieved. UI seemed like it was supposed to be different and not a Saiyan-exclusive form. It did raise his power so I'm wondering if it's just another transformation but also happens to come with the UI ability that Beerus had to train to master or if it's something else.

[Miracles]

Just for the sake of truth, I wanted to clarify an issue some of us had earlier on a subject...Where some were saying the canon timeline of the DB wall paper wasn't Japanese official...

https://twitter.com/miichi1st/status/10 ... 6613716994

"Alexis and I just translated, edited and fact checked all of the text from the Japanese version. It was a lot of work but cool to see it all up there! The manga history of Dragon Ball!!"

[Marlowe89]

Just for the sake of truth I wanted to clarify an issue some of us had earlier on a subject...Where some were saying the canon of the DB wall paper timeline wasn't Japanese official...

https://twitter.com/miichi1st/status/10 ... 6613716994

"Alexis and I just translated, edited and fact checked all of the text from the Japanese version. It was a lot of work but cool to see it all up there! The manga history of Dragon Ball!!"

Neat.

Still not sure what the word "canon" was translated from, but people should never have doubted the graphic's basic content and purpose. This event was devised and managed by the companies in charge of the whole franchise; doubt they would have given a Viz editor the authority to just make shit up.

[Skar]

Just for the sake of truth, I wanted to clarify an issue some of us had earlier on a subject...Where some were saying the canon timeline of the DB wall paper wasn't Japanese official...

https://twitter.com/miichi1st/status/10 ... 6613716994

"Alexis and I just translated, edited and fact checked all of the text from the Japanese version. It was a lot of work but cool to see it all up there! The manga history of Dragon Ball!!"

That's interesting! Both versions cover Toriyama's outline but the fact that the manga only has one writer and way less extra content added to it could mean it's closer to those outlines. As a manga artist himself, he might feel more comfortable supervising a manga than an anime especially since the manga only comes out once a month. I think it's unlikely he would be able to overlook every single detail in every anime episode before its release.

[prince212]

Just for the sake of truth, I wanted to clarify an issue some of us had earlier on a subject...Where some were saying the canon timeline of the DB wall paper wasn't Japanese official...

https://twitter.com/miichi1st/status/10 ... 6613716994

"Alexis and I just translated, edited and fact checked all of the text from the Japanese version. It was a lot of work but cool to see it all up there! The manga history of Dragon Ball!!"

That's interesting! Both versions cover Toriyama's outline but the fact that the manga only has one writer and way less extra content added to it could mean it's closer to those outlines. As a manga artist himself, he might feel more comfortable supervising a manga than an anime especially since the manga only comes out once a month. I think it's unlikely he would be able to overlook every single detail in every anime episode before its release.

Strongly Agree . On top of that all the gaps in between the main outline are easier to give it the ok or correct it .
Toriyama just need 30 min per month to check the raw draws from toyo . That’s one of the reasons why .. manga should come first . But it’s good as well to have two different continuities.
If I’m saying this it’s because I think Toriyama is not investing too much of his time to his product, it’s just my opinion or guess , and I’m ok with that , slavery days ended for him around 1995 When he draw the last chapter of dragon ball .

[emperior]

Just for the sake of truth, I wanted to clarify an issue some of us had earlier on a subject...Where some were saying the canon timeline of the DB wall paper wasn't Japanese official...

https://twitter.com/miichi1st/status/10 ... 6613716994

"Alexis and I just translated, edited and fact checked all of the text from the Japanese version. It was a lot of work but cool to see it all up there! The manga history of Dragon Ball!!"

I still doubt the Japanese text included the word canonical or something similar. It’s not like those translators aren’t notorious for having messed translations up either.
That said, calling the manga canon is not wrong. Super, generally speaking, is canonical to the original manga. But to me it’s quite clear that the main product is the anime. The movie will finally clear things up, so I don’t want to discuss this yet another time.

[Skar]

I still doubt the Japanese text included the word canonical or something similar. It’s not like those translators aren’t notorious for having messed translations up either.
That said, calling the manga canon is not wrong. Super, generally speaking, is canonical to the original manga. But to me it’s quite clear that the main product is the anime. The movie will finally clear things up, so I don’t want to discuss this yet another time.

To be honest, who cares which version is more canon? It's just interesting to know which one might be closer to Toriyama's outline but that should have no bearing on your enjoyment of the anime. Kai is "more canon" than DBZ but that doesn't mean fans who preferred the original anime should stop enjoying it.