"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Neon Z]

Here's a question. What difference does it make if something is Toei's idea or Toriyama's as long as it's done well and explained. This forum in particular has a nasty habit of Everything Toei = bad, Everything Toriyama = good. Kind of like how most enjoyed the Kaioken coming back, but the moment it appears to be a Toei, it. becomes bad.

The issue is that Toei has shown a trend of sidelining their own ideas. It's the reason most people aren't expecting Kaioken to be relevant again now, but if it had been a Toriyama idea we'd be expecting it to be used again in this arc.

[Boo Machine]

[spoiler]I'M GETTING SO SICK OF THE RETREATING TO THE PAST!

Officially not my favorite arc anymore.[/spoiler]

I really FAIL to understand how this is pissing people off. Each time they retreated served a purpose.

And they've only done it once before. Well twice for trunks. I agree that the mafuba is something they should have considered the first time they went back and it's stupid that they didn't , but at least this time isn't just to run away. And Trunks is staying behind possibly with vegeta so, the action doesn't exactly stop. At least I hope not. Filling in what would have been comedy moments with moments of trunks and vegeta fighting could do wonders.

[Xeztin]

I think it's all up in the air, SSR and the Mafuba is something I thought would never happen because of confusion. Nor did I think there would be three Zamasu's in total if you count Black

[ryou766]

So? It's boring, they come this second time without a proper plan, then Goku realizes that Mafuba could be useful then he go back to the past again? They could stay in the future, escape to another planet, learn other stuff, explore the future universe, anything better than this

What do you mean "so?" Would you rather a purpose than none at all? That's horrible story-telling. Why would they escape from Earth IN the future? Black and Zamasu would NOT allow them to escape. The time machine is the only way. It's common sense.

[Cetra]

So? It's boring, they come this second time without a proper plan, then Goku realizes that Mafuba could be useful then he go back to the past again? They could stay in the future, escape to another planet, learn other stuff, explore the future universe, anything better than this

What do you mean "so?" Would you rather a purpose than none at all? That's horrible story-telling. Why would they escape from Earth IN the future? Black and Zamasu would NOT allow them to escape. The time machine is the only way. It's common sense.

It is also pretty dumb from Black to not learn from the same mistake and let them flee once more. He already was smart enough to destroy a Time Machine once.

[Sandubadear]

So? It's boring, they come this second time without a proper plan, then Goku realizes that Mafuba could be useful then he go back to the past again? They could stay in the future, escape to another planet, learn other stuff, explore the future universe, anything better than this

What do you mean "so?" Would you rather a purpose than none at all? That's horrible story-telling. Why would they escape from Earth IN the future? Black and Zamasu would NOT allow them to escape. The time machine is the only way. It's common sense.

Yep, even if Goku teleported to the future's Kaio's planet like some suggested a few days ago, Black can also teleport. Time Machine is the only way out.

[Anime Kitten]

I really FAIL to understand how this is pissing people off. Each time they retreated served a purpose.

Because it's boring. We have to sit through sobby Mai scenes and tedious dinners. It's repetitive, that's all.

Excuse me if my attitude is inappropriate.

[omaro34]

Great news about the Evil Containment Wave being brought back. Keep in mind Roshi isn't the only one that could do it. Tenshinhan could do it, and Piccolo should be able too because Kami did it against Piccolo in the 23rd Tenkaichi tournament, and now they are fused together.

[ryou766]

So? It's boring, they come this second time without a proper plan, then Goku realizes that Mafuba could be useful then he go back to the past again? They could stay in the future, escape to another planet, learn other stuff, explore the future universe, anything better than this

What do you mean "so?" Would you rather a purpose than none at all? That's horrible story-telling. Why would they escape from Earth IN the future? Black and Zamasu would NOT allow them to escape. The time machine is the only way. It's common sense.

It is also pretty dumb from Black to not learn from the same mistake and let them flee once more. He already was smart enough to destroy a Time Machine once.

Trunks and co. had the time machine kept away during his fight with Black and Zamasu the first time, and Mai brought it out far away from their location when they couldn't sense their ki. Trunks is hiding the time machine again now and is fending off both Black and Zamasu while Goku escapes.

Because it's boring. We have to sit through sobby Mai scenes and tedious dinners. It's repetitive, that's all.

Like I said, would you rather them leave just because they're afraid of their opponents power or actually have a purpose?

[Esfír Dedragón]

Instead of going back to the past... why can't Goku just find Future Master Roshi and ask him how to do the Evil Containment Wave? Hmm?

Did he die? Last time we saw him was in a submarine and considered fighting the Androids but was talked out of by Future Oolong and Future Puar.

[ryou766]

Instead of going back to the past... why can't Goku just find Future Master Roshi and ask him how to do the Evil Containment Wave? Hmm?

Did he die? Last time we saw him was in a submarine and considerd fighting the Androids but was talked out of by Future Oolong and Future Puar.

It was only shown in the Trunks special that Roshi lived, but he wasn't shown in the manga portion of the story so we can assume he died. Hell, ESPECIALLY since Yajoribe fought them himself.

[Cetra]

Trunks and co. had the time machine kept away during his fight with Black and Zamasu the first time, and Mai brought it out far away from their location when they couldn't sense their ki. Trunks is hiding the time machine again now and is fending off both Black and Zamasu while Goku escapes.

You don't need to explain the anime to me and it does not prevent them from destroying the Time Machine. They are able to perform stuff that is called "AOE attack" in gaming language.

[ryou766]

Trunks and co. had the time machine kept away during his fight with Black and Zamasu the first time, and Mai brought it out far away from their location when they couldn't sense their ki. Trunks is hiding the time machine again now and is fending off both Black and Zamasu while Goku escapes.

You don't need to explain the anime to me and it does not prevent them from destroying the Time Machine. They are able to perform stuff that is called "AOE attack" in gaming language.

What are you talking about? I'm giving a reason as to why Black hasn't/won't destroy the time machine again. It's hidden, away from Black's sight; it won't be destroyed again.

[Anime Kitten]

Like I said, would you rather them leave just because they're afraid of their opponents power or actually have a purpose?

I'd rather them be completely outmatched and leave (#57) and then if they need to flee again, don't return to the past. Just leave the battlefield. Black and Zamasu would probably not come after them.

[Cetra]

What are you talking about? I'm giving a reason as to why Black hasn't/won't destroy the time machine again. It's hidden, away from Black's sight; it won't be destroyed again.

What am I talking about? You clearly did not understand what I wrote. I have given you a reason why your reason of "not destroying the time machine" would logically not work.

[HeroR]

Here's a question. What difference does it make if something is Toei's idea or Toriyama's as long as it's done well and explained. This forum in particular has a nasty habit of Everything Toei = bad, Everything Toriyama = good. Kind of like how most enjoyed the Kaioken coming back, but the moment it appears to be a Toei, it. becomes bad.

The issue is that Toei has shown a trend of sidelining their own ideas. It's the reason most people aren't expecting Kaioken to be relevant again now, but if it had been a Toriyama idea we'd be expecting it to be used again in this arc.

Last I checked the series or arc isn't over yet, so neither you or I can't say the Kaioken will never be used again. And the Kaioken would be of no used against an immortal anyway, so why would Goku even attempt to use it knowing it will cripple him and had a high failure rate since he hadn't mastered it.

[ryou766]

Like I said, would you rather them leave just because they're afraid of their opponents power or actually have a purpose?

I'd rather them be completely outmatched and leave (#57) and then if they need to flee again, don't return to the past. Just leave the battlefield. Black and Zamasu would probably not come after them.

How is that any better than what we're getting now? And it's most definite that Black and Zamasu would track them down as long as they remained in the future; of course, unless their ki was hidden and mixed with the rebellion. Black and Zamasu would search great lengths to find them, and would probably if not definitely find them in the sewers ALONG with the rebellion.

What am I talking about? You clearly did not understand what I wrote. I have given you a reason why your reason of "not destroying the time machine" would logically not work.

You said that it's dumb that Black hasn't destroyed the time machine considering he's done it before, and I gave examples as to why he hasn't done so thus far. I know what I'm talking about.

[Lujin_16]

i'm out here to much complaining see you again after episode 61

[Cetra]

You said that it's dumb that Black hasn't destroyed the time machine considering he's done it before, and I gave examples as to why he hasn't done so thus far. I know what I'm talking about.

Obviously you don't since you ignored what I wrote twice. Your reason is "Black does not know where it is therefore it is impossible to destroy it for him" but for characters with attacks of widespread scale "not knowing and seeing" does not matter and I won't explain that for a fourth time because I am pretty sure you also know that Dragon Ball characters can do that.

[ryou766]

Obviously you don't since you ignored what i wrote twice. Your reason is "Black does not know where it is therefore it is impossible to destroy it for him" but for characters with attacks of widespread scale "not knowing and seeing" does not matter and I won't explain that for a fourth time because I am pretty sure you also know that Dragon Ball characters can do that.

As I mentioned before, the first time Black couldn't destroy the time machine in time before they managed to escape was ALSO because they had faint ki, so it was difficult for them to detect where their precise location was. In EP61, Trunks stays behind to fend off Black and Zamasu before Goku escapes; which we can ASSUME is the reason why Black didn't/couldn't destroy it again; he was fighting Trunks.