HeroR wrote:Lionel wrote:
Which techniques would those be? I recall him imitating a weaker mediocre version of Roshi's Kamehameha at the beginning of the series. At the 21st tournament, Goku is unable to replicate the Drunken Fist style, presumably due to a lack of indulgence with alcohol which is an integral part of grasping the unpredictable motions of such an inebriated state, so he resorts to an improvised Mad Dog stance instead. Admittedly, he does grasp the Afterimage shortly after Jackie Chun used it. I think the next incident of him "copying" a technique is with Tenshinhan's Shiyouken, though he didn't sprout tangible limbs from his back like Tenshinhan did; it was a rapidly repeating motion of the arms to give the illusion of having extra appendages which he actually acquired from King Chappa. Following this, the ability to sense Ki required years of meditative training despite having witnessed Popo use it. To put this in perspective, Vegeta learned how to sense Ki not too long after having battled with Goku and the others. He does show knowledge of the Taiyoken and Kienzan, but this is years after he first witnessed these techniques. It's not indicative of having grasped abilities any better than Tenshinhan has. Granted, I overlooked the time span in which Tenshinhan learned the Mafuba. Regarding King Kai -- we're not aware of any of the particulars concerning the training with others. Given the fact that Piccolo wasn't aware of the Spirit Bomb's existence, though, it's likely neither he or the others were intended to learn them by King Kai.
Roshi was revived usign the Earth's Dragonballs, but the same doesn't hold true for either Tenshinhan or Piccolo. They were revived both times using the Namekian Dragonballs which we know do not have a limit in the amount of times they can revive someone. As for the non-existence of the future Dragonballs, the group could always bring their version and use them in the future. Nothing is preventing them from doing so as far as we know. Goku also has in the past been willing to entrust the fate of the world to others, even when they were initially uncertain of the prospect. This occasion should be no different, especially if they're volunteering to do so.
The Micro Band has yet to be used for the same reason any other retro device or concept hasn't in spite of their potential usefulness to the present conflict. It's why Akkuman was never called upon to kill the Saiyans, Freeza or the cyborgs with his technique. And the reason why I cited Kaioshin instead of Beerus is because of his teleportation ability and the possible applications with it. Beerus can't teleport.
Goku mimic a weakened Kamehameha before he had any real training since his grandfather died years ago. Tien by the time he copied the Kamehameha was older and was more well-trained. Goku couldn't copy the Drunken Fist specifically because he never got drunk before, so he created a counter, Mad Dog
and Crazy Monkey. He actually used King Chappa Eight-Arm Technique against Tien, not the Four Witches. I would also argue that Goku began to sense ki as soon as the 22nd Tournament. He knew that Tien was more powerful than he let on, he felt Master Roshi die to King Piccolo, and he sensed where Piccolo was after drinking the Ultra Divine Water. His training with Kami was only fine tuning it, which works since he has one of the best ki sense in the series. Also, Goku never actually saw Krillin use the Kienzan. The closest would be Freeza's tracing version. He also did use the Solar Flare better than Tien at the 23rd Tournament. He kept the Solar Flare going for several minutes after using it and could turn it off at any time, instead of the quick flash. I should also point out that Piccolo was only with King Kai for a couple of days before he was revived and went to Namek, while Tien was there for a three fourths of a year.
Piccolo needed the Namekian Dragon Balls according to Goku in Super when Frieza killed him. And why would they bring their version to the future. No one has never suggested that, not even once. Plus, if they do that, they would have to return to Trunks' time in a year's time to get them and we don't even know if the Dragon Balls can be used that way. Goku is willing to entrust the future to others, true. Letting them die when he can do something isn't one of them.
The Supreme Kai isn't going to the future. He wasn't even with them when they went back to Earth.
Actually, it's implied both in the manga and the Daizenshuu that Goku may have already carried some comprehension of Ki harnessing from his days under Gohan's tutelage.
Chapter: 15, P4.3-4
Context: after Goku fires his first Kamehameha
Goku: “It…it came out…But it didn’t hold a candle to that old timer Kame-sennin’s one…”
Gyuumao: “Ma…magnificent…
Just what you’d expect of Gohan’s grandson…”
Chapter: 15, P5.1
Kame-sennin: “From the looks of it…
It seems that [Gohan] really toughened him up.”
Kamehameha
First Appearance: Chapter 14
Category: ki manipulation
People: Kame-sennin, Son Goku, Son Gohan, Yamcha, Jacky Chun, Krillin, Son Gohan (grandpa), Tenshinhan, Cell, Majin Buu (good, evil, pure)
Special Characteristics: A ki manipulation technique thought up by Kame-sennin. It is a technique that condenses ki into one point and then fires it. The technique’s force changes based on the strength of its user’s ki, and if mastered it also becomes possible to control its force.
Son Goku soon picked up this technique, perhaps because of his ki training with Son Gohan (grandpa), or perhaps due to his special characteristics as a Saiya-jin. Tenshinhan also easily copied it. From this, it can be said that it is possible to use the Kamehameha merely by being able to control one’s ki. (Daizenshuu 2, p.202/Daizenshuu 4, p.111)
There's plenty of corroborative evidence lending validity to Goku having preemptive understanding of Ki to some extent. Given the integral nature of Ki application in martial arts within the series, it makes sense for Gohan to have offer some insight into the harnessing of this concept to Goku. The respective ages and longer commitment periods to martial arts is a fair point, but Goku likely held more field experience than Tenshinhan did. By the time Goku first used the Kamehameha, he was already on a journey across the globe in search of the Dragonballs. Tenshinhan was still under the wing of the Crane Hermit as a pupil and assassin in training. Judging by his self-reflective monologue once his priorities shifted towards the actual fight, he likely had not killed anyone before -- and we know in the field experience is important for martial artists.
With respect to the other examples -- the Mad Dog and Crazy Monkey stances are the same. They're synonymous terms referring to the general methodology of the Crazy Fist/Kyoken. I'm aware of the fact Goku was relying on Chappa's technique. I cited it in my previous responce, "it was a rapidly repeating motion of the arms to give the illusion of having extra appendages
which he actually acquired from King Chappa." Competent fighters in the DB series seem to possess this intuitive sixth sense where they can discern when something isn't quite what it appears to be or if they happen to share a connection with that person like with Bulma learning something was amiss with Vegeta soon after his act of sacrifice. Granted, Goku could in fact sense King Piccolo's malevolent Ki which astounded Karin when he learned of this fact. However, it should be noted this only occurred
after Goku survived the Ultra Divine Water's poisonous effects. It took continual training under Popo for three years before he learned how to fully utilise it.
Those few days were sufficient enough to allow Piccolo to rise in strength by admitting Gohan enraged could surpass him during the Saiyan arc to impressing Nail in 6 days. It's obvious King Kai's training is worth vastly more both in terms of quality and quantity. If he had wanted to train them in the use of these techniques then he would have. On another note, Goku was witness to Krillin attempting the Kienzan on Oozaru Vegeta. He could already sense Ki at the time so he should have discerned what was coming. And in fact, having reviewed the occasions where Goku used Taiyoken against Vegeta and Tenshinhan used it on Jackie Chun, the length was about the same -- i.e. about 3-4 pages of proactive effect. I couldn't find anything that was noticeably different between the two users' light emission in the manga which is ironic considering what the Daizenshuu has to say about the technique.
Taiyou-Ken [Fist of the Sun]
First Appearance: Chapter 124
Category: ki manipulation
People: Tenshinhan, Krillin, Son Goku, Cell
Special Characteristics: A Tsuru-sen School technique. Tenshinhan first used it during his fight with Goku at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai [he actually first uses it against Jacky Chun]. Gathering ki in his upper body, he converts it to light energy and radiates it out in front of his face. Blinding the opponent’s eyes, this is used when retreating from battle.
The amount of light is connected to the strength of the person’s ki, and the light source will become stronger the more ki the user has. The first person from outside the Tsuru-sen School to use this technique was Goku. (Daizenshuu 4, p.113)
Can you provide a pictorial citation for this? Piccolo was killed a total of two times throughout Z. The first instance of revival occurred with the usage of the first wish during the Freeza arc by Gohan and Krillin. The second happened years later in the Buu arc when Dende and the Namekians revived everyone killed by Buu. He was never resurrected by Shenron. Although one possible explanation for the turn towards Porunga could have something to do with the chronological dating of the previous time the Earth's Dragonballs had been used. It had been only four months between Freeza's resurrection and his attack on Earth; the need for an immediate resurrection would account for the usage of Namek's Dragon Balls instead of waiting through the remaining eight months before Earth's become active again.
No one has ever suggested such a tactic because the writers are set on a more conventionally predictable and methodical storytelling path. I again refer to my citation of Akkuman never being used or seen again despite his technique having the potential to thwart any menace that's incapable of regeneration. The circumstances are different, admittedly, but we do have a precedence for Dragonballs being used outside of their intended habitat when the Namekians allowed the earthlings to revive their friends on Earth. I don't see anything prohibiting the group from taking them into the future. By the way, if Goku from mid-DB era has the reflexes to leap upwards and catch a Dragonball then it should be nothing for the current cast to swipe them all before they disperse. The Dragonballs can be returned to the past afterwards and they'll become usable again in a year's time.
Endangering the world's future by having less capable bodies to stave off the enemy is more repugnant than a volunteer choosing to act of their own volition. I find it more questionable that Goku is willing to expend precious time trying to learn an ability he doesn't have to learn while in the process risking Trunks' life in the future instead of trusting someone else who already knows the technique to complete the task instead.
I know Kaioshin isn't because the writers are single-mindedly intent on having only Goku, Vegeta, and Future Trunks retain prominent roles in the defeat of the antagonists for this arc. That was merely a possibility suggested for an alternative method in approaching the Mafuba's role in the upcoming final battle and dealing with the aftermath -- nothing more than a hypothetical.
seriously how are sites keep getting away with this and keep getting propped up by Google?
