"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Kenneth La Torre]

This is the epitome of a no-limits fallacy. I just have a bad feeling that you are going to have to eat these words if Jiren ends up hitting UI Goku in the manga OR Broly ends up tagging UI Goku in the movie and manga version. Remember this conversation, because I surely will.

Itll die down once new opponents without UI start to crap on UI goku.

I'm hip. We all know it's bound to happen. The Broly movie is likely to already do it.lol

Wouldnt surprise me honestly, not with all the hype broly is getting.

[Noah]

If Jiren can hit a mastered Ultra Instinct Goku with no explanation, that's a Toei problem for not adhering to Whis' description.

I don't see how that's Toei problem if they followed the same outline Toyotaro is following now. Any deviations are authorized by Toriyama, that meaning that Ultra Instinct is not infalible.

Just because there’s a complaint in the community doesn’t mean it’s justified. There was a complaint Trunks wasn’t chosen or Paikuhan... Jiren had all the power in the world so he didn’t need to GO ALL OUT against some weakling (in his eyes). He did eliminate him though unlike Jiren in the animated version not eliminating Kale. Jiren eliminated all those that opposed him: Hit and Kame-Sennin. He tried eliminating Gokou but he keeps getting saved

My point is not that Jiren should have stomped everyone from the start and yes that they could convince the audience why he did not. Meditating in the middle of tournament was god damn stupid, I give kudos to the manga for not reaching this level yet. Also remember the last episodes? Jiren was fighting with both Vegeta and Goku with barely any energy left for them and instead of taking advantage of it he just stalled until the Ultra Instinct appeared again.

We all know that's called "Plot armor" which is not an issue, cause fans knows there has to have a final battle with both forces at full power, but at least put some effort on it, don't make the antagonist look like a blatant idiot until he finally shows his full strenght.

[LightBing]

With the pace of the last two chapters I don't see Vegeta vs Toppo and #17 vs Dsypo getting much attention. They'll probably have the same fate as Gohan vs Kefla.

So next chapter will probably quickly finish those battles and show Jiren's backstory looking at the last line of this chapter(wonder how that will differ from the anime). Then we should get the ramp up of the conflict. After that the final battle and closing the arc in the following chapter.
Then it should be Broly movie preview chapter, looking at the rhythm of the last two chapters seems pretty obvious Toyotarõ is doing that.

[Rakurai]

The narrative in this work. That Goku-Jiren-Roshi dynamic. Brilliant. I knew those leaked scans with zero context was premature, preemptive knee-jerk backlash from a fandom that should know better.

I love how Toyo is using Roshi to remind Goku once again how to go about improving and defeating someone with much greater power than you than just acquiring more and power power. A breath of fresh air from all the power levels and how to calculate them.

If anything, I'm more bothered by Kefla vs Gohan. Goddamn that was so underwhelming. Idc if Gohan got that strong in such a short amount of time, I wanted to see some good old panel choreography. That leg grab by Kefla was pretty sweet though.

Champas' departure and his anticipation leading up to it was pretty heartbreaking.

One of the more awesome chapters imo, hampered by Kefla vs Gohan, shit was so distasteful. Toyo seems to understand the concept of UI quite well, that it's not just all about power but channeling one's inner ki/spirit and finding something deep within yourself. It's spiritual, but so has UI been from the start. This makes more sense than Goku getting wrecked by his own Spirit bomb tbh.

[reecehoward]

The narrative in this work. That Goku-Jiren-Roshi dynamic. Brilliant. I knew those leaked scans with zero context was premature, preemptive knee-jerk backlash from a fandom that should know better.

I love how Toyo is using Roshi to remind Goku once again how to go about improving and defeating someone with much greater power than you than just acquiring more and power power. A breath of fresh air from all the power levels and how to calculate them.

If anything, I'm more bothered by Kefla vs Gohan. Goddamn that was so underwhelming. Idc if Gohan got that strong in such a short amount of time, I wanted to see some good old panel choreography. That leg grab by Kefla was pretty sweet though.

Champas' departure and his anticipation leading up to it was pretty heartbreaking.

One of the more awesome chapters imo, hampered by Kefla vs Gohan, shit was so distasteful. Toyo seems to understand the concept of UI quite well, that it's not just all about power but channeling one's inner ki/spirit and finding something deep within yourself. It's spiritual, but so has UI been from the start. This makes more sense than Goku getting wrecked by his own Spirit bomb tbh.

One of the more awesome chapters?! Are you shitting me? To each their own. Gohan vs Kefla was the least offensive thing imo, and it was lackluster in every conceivable way. I can't fathom how you and others here are fine with the regression of Goku's character. Dude has straight up been treated like a scrub this entire chapter.

[Rakurai]

One of the more awesome chapters?! Are you shitting me? To each their own. Gohan vs Kefla was the least offensive thing imo, and it was lackluster in every conceivable way. I can't fathom how you and others here are fine with the regression of Goku's character. Dude has straight up been treated like a scrub this entire chapter.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you've understood the point of Goku's character at all.

Have you not paid attention to the dialogue at all whatsoever? He's not being treated like a scrub, he's filling the student role again now that Roshi is present. Goku wants to learn, so that he can aim higher and higher. There is always room for improvement, no matter how weak your old master now is. With age comes wisdom, as Whis says.

Also, Goku was being very modest and humble of his roots, his master, his very upbringing as a child. Being so humble of one's self is very Japanese (surprise surprise as to what nationality Toyo and Tori are?).

In fact it's so surprising how much more mature Toyo Goku's is than Toei's Goku. Not just now, but always throughout. This is simply icing on the cake. This is how one does character development, not take Goku's worst traits and exemplify them just to prove a point about what Toriyama said a long time ago in regards to Goku loving to fight solely for himself.

Also, I did say one of the more awesome chapters IMO. Please grow up if you can't have others agree with your own troubled notion of what DB should only be about.

[Marlowe89]

I don't see how that's Toei problem if they followed the same outline Toyotaro is following now. Any deviations are authorized by Toriyama, that meaning that Ultra Instinct is not infalible.

Toriyama is historically and repeatedly stated not to be too involved with the direction of action scenes. Jiren landing hits on Ultra Instinct Goku is something that would likely be authorized by Toei's storyboarding and animation staff.

Even then, it's clearly a deviation from what Whis said about the technique being able to avoid any threat.

Even then, we know for a fact that it's a way of bypassing the amount of time it takes for the brain to process electrical signals; even if Ultra Instinct isn't infallible in the manga, that basic description remains intact and suffices to explain why the technique isn't affected by reaction times and conscious perception. Roshi could be as slow as a snail normally and he can still dodge Jiren with a form of UI. Case in point: Beerus getting hit during the manga's Zen Exhibition was immediately attributed to Beerus' use of the technique being unmastered.

People need to stop thinking about the numbers because it's vastly missing the point. The story plainly communicates that Ultra Instinct is less about powering up and more about the fundamentals, or in this case, movement. That was the biggest theme/message of this month's chapter. It wasn't about power levels when Goku observed Roshi and proceeded to activate Omen, and it sure as hell wasn't about power levels when Roshi demonstrated those very same principles.

Mechanically, conceptually or narratively, the point wasn't to represent another dick-measuring contest. That's not why Goku is going to fight Jiren on even terms.

[Simere]

I'm not too sure Toyotaro's rushing to be done by/for Broly. Remember when people thought he was rushing the Black arc to get the ToP and then he spent forever on the climax?

One of the more awesome chapters?! Are you shitting me? To each their own. Gohan vs Kefla was the least offensive thing imo, and it was lackluster in every conceivable way. I can't fathom how you and others here are fine with the regression of Goku's character. Dude has straight up been treated like a scrub this entire chapter.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you've understood the point of Goku's character at all.

Have you not paid attention to the dialogue at all whatsoever? He's not being treated like a scrub, he's filling the student role again now that Roshi is present. Goku wants to learn, so that he can aim higher and higher. There is always room for improvement, no matter how weak your old master now is. With age comes wisdom, as Whis says.

No one suggests that Goku has no room for improvement and nothing left to learn(he's been in the student role for years by being Whis's student), it's whether he should be learning these basics he should already know. Ignoring the basics makes you a "scrub"; Roshi even said that this chapter. And if there are new things to learn it should be from new masters, not dredging up old ones for "shine". Shouting out the Kame School when it's Whis's teachings he's employing... Roshi happens to be the only teacher who did teach him nothing but getting stronger.

[RandomGuy96]

I really didn't like the focus that Roshi got in either the manga or the anime.

[MKCSTEALTH]

This is honestly the first time I can say: this chapter was garbage. Honestly. The battle of Gohan and Kefla felt watered down. Once again Toppo vs Vegeta was pushed to the back

And Roshi...Lord Popo, what was that. I love Roshi, I love the treatment he got in the anime, I felt that was a loving sendoff to the character.

But to have him not only take the strongest current foe, dodge him effortlessly (something Hit, a character that can manipulate time could not), and actually visibly irritate Jiren....just no

Not only that, but Roshi turned into the motivation for UI...and no Spirit Bomb, no pushed to near death. He got hit a couple times, then poof. Here comes Omen.

Not a fan...I don't know how many more chapters we have, but this is going to be interesting going forward. I hope the next one is better. Anything would be honestly.

[HeroR]

You're missing the point. No ones bagging on GOku for needing advice, it's because that in order for Goku to require this specific advice, Toyo had to retroactively regress Goku's character and force him to forget all the lessons he's learned when he wouldn't be such a good fighter if he hadn't learned these lessons. It makes Goku look like an inexperienced clown who thought swelling his raw power was a good idea on it's own. It's a textbook example of doing away with traits of another character, making them look stupid for the sake of making a different character look good. Especially when it's Roshi teaching Goku things that Goku himself has already taught others.

That is the crux of the issue.

It simplifies Goku's character to being a person who focuses solely on strength to win a battle rather than taking account strategy, cunning and other tactics. It's made even worse by the fact that Goku himself lambasted the idea of focusing on nothing but power to win a fight during the Cell arc and by the fact that in Super itself Goku has won fight when focuses on other tactics beyond how strong he can get or how hard he can hit.

This chapter made Goku look like a novice in martial arts, when in reality, he's the most naturally gifted and adaptable fighter in all of Dragon Ball. Seriously, the writing Goku annoyed me so much in Chapter 39. I honestly think it borders on character assassination.

The Roshi thing was wholly unnecessary since Goku already watched Beerus using his own incomplete Ultra Instinct against foes much closer to Jiren's level. There's no reason he couldn't have had a moment of epiphany or something like that and thought back to that moment when he realized that he had zero hope of besting Jiren in a straight contest of power. He could have put those pieces together all on his own.

Back in Chapter 35, Hit wanted Goku to team up with him when he tried the Time Slip strategy, but Goku blew him off because he wanted to beat Jiren alone and break his limit. He basically admits he's banking on a new transformation to win this fight.

I honestly thought that was what Toyo was going for. Have Goku see incomplete UI, be overwhelmed by Jiren, says there is a wall he needs to get over, oh he's thinking about Beerus' UI. Nope, Goku was hoping he would asspull a transformation and actually had no higher plan.

[Bergamo]

I really liked what Toyotaro did. He had Goku just expect to get some limit breaking power when he was cornered like he always does. Goku tries to push Blue to the next level by acceleration the break down of his body, but Roshi finally gets Goku back in line.

Roshi reminds Goku of the core principles he needs to consider to achieve Ultra Instinct.

1. Remember the basics
2. Technique over power
3. Self movement

[Rakurai]

I'm not too sure Toyotaro's rushing to be done by/for Broly. Remember when people thought he was rushing the Black arc to get the ToP and then he spent forever on the climax?

One of the more awesome chapters?! Are you shitting me? To each their own. Gohan vs Kefla was the least offensive thing imo, and it was lackluster in every conceivable way. I can't fathom how you and others here are fine with the regression of Goku's character. Dude has straight up been treated like a scrub this entire chapter.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you've understood the point of Goku's character at all.

Have you not paid attention to the dialogue at all whatsoever? He's not being treated like a scrub, he's filling the student role again now that Roshi is present. Goku wants to learn, so that he can aim higher and higher. There is always room for improvement, no matter how weak your old master now is. With age comes wisdom, as Whis says.

No one suggests that Goku has no room for improvement and nothing left to learn(he's been in the student role for years by being Whis's student), it's whether he should be learning these basics he should already know. Ignoring the basics makes you a "scrub"; Roshi even said that this chapter. And if there are new things to learn it should be from new masters, not dredging up old ones for "shine". Shouting out the Kame School when it's Whis's teachings he's employing... Roshi happens to be the only teacher who did teach him nothing but getting stronger.

Goku was fixated on power. Roshi simply reminded him that not everything is about power (levels). Yes he trained Goku to become strong, undeniable, but both physically and mentally (all those weird challenges and harsh conditions like not eating). He knew what Goku was lacking well as an adult, and he made Goku remember what his other mentors have also taught him, those things at the core of UI. These are not basic, especially not Popo's and Korin's. Not sure if you ever saw memes about Popo always using UI, but I'm pretty sure Toyotaro (and perhaps Toriyama himself intentionally did this) took this to heart too.

Thematically speaking, what better way to use Roshi than to send him off leaving a contribution like no other, one that's deemed fit for a master like him? Even better when he doesn't show his perverted side in the heat of the moment or turn him into a gag, which is one of the biggest reliefs.

[JazzMazz]

I think people more than understand what UI is, it’s just that Roshi shouldn’t have even a bootleg version of UI. That’s more the problem I have.

I think Toyotaro is drawing from Kame-sen'nin's title.

That's not an in-story explanation for why Roshi was able to do things he did this chapter.
I think its also worth noting, that Dragonball is literally a series filled with characters whose official titles are that of gods, having a title doesn't mean much.

1. Roshi dodging Jiren was plausible cause Roshi demonstrated movement that Goku couldn't and Jiren was obviously laxed while attacking Roshi. Evidenced by the panel showing Jiren's eye's more focused KOing "UI Roshi."

2. Goku's character was not shot. But a development. It's true, Goku always powered up to a new form or gathered more power to beat his opponent. Roshi reminded him of the spiritual aspect of his teachings which Goku totally forgot [Besides Ki sensing]. By remembering these specific teachings he was able to tap into UI which is much better than the anime's random power struggle approach.

3. I do not like the fact that Gohan could rival Kefla. However, Kale's base was stated to pack more punch than Caulifla's SSJ and the fusion highlighted kale's power and caulifla's battle sense mix. Don't know how much of a jump the Potara would bring from that combination so it isn't safe to assume where Gohan's power is from this showing.

1. Thats the problem, Roshi instory is a less advanced martial artist than Goku and there should be no way that Roshi should be capable of showcasing movement that Goku wasn't not only capable of, but far exceeding in every respect.

2. Goku is more than aware that power isn't everything, how the hell do you think they defeated Raditz? Or Piccolo in the 23rd? even the instantenous movement Kamehameha against Cell, or even just completed Super Saiyan, or even completed Blue. Or the majority of his other fights in the series.

Goku has tried methods of merely powering up before, and in pretty much all cases they have had negative results(20 times Kaio-ken, Super Saiyan 3). Goku more than anyone understands that power isn't a good trade off for everything else, he as a fighter shouldn't need to be reminded of that fact, because he already understands that perfectly well.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a throwback to past training, but simply recalling that past training being the impetus for Goku achieving UI, with no effort or struggle, makes the transformation come out of left field, is stupidly vague, but also cheapens how easily the form is achieved.

[Bergamo]

I think people more than understand what UI is, it’s just that Roshi shouldn’t have even a bootleg version of UI. That’s more the problem I have.

I think Toyotaro is drawing from Kame-sen'nin's title.

That's not an in-story explanation for why Roshi was able to do things he did this chapter.
I think its also worth noting, that Dragonball is literally a series filled with characters whose official titles are that of gods, having a title doesn't mean much.

1. Roshi dodging Jiren was plausible cause Roshi demonstrated movement that Goku couldn't and Jiren was obviously laxed while attacking Roshi. Evidenced by the panel showing Jiren's eye's more focused KOing "UI Roshi."

2. Goku's character was not shot. But a development. It's true, Goku always powered up to a new form or gathered more power to beat his opponent. Roshi reminded him of the spiritual aspect of his teachings which Goku totally forgot [Besides Ki sensing]. By remembering these specific teachings he was able to tap into UI which is much better than the anime's random power struggle approach.

3. I do not like the fact that Gohan could rival Kefla. However, Kale's base was stated to pack more punch than Caulifla's SSJ and the fusion highlighted kale's power and caulifla's battle sense mix. Don't know how much of a jump the Potara would bring from that combination so it isn't safe to assume where Gohan's power is from this showing.

1. Thats the problem, Roshi instory is a less advanced martial artist than Goku and there should be no way that Roshi should be capable of showcasing movement that Goku wasn't not only capable of, but far exceeding in every respect.

2. Goku is more than aware that power isn't everything, how the hell do you think they defeated Raditz? Or Piccolo in the 23rd? even the instantenous movement Kamehameha against Cell, or even just completed Super Saiyan, or even completed Blue. Or the majority of his other fights in the series.

Goku has tried methods of merely powering up before, and in pretty much all cases they have had negative results(20 times Kaio-ken, Super Saiyan 3). Goku more than anyone understands that power isn't a good trade off for everything else, he as a fighter shouldn't need to be reminded of that fact, because he already understands that perfectly well.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a throwback to past training, but simply recalling that past training being the impetus for Goku achieving UI, with no effort or struggle, makes the transformation come out of left field, is stupidly vague, but also cheapens how easily the form is achieved.

Goku has clearly lost sight of technique, and Toyotaro simply acknowledges that. Goku is a great martial artist, but he relies too much on transformations. Goku must use technique to get to the next level of power rather than using a ritual(SSG) or vaguely obtaining a power up offscreen(SS3,SSB).

[Kokonoe]

I really liked what Toyotaro did. He had Goku just expect to get some limit breaking power when he was cornered like he always does. Goku tries to push Blue to the next level by acceleration the break down of his body, but Roshi finally gets Goku back in line.

Roshi reminds Goku of the core principles he needs to consider to achieve Ultra Instinct.

1. Remember the basics
2. Technique over power
3. Self movement

Agreed. The writing for Master Roshi and this entire segment was utter brilliance.

[JazzMazz]

I think Toyotaro is drawing from Kame-sen'nin's title.

That's not an in-story explanation for why Roshi was able to do things he did this chapter.
I think its also worth noting, that Dragonball is literally a series filled with characters whose official titles are that of gods, having a title doesn't mean much.

1. Roshi dodging Jiren was plausible cause Roshi demonstrated movement that Goku couldn't and Jiren was obviously laxed while attacking Roshi. Evidenced by the panel showing Jiren's eye's more focused KOing "UI Roshi."

2. Goku's character was not shot. But a development. It's true, Goku always powered up to a new form or gathered more power to beat his opponent. Roshi reminded him of the spiritual aspect of his teachings which Goku totally forgot [Besides Ki sensing]. By remembering these specific teachings he was able to tap into UI which is much better than the anime's random power struggle approach.

3. I do not like the fact that Gohan could rival Kefla. However, Kale's base was stated to pack more punch than Caulifla's SSJ and the fusion highlighted kale's power and caulifla's battle sense mix. Don't know how much of a jump the Potara would bring from that combination so it isn't safe to assume where Gohan's power is from this showing.

1. Thats the problem, Roshi instory is a less advanced martial artist than Goku and there should be no way that Roshi should be capable of showcasing movement that Goku wasn't not only capable of, but far exceeding in every respect.

2. Goku is more than aware that power isn't everything, how the hell do you think they defeated Raditz? Or Piccolo in the 23rd? even the instantenous movement Kamehameha against Cell, or even just completed Super Saiyan, or even completed Blue. Or the majority of his other fights in the series.

Goku has tried methods of merely powering up before, and in pretty much all cases they have had negative results(20 times Kaio-ken, Super Saiyan 3). Goku more than anyone understands that power isn't a good trade off for everything else, he as a fighter shouldn't need to be reminded of that fact, because he already understands that perfectly well.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a throwback to past training, but simply recalling that past training being the impetus for Goku achieving UI, with no effort or struggle, makes the transformation come out of left field, is stupidly vague, but also cheapens how easily the form is achieved.

Goku has clearly lost sight of technique, and Toyotaro simply acknowledges that. Goku is a great martial artist, but he relies too much on transformations. Goku must use technique to get to the next level of power rather than using a ritual(SSG) or vaguely obtaining a power up offscreen(SS3,SSB).

In this chapter yes, but in literally every other chapter of even this manga, Goku is completely competent and utilizes the methods his learned in intelligent manners. If he was all power like people are suggesting, he wouldn't have been able to out predict Hit's timeskip, beat Botamo using strategy, learn the destruction technique, complete and master SSB learn the destruction technique and so forth and so on. My point is, even in the manga, Goku hasn't lost sight of the importance of strategy and technique, which is what makes Goku's diminution into an inept moron who gets schooled by his retired former master who didn't even master the ability to ki sense an opponents movements and relies on his eyes all the more jarring.

EDIT: Also, self movement, or hell, even the use of less movements was never something Roshi taught Goku, or even something he mastered to Goku or even Tien and Kuririn's level.

[Bergamo]

That's not an in-story explanation for why Roshi was able to do things he did this chapter.
I think its also worth noting, that Dragonball is literally a series filled with characters whose official titles are that of gods, having a title doesn't mean much.
1. Thats the problem, Roshi instory is a less advanced martial artist than Goku and there should be no way that Roshi should be capable of showcasing movement that Goku wasn't not only capable of, but far exceeding in every respect.

2. Goku is more than aware that power isn't everything, how the hell do you think they defeated Raditz? Or Piccolo in the 23rd? even the instantenous movement Kamehameha against Cell, or even just completed Super Saiyan, or even completed Blue. Or the majority of his other fights in the series.

Goku has tried methods of merely powering up before, and in pretty much all cases they have had negative results(20 times Kaio-ken, Super Saiyan 3). Goku more than anyone understands that power isn't a good trade off for everything else, he as a fighter shouldn't need to be reminded of that fact, because he already understands that perfectly well.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a throwback to past training, but simply recalling that past training being the impetus for Goku achieving UI, with no effort or struggle, makes the transformation come out of left field, is stupidly vague, but also cheapens how easily the form is achieved.

Goku has clearly lost sight of technique, and Toyotaro simply acknowledges that. Goku is a great martial artist, but he relies too much on transformations. Goku must use technique to get to the next level of power rather than using a ritual(SSG) or vaguely obtaining a power up offscreen(SS3,SSB).

In this chapter yes, but in literally every other chapter of even this manga, Goku is completely competent and utilizes the methods his learned in intelligent manners. If he was all power like people are suggesting, he wouldn't have been able to out predict Hit's timeskip, beat Botamo using strategy, learn the destruction technique, complete and master SSB learn the destruction technique and so forth and so on. My point is, even in the manga, Goku hasn't lost sight of the importance of strategy and technique, which is what makes Goku's diminution into an inept moron who gets schooled by his retired former master who didn't even master the ability to ki sense an opponents movements and relies on his eyes all the more jarring.

EDIT: Also, self movement, or hell, even the use of less movements was never something Roshi taught Goku, or even something he mastered to Goku or even Tien and Kuririn's level.

1. Goku isn't a dummy that relies 100% on power, but he isn't exactly a technical fighter either.

2. Self movement isn't an inherently useful skill. Someone at Roshi's level would probably be better off increasing their strength, and as a result, their speed.

[HeroR]

In this chapter yes, but in literally every other chapter of even this manga, Goku is completely competent and utilizes the methods his learned in intelligent manners. If he was all power like people are suggesting, he wouldn't have been able to out predict Hit's timeskip, beat Botamo using strategy, learn the destruction technique, complete and master SSB learn the destruction technique and so forth and so on. My point is, even in the manga, Goku hasn't lost sight of the importance of strategy and technique, which is what makes Goku's diminution into an inept moron who gets schooled by his retired former master who didn't even master the ability to ki sense an opponents movements and relies on his eyes all the more jarring.

EDIT: Also, self movement, or hell, even the use of less movements was never something Roshi taught Goku, or even something he mastered to Goku or even Tien and Kuririn's level.

That and UI at least for Goku is a transformation just like Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. So the whole 'stop relying on transformations', falls really flat. It isn't like UI alone can overcome Jiren since all that will do is allow Goku to dodge until he gets tired.

[Bergamo]

In this chapter yes, but in literally every other chapter of even this manga, Goku is completely competent and utilizes the methods his learned in intelligent manners. If he was all power like people are suggesting, he wouldn't have been able to out predict Hit's timeskip, beat Botamo using strategy, learn the destruction technique, complete and master SSB learn the destruction technique and so forth and so on. My point is, even in the manga, Goku hasn't lost sight of the importance of strategy and technique, which is what makes Goku's diminution into an inept moron who gets schooled by his retired former master who didn't even master the ability to ki sense an opponents movements and relies on his eyes all the more jarring.

EDIT: Also, self movement, or hell, even the use of less movements was never something Roshi taught Goku, or even something he mastered to Goku or even Tien and Kuririn's level.

That and UI at least for Goku is a transformation just like Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. So the whole 'stop relying on transformations', falls really flat. It isn't like UI alone can overcome Jiren since all that will do is allow Goku to dodge until he gets tired.

Just because Ultra Instinct turns Goku's hair white, doesn't mean it's not a technique. Whis uses UI and he doesn't have the silver eyes, so obviously UI is not necessarily a transformation.